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Quest for a hearing safe deer rifle

7,785 Views | 31 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by normaleagle05
CS78
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Been working on this for a while. Started off with a .357 and handloading 180-200 grn bullets and sending them subsonic through a 16" barrel and 9mm can. Sound level was excellent. Similar to a suppressed subsonic 22. We shot some deer in the head out of the bow stand but never felt it had the power to attempt body shots.

From there moved to a Ruger American with 16 barrel in 450 bushmaster and a liberty cosmic. Nice light setup but even subsonic it was simply too loud. The combined larger bore and shorter barrel were just too much.

Decided to move to a single shot to save action length with a long barrel. Started with plans for a Ruger #1 in 45-70 but they are just so big/heavy. Then I ran in to a Browning 1885 Highwall in 454 casull with a 28" barrel. Less weight, more barrel, less case capacity. Perfect!

Worked up a load for it that is going to be brutal. Noise is not much more than a suppressed subsonic 22 but it makes a hell of a racket when the bullet impacts. 385 grn lead .454 airgun bullet sized down to .452. The airgun bullets are made with large cavities and soft lead so they expand at low velocity. Powder is 8.0 grns of Hodgdon Titegroup. Velocity consistent at 1064, 1069, and 1049. Next step is accuracy testing.

All my feeders are set at 50-75 yards. T&P to the first doe that walks out on Nov. 2nd.





txrancher69
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AG
Very nice rig, you're doing it right. For the ultimate subsonic expanding bullet look at Engel Ballistic Research, www.ebrammo.com I'm using the "Reaper" in .308 and results are tremendous. It really expands like they claim, every time, all the time. No more subsonic holes punched in animals.
So three conspiracy theorists walk into a bar.................You can't convince me that's a coincidence.
ConstructionAg01
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AG
Wish I could have seen the look on your 'smith's face when you asked him to thread the end of your 1885 Highwall barrel for a suppressor.

I never would have thought to go with a 454 Casull. Very nice!
dr_boogs
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AG
POTD material right here. Thanks for sharing! Be sure to post some pics once deer season arrives.
schmellba99
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AG
Only problem with HPs at subsonic velocities - penetration is poor. You have a fair amount of mass behind it, but you may still find lack of good penetration.

With that caliber, a hard cast flat point will knock a deer sideways and get good penetration.
CS78
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I'm thinking there's enough mass there that it wont be a problem. I was blowing through a treated 4x4 and a treated 2x12 when load testing. I should have the chance to test it on some hogs soon. If it doesn't make it all the way through them, I'll see if the gun will stabilize an even heavier hollowpoint and if not will come back down to a sold flat nose.
schmellba99
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AG
Good call testing on a pig. Sounds strange, but projectiles react way different to flesh than they do solid objects, so the 2x4 and 4x4 don't mean much outside of accuracy. I know that if you want to hunt deer with lever guns in pistol calibers (.357, .45, etc.) that HP's are not the best round for it because they expand and give up energy way too fast. Again, you have a bit more mass, but I'd test heavily first - and pigs are a great medium.
C4D
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AG
Thats intense man.

I bet the impact sounds like a wooden bat to a birch tree.
High shoulder might roll them to the next county.
SanAntoneAg
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AG
Ear muffs?
GottaRide
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S
I applaud your research, resourcefulness, determination, and outcome. I hate what you did to that fine rifle, though.
CS78
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GottaRide said:

I hate what you did to that fine rifle, though.
It did feel a little disrespectful. Not too bad though with it being a newer production gun. You have to think if JMB was still around he would be proud to see his first design paired with modern technology and still in use.

A little update for anyone that might use this info for future reference. Went ahead and seated the bullet down to 1.755 overall length, and was able to drop powder down to 7.6 grns of titegroup and maintain average velocity of 1045. Pretty sure this will be my final load. 4 shot group at 25 yards showed sufficient accuracy. Next step is shooting 50-75 yards and finding a little piggy to test it on.

BCStalk
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I like it
CS78
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Took advantage of the cloudy afternoon and went to go sweat it out in the blind. Not the boar I was looking for but a decent one. 75 yard shot. Didn't take a step.

Head was down eating quartered towards me. Entrance high in front of shoulder.



Small exit behind opposite shoulder.

Charismatic Megafauna
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AG
that's cool! And looks like it shoots awesome! Bet the recoil is pretty light too with that load, despite the heavy projectile.
CS78
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NRD09 said:

that's cool! And looks like it shoots awesome! Bet the recoil is pretty light too with that load, despite the heavy projectile.
Recoil is minimal. A lot of that has to do with the heavier gun though. I was pretty surprised that the 450 bushmaster and subsonic 425 grns had a pretty good thump but the Ruger American doesn't weigh much.
CS78
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When we left, I moved the camera so it was watching the dead hog to see what would show. Nothing too crazy except the volume of buzzards. The first one showed up around 11am the next morning. The carcass was 90% eaten by sunset. Coyotes and hogs hit it during the night and the only thing left by the next morning was hair.

Turkey Vulture coming in hot.

CS78
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I held off on bow hunting this season because we never see any good bucks that early and so I could save my doe tags for some rifle projects. Took the high wall to the bow blind this afternoon to pop a doe. Entry was dead center from the front. Bullet stuck in the skin after about 30 inches of penetration. She ran about 30 yards with a blood trail comparable to an expandable broadhead. Think this will be my go to for hunting the rut this year.







CS78
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50 yard high shoulder shot. Shoulder, spine, shoulder, exit.



agsalaska
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AG
That is 100% totally awesome.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
Bradley.Kohr.II
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AG
Is there a reason you didn't go with a 45-70? I think the cowboy loads are usually subsonic 405 gr, aren't they?

Does trailboss produce too much gas to suppress well?
CS78
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A few reasons. I already had a bunch of projectiles for 45 colt/ 450 bushmaster. Same ones work in casull. I really like the bullet Im using now but Im going to get back with the seller and see if he'll pour some closer to pure lead. They are 2% tin, 2% antimony, 96% lead. As you can see from the recovered bullet, they didn't expand as much as I'd like.

More importantly I came across a steal of a deal on the high wall.

45/70 will work fine but be aware that no factory .458 projectile is going to expand at subsonic speed. Would something like the factory cowboy loads work on deer even without expansion? Im sure they'd be just fine in a lot of cases. Some of the custom lead guys can help you with .458s that will expand if you will be loading. If your can is sealed make sure you understand what shooting non jacketed bullets through it means.

Trailboss suppresses well. I gave it a shot through the 454. A full volume load was 8 grns. I knew it would be a light load but it only chronoed at 616 fps. It was crazy Hollywood quiet though. If you did go 45/70, trailboss would be what you would want to help fill up the large case volume.
Proc92
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Little off the topic, but thought you would get a kick outta a silenced .45 air gun that can push 300 grain bullets 950fps.

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/AirForce_Texan_LSS_457_Cal_w_Carbon_Fiber_Tank/5054

520 grain bullets at just under 800fps.

CS78
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That's a pretty impressive air rifle. Ive considered getting one but didn't want to mess with the tank and everything. Last I checked they were pretty loud and heavy. Looks like they're making rapid improvements to that.

CS78
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Got another round of bullets delivered with a softer mix. 2% tin, 98% lead. Cameras have shown a nice boar showing up every night between 800pm-130am. Decided I'd settle in 75 yards from the feeder until the solar lights start to die down. About 1015 my motion detector goes off but the lights are fading. Can barely make out his silhouette but get an angled away shot that I know will work. Entrance was further back than I wanted. No exit but the bullet obviously did its job up through the vitals. He ran about 35 yards. Super fun shooting stuff with this setup. 4 shots..2 deer, 2 hogs. "pfffft.......WHACK!!!!"







CS78
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While admiring my prior kill with my bullet buried somewhere in that hunk of nasty, I came to the conclusion that the kids really needed a metal detector. Thanks to TH36 for recommending an affordable but decent detector.

The buzzards and yotes made quick work of the edibles. A few quick sweeps with the detector to locate what I thought was my bullet. But I instantly recognized it as one of the disk that's in a Winchester pdx1 .410 load. Somebody was severely under gunned! A little more looking and I found my bullet. Better expansion but it obviously tumbled. Dont know if it might have been unstable prior to impact so going to do some longer range paper testing.



Watchful Ag
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AG
This thread is so impressive. Maybe I missed it somewhere, but why not just go with something like a .300 AAC Blackout?
JSKolache
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AG
Or buy a blackout and save $$??
CS78
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The internet is filled with 1st hand accounts of subsonic 300 blackout resulting in lost deer. Its limited by being 30 caliber and around 220 grain. Most loads dont expand and the copper projectiles that have huge expansion suffer badly from low sectional density and lack of penetration. At subsonic speeds, it just cant compete with a large caliber, heavy hunk of lead.
Watchful Ag
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AG
Makes sense.

I think I'd enjoy the maneuverability of my .300 BLK pistol in addition to being magazine fed - especially for the piggys. If I ever decided to shoot a deer with mine, I'll probably try to treat it like I'm bow hunting. Double-lungs, and nothing further than 50 yards. Not that I shoot 50 with my bow

Excited to see your long range testing!
CS78
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Definitely an advantage to a semi auto for open area pigs. All my feeders are tucked in to the woods so never get the chance for more than one shot on anything. Theyre set up so mature bucks feel comfortable coming to a feeder in the daylight. Im also a fan of short handy guns but just don't notice an advantage in box blinds. Im actually in the process of swapping my kid friendly deer rifle over from a 12" 6.5 Grendel to 20". I have another 1885 highwall in 270 WSM that Im going to thread for my main deer rifle because I like this setup so much.
swampstander
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AG
Not sure how I missed this. I have an integrally suppressed Ruger 77/44. Somewhat pertinent to this thread I did some pretty extensive testing of projectiles when I first got it. I wanted to stick with jacketed bullets and 300 grains were the largest I could find without going custom. Below is a picture of some of that research with the 300 grain bullets. The target was water soaked magazines hanging in a box by dowels lightly touching, and then packed in tightly. Shots were taken at 25 yards. The Nosler looks like a huge fail but I'm here to tell you that no pig that was shot in the vitals gave a damn about the jacket separation. All died within sight, most fell over in a heap. This is true for all of the bullets represented. Muzzle velocity is about 1050 FPS.


CS78
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A buddy has been after this heavy 9 for the last two seasons. He drove back to town mid last week for a four day hunt. Cameras showed his deer had been through but only in the dark. Knowing this was a solid 6-7yo deer, I talked him in to hunting with this gun for the true test. I knew from the hogs that it should get it done just fine and the shots from this stand are all within range. The morning started slow. Seemed the rut was winding down. The does more at ease again. Around 9:00am, his deer pops out in a spot where nothing ever comes from. Ive gotten 100 pictures of this deer in the last two years and never seen him in person. Now, as if finally scripted in, he just appears for my buddy on the first morning of the hunt. I ID'ed him quick. "That's your deer" followed by a shot that "sounded good". Like he shot a watermelon. But the deer acted like nothing was wrong. He trotted off about 30 yards and hopped a fence like a bad dream. We both looked at each other like "what just happened". I could see that he stopped as soon as he got out of the open but didnt know for sure what he did from there. We gave him 15 minutes and then snuck out to go eat breakfast and try not to think about it. On returning, he had not taken another step from where he was last seen. A double lung shot a little far back that took a little longer to take affect. Ive seen deer act exactly the same way with the same shot from a bow. The bullet did not exit but you could see the lump under the skin.



Entrance side.



Exit



The recovered bullet speaks for itself! Over 2x expansion while maintaining the shank to drive penetration.





normaleagle05
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AG
That's a perfect lead mushroom.
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