If you own mineral rights to a piece of property, but not the actually land, does the land owner or the mineral rights holder own the water rights? And this is not surface water, this is water that would be drilled for and used for fracking.

Surface owner....

Hmm, good to know. We've been approached by Pioneer, they have offered to buy our mineral rights on some property we sold about 4 years ago. We found out last week that the person who bought the land from us just sold it to pioneer, and now they want our mineral rights. We were also told that they wanted to drill for water to use for fracking, but if water is not apart of our minerals, I wonder if the water is what they are after.

....are they wanting to "lease" your mineral interests or outright purchase them?

Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess

What?

Texas landowners have some of the worst eminent domain and mineral rights laws of all 50 states. Every two years our farm and ranch groups try to pass better legislation for landowners. Problem is that many of our rhino legislators and elected officials are soon taking the big money after getting elected. We had a great eminent domain bill that easily passed both the house and senate in 2007 { hb2006 } iirc, after the session closed, the governor refused to sign it into law, at the GREAT SUPRISE TO ALL THOSE who had voted for it and those who had worked tirelessly to get it passed. He followed the golden rule- those with the most gold make the rules.

Every two years since great efforts have been made but little of legal significance has passed...

Prior to leasing the mineral interest, would it be possible for the surface owner to transfer the ground water rights to a seperate entity ?

If so, would this strip the oil company lessee of any right to a reasonable use of the water without first dealing with the entity owning the separate water rights?

I.e. The oil company would get minerals from one entity and water use from another entity.

Hope the questions make sense.

There have been a lot of discussions over the years about the mineral interest trumping the surface interest on this board. Especially when the mineral and surface interest have different owners.

It's all a function of the leasing agreement. If for example you own the minerals and surface on 40 acres. You can lease your mineral interest and a term of that contract can prohibit surface activity. Likewise, "I think" you could cover no ground water usage. Maybe queso can address that once he gives up pursuit of that bad pickup driver via his bicycle.

Back to the OP, "I don't think" an operator would be able to produce ground water and utilize it for fracking wells off lease....unless it was so stipulated in the contract.

ItsA&InotA&M said:

---

Prior to leasing the mineral interest, would it be possible for the surface owner to transfer the ground water rights to a seperate entity ?

If so, would this strip the oil company lessee of any right to a reasonable use of the water without first dealing with the entity owning the separate water rights?

I.e. The oil company would get minerals from one entity and water use from another entity.

Hope the questions make sense.

---

Maybe I'm not understanding. But if I am, the easier thing would be to simply reserve the groundwater rights in the lease. I do that for clients all the time.

Edit for: one would want to be careful of conveying the water rights to a separate entity and then signing a lease where you warrant title to matters contained in the lease. That could be considered fraud or at the very least a breach of warranty. So much cleaner just to reserve the groundwater.

sunchaser said:

---

There have been a lot of discussions over the years about the mineral interest trumping the surface interest on this board. Especially when the mineral and surface interest have different owners.

It's all a function of the leasing agreement. If for example you own the minerals and surface on 40 acres. You can lease your mineral interest and a term of that contract can prohibit surface activity. Likewise, "I think" you could cover no ground water usage. Maybe queso can address that once he gives up pursuit of that bad pickup driver via his bicycle.

Back to the OP, "I don't think" an operator would be able to produce ground water and utilize it for fracking wells off lease....unless it was so stipulated in the contract.

---

Haha! I just did

And the laws make perfect sense: how do you get to the minerals if you can't use the surface?

ItsA&InotA&M said:

---

Prior to leasing the mineral interest, would it be possible for the surface owner to transfer the ground water rights to a seperate entity ?

If so, would this strip the oil company lessee of any right to a reasonable use of the water without first dealing with the entity owning the separate water rights?

I.e. The oil company would get minerals from one entity and water use from another entity.

Hope the questions make sense.

---

i mainly represent E&P companies, but for some folks I'll do mineral or surface owners' protections for a lease or purchase of minerals. You can define their ability to use water in a mineral lease or deed, and prior to granting a lease or deed, you can also transfer those rights to another entity, yes. if the transfer is recorded properly, will bind a subsequent lessor or purchaser.

(not legal advice to be relied on, just trying give general help)

Mas89 said:

---

Texas landowners have some of the worst eminent domain and mineral rights laws of all 50 states. Every two years our farm and ranch groups try to pass better legislation for landowners. Problem is that many of our rhino legislators and elected officials are soon taking the big money after getting elected. We had a great eminent domain bill that easily passed both the house and senate in 2007 { hb2006 } iirc, after the session closed, the governor refused to sign it into law, at the GREAT SUPRISE TO ALL THOSE who had voted for it and those who had worked tirelessly to get it passed. He followed the golden rule- those with the most gold make the rules.

Every two years since great efforts have been made but little of legal significance has passed...

---

i disagree strongly with that, we do E&P work in about 17 states, and texas is not the worst by far.

jurisprudence has drifted towards E&P companies a bit on mineral rights, but if you get a decent lawyer before signing a lease/deed, you can define whatever you want and generally make it stick.

I HATE the Eminent domain laws in texas, but they are better than most places. Hell, I have obtained injunctions against local governments and stopped projects, and won judgments against them using our 'new' emininent domain laws, so they are workable, if not what I PERSONALLY would view as constitutional.

what is SHOCKING to me is the blatant disregard some local government officials have for ethics, citizens, law, their own legal budgets, or *following* the eminent domain laws. But, like i said, i've made them pay.

If you think about the horizontal aspects of say the Eagle Ford where your units are 600 acres or so you can work around small tracts.

Likewise you may see an entire 600 acre unit with no surface activity. You make a deal with someone outside the unit for a large pad area and start your drilling there. Once you cross the unit stand off line you are horizontal in the pay zone giving you a longer lateral than you can achieve from an inside pad.

TSCRA magazine THE CATTLEMAN, SUMS IT UP BEST ON PAGE 34 of July 2018 edition
'' THIEVES who masquerade as bureaucrats and do-gooders are conspiring to strip you of your water rights, your property rights and your land, all in the name of progress''

I think those of us who have had negative experiences with production activities on our land will forever have a different opinion on this than those who work in the industry. But great to respectfully disagree.

I own some property but none of the minerals. There is a saltwater disposal well on the property and I receive the revenue the oil companies pay to dispose of water in it. It's been great for me. The field that used my SWD well is being abandoned and so the revenue has dried up and I am working with the contractor about P&A'ing the well.

Mas89 said:

---

TSCRA magazine THE CATTLEMAN, SUMS IT UP BEST ON PAGE 34 of July 2018 edition
'' THIEVES who masquerade as bureaucrats and do-gooders are conspiring to strip you of your water rights, your property rights and your land, all in the name of progress''

I think those of us who have had negative experiences with production activities on our land will forever have a different opinion on this than those who work in the industry. But great to respectfully disagree.

---

I don't disagree that many people have bad experiences. But the reality is this is one area that you can do well with, IF YOU HIrE the right lawyer. The laws the,selves are pretty good. Most E&P companies are really good people, compared to many other consumer businesses. And some are bad. But either way, the law is there to help you if you need it. Which is NO LONGER TRUE in many areas of law. Special interests have changed the laws and destroyed the power of a judge and jury to make it right. Not so in Ed or oil and gas.

sunchaser said:

---

....are they wanting to "lease" your mineral interests or outright purchase them?

---

Sorry, I was driving back to the metroplex from Midland. Pioneer has offered to outright purchase our mineral rights. I guess my question is, if they are already the land owner (which they are as of this year), and you don't need the mineral rights for the water, why would they want to buy the mineral rights? I have to assume there is more than just water they are after if they want the mineral rights correct?

The low hanging fruit always gets picked first.

Personally, that's not anything I would consider. They are going to have a strong knowledge base of the area. If a company can come into a prospective area and purchase the mineral interest for bonus type money they have picked the fruit....twice.

Bonus money can be good in a competitive leasing play but it's a one time thing just like the sales proceeds from the mineral purchase. As a previous posted stated the millionaires are those that retained their mineral interest and were fortunate enough to have oil and gas production. That's where the money is and that's why people want it.....