Is anyone knowledgeable on paleo points?

I am fairly certain that the smaller one on the right is a Plano point, maybe a Plainview or Midland type? I found it near Brady, TX while tracking a wounded deer several years ago.

I'm less sure about the larger one on the left. If it's not a projectile point I figured it may be a scraping tool. The apparently broken tip leaves a fairly wide, flat surface that would allow you to lay your pointer finger on while grasping the sides with your thumb & middle finger while applying pressure for cutting or scraping purposes.

I have no idea, but I think it's pretty cool you found them and are posting up about them.

On the left is a scraper. Right is possibly a dart point.

My opinion is that it is not paleo. Lateral flaking and basal grinding are characteristics of the paleo artifacts I have seen. I've found two points on the surface identical to yours. I'll ask two of my buddies that are much more knowledgeable than myself. Just an opinion. Congrats on your finds though.

I find it interesting that three of the most famous paleo points: Plainview, Folsom, and Clovis, are all from a small area of Texas/New Mexico.

Rhwill1973 said:

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My opinion is that it is not paleo. Lateral flaking and basal grinding are characteristics of the paleo artifacts I have seen. I've found two points on the surface identical to yours. I'll ask two of my buddies that are much more knowledgeable than myself. Just an opinion. Congrats on your finds though.

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There's a lot of subjectivity in this statement.

OP, you looking at stuff that is most likely in the 1500-3500 year old range with the scraper being very hard to give a determinate age on.

*I'm not an archeologist.

rather be fishing - by chance did you attend the artifact show in Fredericksburg this past weekend? Or not really into that sort of thing? I understand your opinions on digging and not trying to stir the pot. I made the show. Lots of different types of people there. From people simply displaying their collections to guys selling artifacts. I enjoyed seeing all of the Texas artifacts as 99% were Texan. I purchased a couple very nice pieces from one of the most well respected and knowledgeable individuals in the field. I am genuinely interested in your opinion on that. And I do realize there are some really bad eggs out there. I'm just saying the buying/selling/collecting as a whole. You seem to be knowledgeable and are passionate on this subject. When you get a chance, share your thoughts.

I look at artifacts the way I do wildlife for the most part. I appreciate artifacts for what the historical significance. I wouldn't ever seek out a profit frim something like that, but I don't have much problem with someone else selling their finds. I didn't even know there was a show in Fredericksburg.

My big rub is the people that sell dig opportunities to people. I don't like the ethics of that kind of stuff.

Cool. Appreciate the feedback. I'm not a seller, but love to collect and appreciate artifacts. I have had my eyes opened to ethics with digging mainly with the guys running the digs. Feel free to bounce ideas, thoughts, etc. off of me anytime.

Actually, they are named for the area where they were first found, but are not limited to that area. For example, Clovis points have been found throughout North and South America.

rather be fishing said:

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My big rub is the people that sell dig opportunities to people. I don't like the ethics of that kind of stuff.

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My old man and I always had places to dig, but we set up agreements with landowners for full access. We did not sell ANY part of our collections, finds, sublease spots....or even disclose its location. Is that what you mean, or is there another element to digging that people do now that is a thing?

I don't really know much about arrowheads, but I tried comparing to online examples. I found this website interesting: http://www.projectilepoints.net/

To me, the picture I posted looks most like one of these types of points:

http://www.projectilepoints.net/Points/Midland.html
http://www.projectilepoints.net/Points/Milnesand.html
http://www.projectilepoints.net/Points/Cleburne.html

BrazosDog02 said:

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rather be fishing said:

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My big rub is the people that sell dig opportunities to people. I don't like the ethics of that kind of stuff.

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My old man and I always had places to dig, but we set up agreements with landowners for full access. We did not sell ANY part of our collections, finds, sublease spots....or even disclose its location. Is that what you mean, or is there another element to digging that people do now that is a thing?

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You can probably go search craigslist and find someone offering day lease situations to dig in known procurement sites.

Yes, pay digs are a thing. $250 for a screen dig where a skid steer dumps load after load on a screen table and $100 for hand digging is not uncommon these days.

Thanks for posting that site.

raidernarizona said:

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Yes, pay digs are a thing. $250 for a screen dig where a skid steer dumps load after load on a screen table and $100 for hand digging is not uncommon these days.

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Ughhhhh....I rememebr spending hours carefully crafting garden tools into specialized diging implements and systems to do everything possible to preserve all artifacts. Cant even imagine how many damaged points would come from that dumpster fire. I had no idea that was a thing.

Then again, I ran into a lady that owned a piece of land neat the petrified forest that sold wood for dirt cheap that they dig out with a loader. She's selling museum quality stuff. So...it does happen.

Definitely not paleo. Just typical archaic bits and pieces. I investigated/dug Indian midden sites on a Brady ranch a few years ago for the land owner, Joe Evridge (Aggie C/O '68 if I remember.) He and his wife own an antique store in town. Wonderful people and beautiful place. Stuff like yours is pretty common in those parts.

And as was posted, Clovis stuff is nationwide. Plainview and all its variations is too. Folsom is mostly a Western US thing (east of the Great Basin). I've studied Clovis in California and Nevada for many years. The biggest Clovis site anywhere is the Gault Site outside Florence, TX and is stewarded by the Gault School of Archaeological Research at TSU. There are regular tours even though the excavation is back-filled now. They like visitors though.