Have any of you had back surgery lately? I have been told I need L5-S1 fusion, but is scares the He11 out of me because for the only folks I know that have had it didn't go well. Problem is the only people i know that have had back surgery had it 10+ years ago from what I consider low end hack doctors. Would like to hear experiences of folks who have had it recently and their opinions/outcomes.

Also listening because I have an extruded disc on L5-S1 that hasn't responded to steroid injections.

IIRC, Tree Hugger had a fusion done in the last couple of months, but I'm not sure how often he checks the OB. Hopefully he'll be along soon to give you some thoughts.

Have either of you tried Turmeric Curcumin?
It won't fix a physical problem but may help with inflammation causing pain.
I have a friend with RA and this gives her more time between injections.
Best of luck to you, back pain sucks.

Mr Dubi had his neck fused at C5-6/6-7.

He procrastinated doing it for several years and was losing feeling in his hands. Finally he took the plunge about 5 years ago and life is so much better. If you are in constant pain, then you need to do this IMO.

Email in profile if you want to ask him any question. Are you in BCS? He can recommend a neurosurgeon.

I had a herniated disc fixed by Dr. Richard Harper out of the Neurosurgical group of Texas. They are located in the Houston Med center and its a group of 5 docs that specialize in the back/neck/nerve system. I was 19 when I had the surgery back in 2012. He swore off steroid shots (all they do is cover the pain and don't actually fix the issue). He said when I am in my 40s or 50s I will probably have to have a fusion done.

I went home the same day of surgery but a fusion I would think they keep you over night. I haven't had any issues since my surgery. I highly recommend him. My brother-in-law's mom had surgery on her neck done by the same group and has not had any issues with hers.

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but a fusion I would think they keep you over night.

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Nope. Mr Dubi did his fusion as day surgery.

I'm not a doctor.

Back surgery is one of the most over-prescribed procedures in America. I think the data will show that there are hundreds (thousands?) of unnecessary back surgeries done each year, with vertebral fusions likely leading the way.

This is not to say that if you are having neurological issues which have been unresolved with more than just a token trial of alternative treatments (like physical therapy), you shouldn't have the procedure done. Instead, I'm only reinforcing that you're doing the right thing by asking this question.

Have you received more than one medical/surgical opinion? Where are you located?

My fiancee had it done about a year ago, but it was not L5-S1, it was two of the Ls, maybe L4-L5 I think. Everything went well!

She was down for about two weeks. No complications, etc...

Good luck OP.

I'm not a doctor either and I'm not telling you not do get surgery,

BUT been hearing and reading some amazing things regarding stem cell therapy as an alternative treatment.

AgEng06 said:

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IIRC, Tree Hugger had a fusion done in the last couple of months, but I'm not sure how often he checks the OB. Hopefully he'll be along soon to give you some thoughts.

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I had T12 to L2 fusion on December 22. Doc initially said he may have to add another on with end (T11 to L3), but ended up just doing one on either side of the fractured vertebra.

I had the surgery on Friday afternoon, stood for the first time a little after midnight (my drain tube came unplugged so I bled all over the sheets and I chose to stand rather than be rolled around while still in the bed). I was walking around the hospital with a cane by Saturday morning and went home on Sunday around lunchtime.

4.5 weeks later, I'm still restricted on activity, but I walk 1.5 to 2 miles most days on my treadmill at a grueling 2.0 mph pace (sarcasm intended). I really can't lift anything yet and some movements send up some pretty nasty shooting pains depending on what I'm attempting to do. All-in-all, I'm happy with the progress, I just wish I could do more physical things right now. I keep over doing it and just completely wear myself out with seemingly normal activities, but it's still early in the process. I'm really missing getting in my kayak and going to the lake to fish, but I don't think I can really do much paddling right now.

OP- check out the doc I linked on your post on the Houston board.

I had a diskectomy in L5-S1 about 5 years ago. It started hurting again last year and back doctor wanted to do another diskectomy and then potentially a fusion.

I didnt want to and went to a pain management doctor who did two guided (under anesthesia and he steers the needle with a scope). He injected an anti inflamatory directly into my sciadic nerve. First injection didnt really take because of all the scare tissue but the second injection was on the money.

I have been pain free for over a year.

Call this guy in BCS. My wife had a herniated disc, at age 30, and it was our last resort and worked. This guy was recommended by numerous people with some being on A&Ms medical sports staff.

Not a fusion but I was impressed from the moment I met him.

http://www.txbsi.com/about-us/our-officers-and-members/neurosurgery/gerard-toussaint

Listen to Dubi and also get 3-4 opinions, my L4 and L5 are herniated, two doctors said surgery, 1 said therapy. 5-6 weeks of therapy and I was fine, just needed to drop a few lbs and stretch daily.

Sheitemuslim (sp) frequents the health board and he is an orthopedic, I sent him my MRI and he also recommended therapy. He said he wouldn't do surgery until I did 8 weeks of therapy first.

KaneIsAble said:

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Call this guy in BCS. My wife had a herniated disc, at age 30, and it was our last resort and worked. This guy was recommended by numerous people with some being on A&Ms medical sports staff.

Not a fusion but I was impressed from the moment I met him.

http://www.txbsi.com/about-us/our-officers-and-members/neurosurgery/gerard-toussaint

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Dr Toussaint has a reputation for operating 100% of the time.

You want to see a surgeon who regularly says "no, surgery is not indicated". You need to try PT, pain management, etc.

Last March I had a total herniation at L5-S1 that almost completely closed off the foraminal canalfor the nerve and L4-L5 were bulging on the other side. I would not do a disectomy because you are removing material you can't get back without stem cells, and fusion was not a viable option because the bulging discs above would just herniate in a year or so. I ended up doing traction and physical therapy with a chiropractor I trust (went to school with my BIL), and have had two epidural steroid injections that included a few other drugs in the "cocktail" to reduce the size of the disc. The shots and the traction stretching have really helped me. I could not sit up in a chair and had to work on a laptop off the floor from March-June until I got my first shot. The second shot was this month and I am almost back to normal.

I would do a lot of research on alternative treatments before I consented to a fusion. Hopefully the FDA will approve mesenchymal stem cells for use soon.

And if your in the Houston area, do not even waste your time with Dr. Stanley Jones

dubi said:

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KaneIsAble said:

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Call this guy in BCS. My wife had a herniated disc, at age 30, and it was our last resort and worked. This guy was recommended by numerous people with some being on A&Ms medical sports staff.

Not a fusion but I was impressed from the moment I met him.

http://www.txbsi.com/about-us/our-officers-and-members/neurosurgery/gerard-toussaint

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Dr Toussaint has a reputation for operating 100% of the time.

You want to see a surgeon who regularly says "no, surgery is no indicated". You need to try PT, pain management, etc.

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This is the guy I recommended on the Houston board: http://www.houstonmethodist.org/doctor/bradley-weiner/

My L4/L5 and L5/S1 are herniated and they used to flare up regularly and would put me on my back for days. After talking with some ex-jock friends, one of whom had to retire from the A&M football team after being the #1 OL recruit in the country in our recruiting class, about the relatively minor surgery they've had on their back (microdiscectomy) I saw this guy a couple times over the years. My back was to the point where it would hurt often enough that I was considering surgery.

Dr. Weiner flat out told me that I was not a surgical candidate because the pain didn't radiate below the waist. Evidently that's a big indicator. He told me, "I'm a surgeon and I live to cut but I won't do it unnecessarily and you're not a surgical candidate." He's also an ex-jock himself having played a lot of rugby.

Anyway, he advised PT, exercise, etc. And (knock on wood) all that stuff has kept me going without a major incident or flare-up in a long time.

I replied to your previous thread in the Houston forum, but I would highly recommend this guy. He is in the Medical Center and did a great job on my C6-C7 fusion a few years ago.

http://www.houstonmethodist.org/doctor/subrata-ghosh/

Last April I had a discectomy on my L5/S1 disc that was herniated The disc was on several of my nerves and went from extreme pain to no feeling and loss of muscle control in my leg. When I woke up from the surgery I immediately felt better. No more pain, and I recovered 95% of the feeling in my leg and foot. I am by no means saying it's the right solution for everyone, just saying I had a positive experience. I was scared as hell before the surgery, but get a Doctor that makes you feel comfortable and takes time to go through everything with you.

Dont do it.

Not gonna go into a story as to why.
Believe me or dont. Its ur life

Dont mother fn do it

l4/l5 issues..for going on years now. It flares up now and then pretty bad so that I can't even stand straight. Had a few injections (just knocks it down for a week or so) and PT and was told to wait as long as possible. Doc said with the advanced that they're making right now that some major stuff is right around the corner and since I'm not getting radiating pain and the flare ups can be managed to just wait.

LoudestWHOOP! said:

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Have either of you tried Turmeric Curcumin?
It won't fix a physical problem but may help with inflammation causing pain.
I have a friend with RA and this gives her more time between injections.
Best of luck to you, back pain sucks.

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I take these for general health. Real inexpensive and in the vitamin section of Walmart.

big ben said:

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also get 3-4 opinions

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Best advise on this thread.

Outcomes w/spine stuff varies wildly. I'd advise against forming an opinion based on experiences of others on an online forum because of the nuance associated with your problem. Additonally, though well intended, there's a ton of misinformation in the general public as seen on this thread.

A couple of years ago I went to see a back surgeon at the recommendation of my family doctor. He gave me a name in San Antonio, one in Austin and one in Houston. He said these were the only ones he recommended and to stay away from anyone else. I forget the terminology, but basically it was calcium buildup impinging on the nerve, so they cleaned that up and touched up a few other things as a day surgery patient. Noticed a night and day difference immediately. When I went back to the family doctor and told him how great I felt he looked surprised and said "Really? Most people don't have that good of an outcome." He hadn't mentioned that before.

dubi said:

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KaneIsAble said:

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Call this guy in BCS. My wife had a herniated disc, at age 30, and it was our last resort and worked. This guy was recommended by numerous people with some being on A&Ms medical sports staff.

Not a fusion but I was impressed from the moment I met him.

http://www.txbsi.com/about-us/our-officers-and-members/neurosurgery/gerard-toussaint

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Dr Toussaint has a reputation for operating 100% of the time.

You want to see a surgeon who regularly says "no, surgery is not indicated". You need to try PT, pain management, etc.

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Not the case for us. Took over a year of injections and PT before he agreed. The wife had no feeing in her right leg and it was completely reversed after a 48 minute procedure. Walked out on her own 5 hrs later and went back to work within 6 days.

Maybe he does operate a lot, but maybe he's who people call when all else fails like us. I don't know the answer either way but have recommended him to several others and I can tell you the "thank yous" continue to roll in.

Go to Health and Fitness board and post this question. ShiiteMuslim should reply and I believe he is a Neuro. He gave me a great amount of good, practical advice as well as recs for surgeons. Lots of threads on this subject there as well.

I had an L5/S1 microdisectomy in March of 2016 and it was what I HAD to do, due to the unbearable nerve pain. Granted, this was after 3 epidural injections and 6 weeks of PT. Tried to avoid the knife at all costs, but in the end it was the right decision for me.

SLF11 said:

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Go to Health and Fitness board and post this question. ShiiteMuslim should reply and I believe he is a Neuro. He gave me a great amount of good, practical advice as well as recs for surgeons. Lots of threads on this subject there as well.

I had an L5/S1 microdisectomy in March of 2016 and it was what I HAD to do, due to the unbearable nerve pain. Granted, this was after 3 epidural injections and 6 weeks of PT. Tried to avoid the knife at all costs, but in the end it was the right decision for me.

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He replied on the other board.

Sorry your having back issues as there truly is nothing like back pain to make you hurt everywhere. I had back surgery last year. I chose a discectomy instead of fusion.
I went and had two MRI's with contrast and was given 3 opinions by back doctors before deciding what to do.
You are getting lots of info her on TA. A protruding or bulging disc is not a herniated disc. Herniated is when the inside (nucleus) of the disc has broken through the outside (annulus) of the disc and is prolapsed. This inside material can then push or fall on the large nerve ganglion that goes down the legs and other lower structures in the case of L-3 -L-5 -S1. This causes great pain usually down the legs into feet etc.
A discectomy removes the material that has broken through the annulus and is against the nerves, but it leaves the remaining disc material so you will still have some natural disc material between your vertebrae, albeit a smaller or flatter amount.
A fusion removes all the disc and that area is replaced with either your own bone material or a cadaver bone. You will have a metal cage and screws put in your spine after a fusion to stabilize the spine until the bone grows between and attaches to the two disc involved.
When you do a fusion the disc above and below will have more stress put on them due to the fused joint no longer can bend or twist.
They are now using some stem cell therapy along with the bone they use within a fusion. As of yet they can't use stem cells to grow a new disc. (Hopefully in the future?)
The United States is way behind in lower back research and procedures for artificial disc replacement compared to Germany and other countries. (To much money to be made in fusion surgery).
Steroid injections in the lower back are called epidural injections. They carry risk for sure as the needle is placed right next to the nerves and bathe that area with steroids in the hope that it will ease inflammation and allow a bulging disc to heal and get the pressure off the nerves causing the pain. They do not inject the nerve as one post said. If they hit the nerve you have huge problems...that is why they do the procedure with you sedated or under a scope to actually see the needle. They inject a deadening shot first, then a dye is injected so they can see where the needle with the steroids will go.
Sometimes these injections give relief, sometimes not.
Before any doctor will talk of surgery he should recommend at least 6 weeks to two months of therapy first as therapy oftentimes will allow a bulging disc to retract and heal.
Use a lot of caution going to a chiropractor without first having a MRI of your back.
Sorry for the long read but I have lived the back nightmare. I opted for a discectomy because at least I have a chance in the future for new technology with stem cell research or artificial disc advancements and will have the ability to take advantage of that because I still have part of my disc. With a fusion it is final...they cant remove the fusion at a later date.
It depends also on your lifestyle. If you are relatively young and physically active then I would put off a fusion as long as possible.
My sister was a cheerleader and very active in dancing, sports etc. She had a fusion on L-4-L-5 in 1975. She has now had a total of 8 back operations and is fused from L-5 to T-2. One fusion led to another. She is in constant pain and will be for her life.
Best thing is do your research, get multiple opinion's, do therapy and develop your core as much as possible and keep your weight managed. I would also suggest Orthopedic/Spine Specialist rather than Neurosurgeons for opinions...or talk with both.
Good luck and T&P's coming your way for healing.

What he said - nailed it. Wife had the disectomy (sp?).

Look at it as a positive, surgery is a positive. The last 6 years of he life, my dad walked around with 3 fractures in his neck and 3-4 in the rest of his spine. But due to the Ankylosing spondylitis and bone necrosis, he was not any kind of candidate for any bone related surgery other than amputation. So he walked around with a slightly broken neck and back that would not heal.

So surgery is a positive.

I had a severely herniated disc at L5-S1 that caused severe sciatic pain. It was crippling some days. I was 27 years old and just about needed a cane to walk. I had a laminotomy done (I believe the same surgery Tiger Woods had before this most recent fusion). and have been pain free for almost 8 years now. This wasn't a fusion, although the neurosurgeon told me the severity of the herniation was probably in the 98th percentile. A kindergartener could've read my MRI and noticed what was wrong as it was so obvious. The recovery was 6 months and probably a full year before I could run. It was immediate relief when I woke up in the recovery room.

C4D said:

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Dont do it.

Not gonna go into a story as to why.
Believe me or dont. Its ur life

Dont mother fn do it

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Stupid comments like this is why people stay in pain, lose nerve function, and even suffer paralysis. Not everybody needs surgery, and you are right to ask questions, but sometimes surgery is the right answer. I've had four spinal surgeries, two of which were fusions. Sometimes I have bad days, and I've been through physical therapy for pain management a number of times, but 11 years after my last fusion I'm still keeping up with four kids and haven't missed a day of work because of back pain.

There is not much movement in L5-S1,so a fusion is not that big of a deal. I went the epidural steroid route for my L5-S1 herniation and after several months of injections and being careful got almost totally pain free. For the neck, the steroids eventually quit working, so that's why I got a C5-C7 fusion.

I waited about 25 years oast the initial injury, so I do have some residual pain and weakness. But the loss of movement in my neck is not really noticeable considering how much that little movement caused pain prior to surgery.

Surgery should be considered after other treatment modalities have failed.

I work in post op recovery and see people almost daily who have immediate pain relief and regained strength and function.