I guess its vet question day (saw the thread on the facial growth)...

Have a nearly 17yr old doxie that doesn't get around very well. She had a "vestibular event" about 2 yrs ago and her gait / ability to get around hasn't been quite the same since. She's got a pretty serious limp in the front right leg and she's on a course of NSAID right now to try and help with her hind end. She acts like she's lost strength in her left rear leg. Which she probably has as she hasn't really exercised much since the vestibular event. She's not gained weight (big doxie problem) and was a heck of an athlete when younger - she could go toe to toe with any retriever when it came to chasing a tennis ball.

Question is whether or not something like Dasuquin or GlycoFlex might do her any good. I mentioned to the vet tech this morning while picking up meds (oh yeah, she's also epileptic) and vet tech basically said these other drugs couldn't hurt. Well, ok, but might they help?

Thoughts Docs? TIA

They will probably help some if the problem is osteoarthritis & not neurologic from the "vestibular event". Both the two you mentioned are reputable, but take a few weeks to really start helping.

(not a vet) We are dosing our 12 year old chocolate lab with Cosequin and it takes about a month to work and build up in the system or however it works, and now we are on the maintenance level. The good news is that she likes the pills, because if I had to force them on her daily I would find a different brand. The moist chewables are a winner as well.

Veterinary orthopedist here. Evidence to support an effect of glucosamine in dogs w OA is very weak. The most recent large placebo controlled study using activity monitors (like a Fitbit) found no difference between placebo and a very high quality glucosamine. So most folks that are reporting an effect in dogs are likely falling victim to placebo - in vet med we call it the caregiver effect and it is very real. Sorry for the news! But, you are correct it is very safe. And not all vendors glucosamine produce the same quality product. Cosequin/dasuquin is the best quality for dogs. Over the counter GNC tips preps are very low quality.

So when you're talking placebo in this instance are you still referring to a placebo effect on the dog itself? People nuturing/babying the dog so he feels better? Or mental placebo for the person? I.e., I spent money and have the dog meds, so I believe he must be feeling better?

The latter. The dog had no idea, it's the mental bias/perception of the pet owner. We call it the caregiver effect and up to 40% of pet owners who are unknowingly giving a placebo in a clinical trial will report dramatic improvement in their pet's activity when their dog is actually getting placebo. Couple of nice papers have documented this in small animal orthopedics. That's why it's so critical to do clinical trials with gait analysis (computer assessed outcomes) so the owner's and vet's bias are taken out of the equation.

Gracias. He's old though so I'll keep wasting money on Dasuquin for a little longer. Compared to the TPLO it seems cheap.

Besides, he thinks it's a treat that he gets and the other dogs don't so it makes him feel special.

No problem- hope to chase pheasant or grouse over your dogs someday!

A vet here. (NOT an orthopod though :-) My oldest dog has been on Dasuquin for about 8 years now, she's 12 now - had a CCL injury when she was 4 d/t previous trauma being HBC before I adopted her. She's done quite well on it, and I feel it helps mine and several of my clients have reported seeing a difference too. Maybe it is placebo, but it may help and it's not hurting, so I'd use it. I do recommend Dasuquin as well v. other cheaper brands. My mom's dog was on Dasuquin, then they switched to the Walmart brand, noticed he wasn't doing as well and then went back to Dasuquin.

I think glucosamine and high levels of omega-3 fatty acids help with arthritis.

Didn't want to start a whole thread on this but it seemed appropriate on this one.

I came across Alpha Dog Nutrition the other day being talked about in a Hunting Dog podcast. Would love to hear a vet's thoughts on whether or not this stuff would actually work for recovery during hunting season. It can't replace actual conditioning in a dog, but it might allow them to heal faster for the afternoon/next morning hunt.

https://alphadognutrition.com

Hey Doc, I'll hijack this thread a little with a related question. Am I doing my 3 year old chocolate lab any good by giving him a daily treat of Zukes Hip Action. It's a daily hip and joint treat of 300mg gluc and 50mg chon sulfate. As a preventave only. If you remember me, I had the yellow lab named Boomer that you guys took care of about 4 years ago. If that treat is not doing anything for him I'm gonna stop because it's not cheap. Thanks

Rockdoc - you bet of course I remember you and Boomer. The answer to your question is:

1) it isn't likely to hurt anything other than your wallet, which isn't a ringing endorsement for continuing to give any supplement

2) we have no evidence that suggests that giving daily glucosamine is preventative for joint problems such as arthritis later in life. Is it possible, sure, but we don't have any strong evidence as of 2017. These types of studies are very hard to do in small animal ortho/vet med. You have to account for confounding variables such as breed, size, age, obesity, activity and enroll large groups of dogs on a placebo control and the treatment (in this case glucosamine), then follow them for years with x-rays, gait analysis, client questionnaires, track how many of the dogs in each group go on to get ACL problems, hip problems, arthritis, surgery, are retired early, etc. Imagine how many dogs enrolled in a long-term lifetime study like this are lost to follow-up (owners move across country, dog gets loose and runs off, dog is hit by car and killed, dog dies of cancer, etc...). We are talking 500,000 dollars to 1 million dollars easy to get a study like this off the ground, likely would need to enroll 400-500 dogs per group because the difference between placebo and treatment is likely to be small.

Just a little explanation on why there are so few studies like this in small animal practice. We don't have access to $ to do these kinds of studies very often. We are doing our best but it's often just not realistic. Some companies are willing to put their products out there for shorter-term studies like this, but they are few and far between.

We have given Petthrive to my "senior" Lab for 2+ yrs...any comments on its formula/claims?
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Petthrive Soft Chews contain the active ingredients resveratrol and hyaluronic acid. Resveratrol supports bone and joint health by promoting a healthy inflammatory response in aging dogs. Hyaluronic acid sustains cartilage health as dogs grow older.

Will defer to dr. boogs if I'm wrong, but I don't think the hyaluronic acid will survive the digestive process and go to the joints.

Hey fishr! Unrelated but but ding dong of a Shepard mix has been itchy lately. Bathing her weekly with a good medicated shampoo the last two weeks. Went along time between baths before with no issues. She has some dandruff as well. Should I grab some fish oil for her? I did that for my lab but my god. The smell. She could clear a room.

Edit to say the itching started this summer. She's 5