I'm having a fence replaced. Fence builder had 811 come out and mark, twice. They started the fence Thursday afternoon, tore out the old fence and started setting posts. As they were digging the post holes they found an unmarked wire so they shut it down. The old fence was built around the wire but the new fence will be concreted in and have larger fence posts so they can't just put them in where the old ones were at. Wire is in the way.

I contacted 811 and they sent someone out Friday and again today. Centerpoint guy says it's not theirs. The guys that mark for ATT & Comcast (same company marks both) have both said they found both the ATT & Comcast wires and they don't know what the wire under my fence is. "If they had to guess" it's an Comcast old line but it's not shown on any of their maps or anything else they can find.

I've taken pictures and videos of the markings/flags in the yard with tape measure showing the distance to the fence line. Closest marking is 60" from the fence line and where the wire is.

So my question is what happens if we cut the wire to get the fence in? We've got emails from 811 showing they came out also the pictures. Worth cutting it? Anything else I can do to cover my ass besides pictures and emails in case it is still used by Comcast?

.Are you in a utility easement? Have you talked to a representative from each utility who has rights to that easement?

My understanding is if you called 811 and they didn't mark it that's on them.


/not a lawyer

I think you have fulfilled your responsibility. Build your fence and move on.

terradactylexpress said:

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My understanding is if you called 811 and they didn't mark it that's on them.


/not a lawyer

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Nope. You're still liable if they fail to mark their lines.

That being said, how is it not possible to leave the line intact and avoid it?

What wire????

Putting in a pipeline a few years ago, we hit 2 unmarked buried lines. They were abandoned lines. No one cared.

Chetos said:

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.Are you in a utility easement? Have you talked to a representative from each utility who has rights to that easement?

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This. It's likely abandoned, but do more than the minimum.

I'm a telecom engineer. What is the diameter and color of the sheathing? If enough is exposed, you should be able to read markings. If it is little finger sized or smaller, and buried a foot or less deep, it is probably buried abandoned CATV or telephone drop.

About as big around as my thumb. Black sheathing. Nothing written on it that I can see.

Centerpoint guy said it's not theirs. The first guy from the marking company said he thought it was an old Comcast cable. The junction boxes in my yard have Time Warner stickers on them? Maybe an old line?

They're marked the Comcast and ATT lines through the yard. They're marked 5 to 10 feet away from the line we found. The guy that came today and marked said he found both ATT & Comcast's line and didn't know who's line that would be as it wasn't on any of their maps or anything in their system.

Not sure where you are in the easement, but I had a somewhat similar encounter a few years ago.

Read the deed, measured for the easement, marked my posts, and a dude with a tractor was augering the holes.
They came up with wire and called me out from work.
The wire was not within the deeded easement, 811 was called and no flags.
It was the main telephone line for a whole bunch of folks downstream.
Verizon sent me bills for thousands of dollars.
I sent them evidence off the 811 call, and evidence their crap was not in their easement with a nice note to suck my appendage.

They sent a crew to reroute around my fence line, and I never heard any more from them.

Thats not a drop wire. It is a cable, 25 pair phone or catv coax feeder. I'd check with your county cad or GIS site for deed platslooking for a public utility easement.

Brush Country said:

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terradactylexpress said:

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My understanding is if you called 811 and they didn't mark it that's on them.


/not a lawyer

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Nope. You're still liable if they fail to mark their lines.

That being said, how is it not possible to leave the line intact and avoid it?

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I've never heard of anyone being held responsible for repairs of an unmarked line after 811 has been called and the prescribed time has elapsed. If it turns out the line belongs to someone 811 did not notify, that's on them, not the person making the 811 request.

Any push back from the LO and the other party typically shuts up.

terradactylexpress said:

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My understanding is if you called 811 and they didn't mark it that's on them.


/not a lawyer

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That's one of my questions for the upcoming dig-tess meeting.

One local guy was butting in a new fence around a house in a nearby town and couldn't get any reliable marking of some of the underground lines going to the house.

One family I know gets natural gas from some company I never heard of before. When someone went to do some work, that company didn't even bother to show up to mark their lines because they don't know where they are. As far as they are concerned, he knew that the lines were there and if he cut them it was his fault and responsibility.

So if you find something, don't cut it even if you don't know who it belongs to.

By the way, one local excavation company was doing some digging a few years ago and took out a fiber optic line. It turned out in his case that he did call 811 and they did mark the fiber optic lines. He was digging about 10 feet to the side and the fiber optic line was not where it was marked. So he didn't have to pay the enormous costs of repairing the line.

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One family I know gets natural gas from some company I never heard of before. When someone went to do some work, that company didn't even bother to show up to mark their lines because they don't know where they are. As far as they are concerned, he knew that the lines were there and if he cut them it was his fault and responsibility.

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In Hale County and a lot of the Panhandle, the landowners put in the natural gas distribution lines to the irrigation wells, not the company. This was in the 1950s and 1960s. Eventually, the company took over the lines, but there aren't a lot of good maps for the old lines.

Most of the time, the gas company just stands by on the upstream meters and lets you dig away. It's easier to repair the needed lines after they're cut than to mark them. And if you cut an abandoned line, no one cares.

I've always wondered about that, what happens if you hit something after something has been marked incorrectly or not at all after a one call.

I can tell you what happens if you explain to the right of way agent what types of vehicles will be driving on the road that runs over their line and when he shows up he decides he now doesn't like it. You get threatened with federal prosecution and your job shuts down until you build an air bridge.

if someone has the right to be there, you have no right to cut their stuff up...no matter what the circumstance. Cover your arse and find out who it is. Companies may choose not to pursue damages if they failed to mark it correctly, but it's still on you.

Remember guys there was a time before 811. The rights to operate in an easement (without damage) did not change with the locate laws. The locate laws simply require a utility to mark their stuff...it does not absolve an excavator of any liability. The intent of the 811 program is to prevent damage...not give you a loophole to tear someone's stuff up.

And play this game with a pipeline and you may not get a second chance.

Doc Hayworth said:

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Brush Country said:

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terradactylexpress said:

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My understanding is if you called 811 and they didn't mark it that's on them.


/not a lawyer

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Nope. You're still liable if they fail to mark their lines.

That being said, how is it not possible to leave the line intact and avoid it?

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I've never heard of anyone being held responsible for repairs of an unmarked line after 811 has been called and the prescribed time has elapsed. If it turns out the line belongs to someone 811 did not notify, that's on them, not the person making the 811 request.

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Well now you have. We had a residential job where we hit an att line. Turns out the locator was a day late on marking the lines (past 48 hrs), we didn't know and hit the unmarked line. Att filed a claim and said we failed to either 1) look for clear markings or 2) file a no response, before excavating. The claim was turned over to insurance, it was small and I'm not sure what eventually happened.

Long story short, there's nothing to stop a utility owner from filing a claim for damage regardless of who is actually "right and wrong", and how much effort you went to to avoid the damage. Fighting that claim is another story.