About a year ago, I bought 10 acres in Smith county. It is made up of 70% woods and 30% what I guess you'd call pasture. Grade ranges from relatively flat to a 40 degree slope. It had been neglected for at least 10 years prior to me purchasing. I've heard that ~30 years ago a guy grew watermelons there.

I've been mowing it since we bought it, but the pasture is still a mess. We've got (mowed over) blackberry bushes, a few wild rose bushes (holy 4 foot tap root..), a wide assortment of weeds, and tons of of sand burrs. And a little bit of grass. There are some bare sections as well with little vegetation at all. Soil is sandy. Lots of bumps and dips as well - they make mowing fun.

I need a plan to get the pasture back into shape. Everybody I talk to has a different recommendation about what to do though. Because of the grade I was going to put out some rye grass seed in the next week to help with erosion control. I've also been told to just till the whole thing and start over. Others have said to just do a pre-emergent in late February and then grass seed in the April/May time frame. But won't the pre-emergent keep the grass seed from germinating? If I till it, when is the best time to do that?

goats

CanyonAg77 said:

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goats

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Yea, I got 'Goats for dummies' for my birthday. Challenge is there is no water or fence out there at the moment. But once I move out there I was planning to get some goats to handle the steeper sections which I'll never be able mow.

Sounds like the makings of a new goat ranch.

Grab an overhead off of Google Earth (or similar) and show us what you are talking about. Do you want to make it a lawn, or just clean it up a bit and grow some kind of forage grass out there?

Where in Smith County? Also, ask your local Ag Extension Agent for his recommendation. He or she will have good advice that is helpful for the soil/climate and what you want to accomplish.

This picture is about a year old. I've since had a guy with a mulcher come clean up the woods in the leftmost part a bit.

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Advice on cleaning up pasture

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buy a really big broom



in all seriousness, goats, cows, or sheep. Any grazing animal actually. It would be smart to get water setup, even if you arent living out there yet

Terk said:

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Grab an overhead off of Google Earth (or similar) and show us what you are talking about. Do you want to make it a lawn, or just clean it up a bit and grow some kind of forage grass out there?

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Definitely the latter - I'm not looking for a lawn, but it looks like crap right now.

This is in North Smith county - less than a couple miles from the Sabine I'd guess.

histag10 said:

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Quote:

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Advice on cleaning up pasture

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buy a really big broom



in all seriousness, goats, cows, or sheep. Any grazing animal actually. It would be smart to get water setup, even if you arent living out there yet

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The municipal water supply wanted just shy of $3k to install a water meter, which blew my mind.

When would I prefer sheep vs goats? I've heard goats for foraging (clearing brush I guess) and sheep for grazing, but maybe that is not correct.

First and foremost figure out what you want to do with it. I know that sounds goofy, but what is the purpose of the property as a whole? I know it's only 10 acres, but is it for wildlife? Do you want to run livestock? Do you just want to have a place you like and like to sit, have a beer and look at it?

It's your place so they are all viable, legitimate options. The only reason I say this is because if you're looking for a little bit of wildlife activities, what you currently have is probably better than what you might end up with. People grew up looking at coastal bermuda pastures, so they think that's what they're supposed to have. But you can spend a lot of time, effort, and money into establishing it.

...then they wonder why there are no critters in it. It's because (and I'll admit right here I LOATHE "improved" pastures) coastal bermuda is a vacuum for animal life. It sucks. Then again, if you want some cattle, or are looking to hay 2.5 acres then going that route probably is the best decision for you.

I say all that not to point you in a direction of where you should go, but rather to encourage you to figure out exactly what you want in the short term and long term before you go spending money and making changes.

The plan is to build there in the near term. And obviously have a beer and look at it too.

At 10 acres its not like I'll be doing any hunting. Leaving as it is now the wildlife I've seen seems to much prefer the woods anyway. As I mentioned I'm not looking to make a lawn, but it would be nice if the kids could walk around the top without getting covered in sand burrs. My goal for the pasture is primarily to get rid of the burrs and perhaps some of the other fast growing weeds. Planting grass (or whatever) would just help create more vegetation that would make it harder for those undesirables to establish themselves.

The woods I'm planning to leave alone, with the exception of making some trails.

I would like to get some goats eventually to help with the steeper sections.

I would spray the "pasture" section with 2-4d or some derivative of it. Now is the time to make a fall application, especially if you recently shredded it you will likely have fresh growth that will take in the herbicide killing most broadleaf and leaving grass. if it is in really bad shape likely need to do a spring application. In neglected pastures we have taken over it ususally takes 2-3 seasonal applications.

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When would I prefer sheep vs goats?

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What kind of rental options will these sheep and goats have?


Asking for a friend...

EagleFordEarl said:

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Quote:

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When would I prefer sheep vs goats?

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What kind of rental options will these sheep and goats have?


Asking for a friend...

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NOT FOR SEX!

LET THE MAN SPEAK FOR HIMSELF!!!

3K for a water meter isn't that bad, compared to what I have run across. Lot cheaper than going the well route.

On our lease, the owner has had both goats and now sheep. The sheep seem to be a lot calmer and he doesn't have near the number getting out, compared to the goats.

Very good, thanks. Like Skeet said, some general broadleaf herbicides are probably step #1, and it's probably a multi-year process on that for a couple of reasons... 1) nasty weeds tend to not be easy to kill; & 2) their seeds tend to be viable for a long time in the seed bank. Being that it's sandy they're going to want to re-generate pretty quickly, and you run some risk of erosion (sandy soil generally being pretty erodible). Talk to your local NRCS guys and see what the best grass cover in your area is. Water runs through sandy soils pretty fast, so something with deeper roots will be easiest to keep in good shape in the long term.

3k is pretty reasonable. Be glad you can get city water, rather than having to drill a well.

Also wanted to add it is best now to go ahead and bite the bullet with the city water meter now. chances of cost going down to have a meter installed or drilling a well are pretty slim.

Its actually a rural water co-op, not the city. Their approach to connecting a new customer was a lot different from the electric distributor who owns the power lines, who put in a new pole and transformer. The power guy said since they know the customer will be buying electricity from them basically forever they don't charge to install that stuff (yea, I'm still paying for it, but the rates are the same regardless of whether I have the pole installed or not). But yes you're right - its never getting cheaper. I'm planning to have them set the meter as soon as I have the cash.

For those who recommended goats:
I've talked to a couple folks who raise goats in the last six months, and all of them seemed like the goats were pets for them, and not working animals. They got kind of weird when I said I wanted them for clearing brush. Any advice for finding goat people who use them as working animals and not pets? Craigslist seems like such a crap shoot given that I don't know much about goats. Well, nothing really.

I've read cows would be a bad idea in your situation as they'll just eat all the "good" vegetation and leave you with nothing but all the junk.

And a well may very well be the much cheaper option in the long run if you plan on irrigating for livestock, a tank, etc. Also gives you much more freedom in drought situations vs being supplied by a co-op or municipality.

AggieEE2002 said:

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Its actually a rural water co-op, not the city. Their approach to connecting a new customer was a lot different from the electric distributor who owns the power lines, who put in a new pole and transformer. The power guy said since they know the customer will be buying electricity from them basically forever they don't charge to install that stuff (yea, I'm still paying for it, but the rates are the same regardless of whether I have the pole installed or not). But yes you're right - its never getting cheaper. I'm planning to have them set the meter as soon as I have the cash.

For those who recommended goats:
I've talked to a couple folks who raise goats in the last six months, and all of them seemed like the goats were pets for them, and not working animals. They got kind of weird when I said I wanted them for clearing brush. Any advice for finding goat people who use them as working animals and not pets? Craigslist seems like such a crap shoot given that I don't know much about goats. Well, nothing really.

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If I were you, I'd put dorper sheep on your acreage. They eat stuff nothing else wants to eat and are hardy as hell. No drenching for parasites, just pull the lambs off the ewes and haul to the sale barn once a year. Most if not all your ewes will throw twins and the market has been great on dorper lambs the last year or so.

Also, they don't have horns, so their heads won't be stuck in the fence all the time like goats. Which means wild dogs/yotes won't have easy snacks. They are much calmer than Spanish goats too, boer goats are pretty calm though.

AggieEE2002 said:

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For those who recommended goats:
I've talked to a couple folks who raise goats in the last six months, and all of them seemed like the goats were pets for them, and not working animals. They got kind of weird when I said I wanted them for clearing brush. Any advice for finding goat people who use them as working animals and not pets? Craigslist seems like such a crap shoot given that I don't know much about goats. Well, nothing really.

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County sale barn? How far are you from Goldthwaite? They have a huge goat & sheep sale every week.

FSGuide said:

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AggieEE2002 said:

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For those who recommended goats:
I've talked to a couple folks who raise goats in the last six months, and all of them seemed like the goats were pets for them, and not working animals. They got kind of weird when I said I wanted them for clearing brush. Any advice for finding goat people who use them as working animals and not pets? Craigslist seems like such a crap shoot given that I don't know much about goats. Well, nothing really.

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County sale barn? How far are you from Goldthwaite? They have a huge goat & sheep sale every week.

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Smith County is Tyler, TX, so a pretty good ways away.

How do they taste compared to cabrito though?

Amazing! I love goat meat too, but rack of lamb and leg of lamb are the best. The great thing about dorper meat is that it doesn't have that real sheepy taste, like you've been chewing on wool. That is the taste that turns most Americans off of lamb.

If you go with goats, make sure you install a good fence.

To test whether your fence is goat proof, throw a bucketful of water at it. If the ground gets wet on the other side, your fence is not goat proof.

If you had some of those trees mulched and want to grow grass on them, you might want to check your soil profile. A lot of times that tree mulch makes the soil very acidic which doesn't make for great grass. If that is the case, I think some guys are putting lime on those mulched areas to help get the soil PH back to where it needs to be. It wouldn't hurt to pull soil samples and get them checked to see what fertilizer program you might need to get your grass into good shape. Good grass will help get rid of a bunch of those weeds.

For everyone who said goats and sheep: THESE ARE GENERAL STATEMENTS.

Sheep are natural grazers, they will eat all the good grass and clover first then move on.

Goats are natural browsers. They will get after the underbrush first and will graze if they have to.

A couple images for reference.

looks like it needs a good discing and then overseed

That last pic looks like the perfect spot for your house. Great view!

It is going to be tough to sprig the areas you have had mulched as the roots/stumps interfere with a sprigging machine plus most sprigging guys have a ten acre minimum.

Id probably disk and seed in spring, live with weeds for a year, mow weeds to control and spot treat sprouts from mulched stuff the first summer. Next year go hard with pre-emergent in spring and normal weed control/fertilizer after that.

Kill weeds with glysophate mid April, disk and plant a pasture bermuda two weeks later.

The guys (scottryan) at Rozells on 64 West in Tyler are great on Chemicals. The guys (Marshall) at East Texas seed are great on seed. We actually got a good result from their seed (forget the branded name) where we worked over old terraces a few years back.

If you have an ATV with a bed or a truck for that matter you can borrow my Herd seeder and 25 gallon sprayer.

pm me if interested and I'll be happy to let you use them. I'm in Noonday so not a huge haul. You will probably want your own eventually but this can let you put off buying for a while.

If you are going to plant you might as well do it right and grab a soil sample or two now to see if you need lime. Bet you do based on location and your photos. If so it should be out at least 60 days prior to planting. You probably will be alright on fertilizer. We send our soil samples to SFA, they are cheaper and faster than A&M. I think its around $12/sample and takes a week or two. For four acres , three samples total would be more than enough and one composite might be fine if the soil is uniform. I never remember the site so google SFA soil lab and go from there. The report will tell you how much lime and fertilizer(by component) you need per acre.

If you need pelletized lime or fertilizer I can loan you my Cosmo seeder, but you will need a tractor(PTO) to use it. Lanes fertilizer (Charles) on 69n in Lindale has pull wagons (free use with purchase) and bulk lime and fertilizer if you are without a tractor but need a decent amount.

Several folks have mentioned disking - would tilling be acceptable or is there some benefit of disking you don't get from tilling? Reason I ask is because I think I'd have a lot easier access to a tiller.