There have been several threads lately on puppy training, mainly for specific problem issues. In each folks have suggested a certain book, training method, or Trainer with Videos/books/etc. Every time I have seen a specific method or trainer mentioned I ran a quick search on reviews. I guess I should have expected the result, but what I found on every one was extreme views both negative and positive. Some of the old school methods (which I have used very effectively) are now discredited as cruel and outdated, while the new ones are derided as garbage because they involve too much reward/treat, "everybody wins and gets a trophy" pansy-fied. My guess is that based on good, valid research, there have been modern training methods developed that incorporate the best of both worlds. My question is what are they and where the heck do you find it?

How about a general discussion on the different training philosophies/methods- positive reinforcement/treats, negative reinforcement pinch/shock colors, "clickers", etc.? Please note that the ones I just listed are a complete guess and probably not worded correctly and leave a lot out...

There is probably more real world experience on this board than many other sources, so lets share. Please keep it civil - the goal is to get the ideas out there and list sources so we can all come to our own conclusions.

My personal reason for the research is we have a new Australian Shepherd puppy and all of our personal experience has been with hunting/gun dogs. My guess is we need to modify our methods for this breed but I have no idea how or why.

Thanks.

Clicker+Treat
Positive reinforcement
And consistency on "No"

I don't think I have ever see a better program than that.

Herding dogs tend to be hyper sensitive to their partner's reaction, I said partner for a reason. Herding dogs are intelligent enough to perform as an equal when working livestock. Having trained dogs for herding it is different than a gun dog. You can ruin a good herding dog with too much negative reinforcement. Once I learned that my heeler was working with me as a team and not me ordering it to retrieve something things got much easier.

Agree 100% with farmer09. Over the years, I've raised 3 dogs on old school methods and by contrast, I'm using the new school (clicker/positive reinforcement) method on my English Setter now. Maybe its just the dog... but so far the results are overwhelming in favor of the new school method. My $.02

So what is the best resource on this method? Any specific book or Video?

Where at? If it is a puppy I would start with a general puppy class. Clicker treat doesn't need a special book or anything IMO. Socialization for herding breeds is key at a young age.

Example of teaching sit.
Start by clicking and treating so the association of the sound is positive. Then wear the treat bag around the house and when the puppy happens to sit down then click and treat. Voice command is the last piece.

That's a very simple summary. It's also how you build into the fun tricks like stretching, bowing and other things.

The book i use is "Training the Best Dog Ever". Lame title but a great read. Its all about positive reinforcement... not necessarily clicker-dependent.

I'd like to piggy back on this subject. Just bought the gf a maltipoo (not my first choice, but the dude does not shed, so he's good in my book) Anyway he's 10 weeks old, at what age should I start aggressively training him? I'm already laying down the ground work of the commands so he's getting used to the words, but still seems too young to grasp it yet, even with positive reinforcement. Except for the word no, he got that pretty fast.

Some general recommendations for dog training...

Consistency. As with anything, the key is consistency. If you have high expectations, you'll have to put in the time. Too many people (in my opinion) just get a dog, put it in the backyard, and then get pissed when it doesn't behave. I think a dog owner should be spending a cumulative 2 hours a day at the very least interacting with their dog.

Dogs are pack animals and respect hierarchy. Establish dominance early. I achieve this by laying on top of the pup until they submit (i.e. lay still). There is no need to exert your full body weight, just enough to show them that you're in charge. It may be necessary to hold their jowl with your hand as if you were subduing them. You'll have to do this several times over several days/weeks. Encourage every person in your family to do the same. The idea here is helping the dog understand where he/she is in the pack - and it should be the bottom.

Dogs respect those who control the food. Encourage your dog to learn commands and reward them with food. Do this EVERY time you feed them. When you do feed them, make it clear that you are allowing them to eat your food. Make them sit and stay; do not allow them to eat until you release them.

Be firm. Don't hit. It's easy to get frustrated. Stay calm. Dogs tend to be very aware and reflective of our moods. They take their cues from from the pack leader. Be a good leader.

Do you have any YouTube videos you can recommend? Our dogs are 2 1/2 but still have a few nagging issues I'd like to tackle so the next 10-15 years aren't a struggle.

I'm having fun reading the very old school "Game Dog" by Richard Wolters. I've been going back and forth between the book and my black lab Gus since we picked up the pup. This is my first attempt at training a dog. It's been a great experience so far.

That said, I think most trainers agree the more modern techniques with clickers and such are superior to the Wolters books. Maybe my next dog will be more modern. Game Dog is a good read that is geared more toward the average hunter with a dog. So far (up to week 20) it's all been positive reinforcement and consistency.

I'd like to teach them how to stay and how to come to me when I call their name. Fetching would be nice too.

To piggyback: Im starting to consider getting a bird dog. Id like to hunt over it a few times a year, but not serious, all the time kind of work. How much time each day would all of you suggest putting in dedicated work? An hour or so each day? A big 4-6 hour chunk on the the weekends? Or does the time requirement for only occasional hunting not make it worth the effort to get properly trained up? Sorry if this is a real basic question, I'm just starting to look into it. Thanks.

So if treats are the way to go....What are the best treats? Looks that could get expensive and whatever it is needs to be somewhat healthy as many as they get. Any commercial products or just make your own?

quote:

---

To piggyback: Im starting to consider getting a bird dog. Id like to hunt over it a few times a year, but not serious, all the time kind of work. How much time each day would all of you suggest putting in dedicated work? An hour or so each day? A big 4-6 hour chunk on the the weekends? Or does the time requirement for only occasional hunting not make it worth the effort to get properly trained up? Sorry if this is a real basic question, I'm just starting to look into it. Thanks.

---

What kind of hunting?

You only need to put in like 10 mins a day for a decent retrieving dog. 6 sessions a week for 10 minutes each would be far more productive than an hour on the weekend.

http://www.amazon.com/The-10-Minute-Retriever-Obedient-Enthusiastic/dp/1572233036

I'm not sure I'd go through the trouble of training a dog though if you're only using it a few times a year.