Guys,

This last summer I purchased a CZ/Huglu Upland Sterling O/U shotgun. I took it to the field once to go dove hunting and enjoyed it. This past Saturday, I went out and shot 10 rounds of sporting clays (100 shells) and came home with my face all beat up and bruised. From what I can tell my shotgun does not fit me.

Looking at some of the prices online for custom fitting and stock work, I'm now wondering if it doesn't make better sense to just cut my losses and sell it and buy another one. I'd like to keep the price on a new shotgun under $2100 or thereabouts.

What kind of shotgun would I need? Which one would address the faceslap I endured? Could I not go buy a Citori or other with confidence or would I need to worry about faceslap with a new shotgun as well?

Your help is appreciated.

Also, I'm selling my CZ Upland Sterling Shotgun. It's had about 110 shells put through it. I paid $1100 for it, but will let it go for $950 OBO.

it may be due to poor gun mount. I'd work on that before discarding the gun.

Thank you for the suggestion. I will definitely look into the mount question.

As an aside, looking at the Browning Citori White Lightening at Academy, I notice the drop at the comb is 1.625 inches. On the Upland Sterling it is only 1.375 inches. Is this the direction I need to go, or would I need to lessen the drop from the 1.375 inches to avoid the face slap?

No other O/U that will have any less recoil. That said, a heavier gun sucks up more of the recoil. As suggested your problem is mount and or shooting some monster load. For recoil reduction you would have to go to an auto. I think work with your mount and make sure you are getting your cheek on the stock. If after the shot the gun is kicking your cheek, you have not mounted correctly. God luck

Dr. Pete,

There may be some truth to your comments. As far as my mount (by mount I'm assuming you mean how I was holding the weapon?), I had a cheek weld on the stock as I would with any rifle. Maybe that is the wrong way to do it.

One of the other things you said that rings true was the fact that I was shooting Remington Premier Nitro Sporting Clays with "Nitro Velocity Performance". It was all they had at the Wal Mart and I needed shells so I bought them. I could tell a noticeable difference in recoil between those shells and some of the others I used.

RWC are you anywhere near San Antonio? I'll be happy to meet you and let you shoot my Citori

FWIW, my Silver Pigeon used to hurt my cheek so I had a Bumpbuster installed. It now feels like shooting a 20ga auto. My 725 has more felt recoil, but, its directed towards my shoulder and doesn't bother me or my cheek.

dba fido,

Thanks so much for the offer, but I'm in Houston. I'm contemplating selling my CZ shotgun, but have not decided. If I do sell, I'm debating now between the Beretta Silver Pigeon and the Browning Citori White Lightening sold at Academy. Do you or anybody else have opinions between these two shotguns?

Find a place where you can shoot both of them, and pick the one that feels/shoots the best for you.

if you have never done a lot of clays shooting you may be lifting off the gun to get a better look at the clay also if you are shooting from a low gun you might be rushing your first shot and not having a snig mount. just my. 02

I bet it's an eye dominance issue. Probably a right hand shooter with a dominant left eye and your pushing your cheek into the stock in an attempt to use the dominant eye. Learn to shoot with your opposite arm or learn to squint the dominant eye.

RWC, I'm in W Houston if you want to play with a Citori at ASC.

TheEyeGuy,

Thank you very much for the offer. I may just take you up on it.

I went to Academy yesterday and shouldered a 12 ga White Lightening 28" Citori. It was amazing to me how when I shouldered it, all I could see was the front bead. Reading online, one of the tips I picked up was that if you saw anything other than the front bead when the gun was shouldered, the gun was not a good fit. I went home and shouldered my CZ shotgun and I not only saw the front bead, but also a large portion of the rib. I think this caused me to force my face down on the stock to get a proper sight picture.

At this point, I'm pretty decided I just want to sell my CZ and go with either a Beretta Silver Pigeon or the Citori.

Anyone in Houston have a Silver Pigeon I could handle before I decide? Any opinions on which of the two you'd prefer?

http://shotgunreport.com/2013/10/01/fitting-for-face-slap/

before you do anything, read this. Actually there are several of his blogs on face slap - I only linked one but you can find them on his blog site.

Face slap is the result of the gun recoiling into your face instead of sliding straight back along your cheek and into your shoulder. It can be caused by poor gun fit, poor gun mount, or a combination of the two.

FWIW - few people find that both Brownings and Berettas fit them properly. Rather than just buy one, try to find a range where you can rent and shoot both. It would be an expensive proposition to find one that feels good in the shop and beats you to death when you shoot it.



[This message has been edited by JR69 (edited 1/22/2014 9:09a).]

I STRONGLY urge you to consult with a certified instructor regarding mount and gun fit before making a change in guns (Unless you would just rather have the SPII instead of the CZ - and who wouldn't). There are a number of instructors who work out of ASC who could help you.
90% of perceived recoil is due to gun fit, but a bad mount could give one the same result.
Other items to consider:

1. I use a 3 Dram/1 ounce load which travels at 1235 fps - relatively low recoil, but you can get it down even more with a 2 3/4 Dram load which is @ 1200 fps. Just understand that as you reduce the muzzle velocity, you give up a LITTLE energy at distances of 30 to 40 yards or more. That's a reasonable trade off for most people.
2. Gas operated Semi-autos WILL give less recoil if you don't mind having to carry a tool kit with you when you go to the range - which can be a real problem if you are shooting in a registered shoot. The swing dynamics of the lighter semi-auto is also very different from the O/U.
3. I doubt that eye dominance is the cause of your problem (I speak from experience as a cross-eye dominant shooter) HOWEVER, it's really easy to determine eye dominance - It's usually the first thing I do with a new student - AFTER THE SAFETY BRIEFING.

Good luck getting this resolved.


Gun safety is no accident

Any reason you aren't looking at the Browning 725? The White Lightning is built on the old legacy Citori frame which handles like a 2x4 compared to the 725. I got my 725 Sporting for $2,075 buying it used, but, like new. The 725 field is also under your max budget. The 725 is near universally lauded as the best Citori built to date.

Take another look at my picture above of the SP. notice how much I had to lower the butt pad to get the same drop as the Citori. I still love the Pigeon, but, you need to find a gun shop that sells the 725 and at least handle one before you decide.

All the 725s I'm seeing are north of $2300, even used.

This is a good thread. I plan to buy my first break action this year. With the prices they command, I only want to buy once.

Been shooting an 1100 20 with fixed ic choke since high school. Never messed with lop, drop, cast, etc.

dba fido,

How's this for an offer. I'll trade you my Tikka T3 Tactical w/Sako muzzle break in .308 w/Warne rings and a Leupold Mark 4 M1 4.5-14x50 scope in .308 straight up for your 725?

You're probably coming out ahead on the transaction as my gun with all components is worth north of $3300.

PMD,

There's a nice O/U for sale on the Classifieds board.

I will keep it in mind if it's still for sale later in the year. Selling/buying a house right now.

"I only want to buy once"

TOTALLY WRONG ATTITUDE!!!!

But, if that's the way it has to be for now (And, I've been there.)I would look seriously at the Beretta's.

Any chance you'd be interested in selling the 1100?

Gun safety is no accident

Maybe stop shooting the gun with your face . . .

My buddy bought a white lightning 20. That thing is super light to the shoulder, but it will kick the crap out of you after a few rounds of clays.

I have a citori that has a butt pad that I got from my uncle. I can shoot that thing all day. It is the heavier variety, but I like it more than the lightning, especially if you are a bigger guy. I can carry it in the field all day no problem and my shoulder (and face) feel great.

quote:

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"I only want to buy once"

TOTALLY WRONG ATTITUDE!!!!

But, if that's the way it has to be for now (And, I've been there.)I would look seriously at the Beretta's.

Any chance you'd be interested in selling the 1100?

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Hey I agree that it is the wrong attitude for rifles and handguns. For shotguns, I would rather have one nice one that fits and shooting is only muscle memory. My brother hits his dove limit in less than a box of shells where it normally takes me 2 or 3 boxes. He has been using the same beretta o/u since we did county 4H in the early to mid nineties.

No plans to sell the 1100. I also have a .410 1100 with a shortened stock that serves as a good tool for youngsters to learn on and then move up to the 20 gauge. Will keep both in the family.

"No plans to sell the 1100. I also have a .410 1100 with a shortened stock that serves as a good tool for youngsters to learn on and then move up to the 20 gauge. Will keep both in the family."

My sentiment exactly.

However, my opinion is that a wingshooter with only one shotgun is like a golfer with only one club in his bad - but, to each his own.


Gun safety is no accident

I ended up with a used citori super lightning. 12g 28" with a couple extended chokes for $1,100. I was hoping to get a deal on the Winchester 101 Cabelas field grade but couldn't find one in stock.

Hopefully I can get to take it out this weekend at the local club. Should be nice and sunny here in Corpus.

PMD you talking about Pistol and Rifle Club? I just joined there this year. We should go shoot some time !

Sounds good to me!

I joined when I moved down but have only played on the pistol and rifle ranges. It will be interesting to see how the wind down here plays with the clays.

RightWing, I have a Silver Pigeon I'd gladly let you shoulder and/or shoot if you'd like I try one out. I love mine, even though I don't shoot it as often as I'd like. Feel free to PM me if interested.

Echoes,

thanks so much for the offer, unfortunately, I've already purchased a Browning Citori 725 Sporting. What is done is done now, but I am pretty happy with it.

No worries at all, that's an awesome weapon!