Anyone know which outfit this was killed on?


http://www.venadogrande.com/2013-2014-entries/nggallery/image/lane-wolff-6/

Has to be somewhere West Bell. I don't know of any outfitters in East Bell

I would shoot it in a heartbeat, but would rather have a nice typical 10 or 12 over that.

That is a hideous rack.

The buck currently in second place of that contest is really nice.

This Clifford Maples guy is in 2nd AND 3rd place. Collusion!!

I know that guy in the pic. He was several years younger than me in high school.

Guess I could Facebook stalk him and ask. Might have been taken from the fenced ranch we have in town.

I've never heard of that contest. Those are some very impressive deer for our area.

Burr, they started it at the Feed Store several year ago. My grandfather won Best Bell County Buck last year.

I like the 2nd and 3rd place entries much more
2nd

3rd

Re the 2nd and 3rd place bucks---Bell County is under the Antler Restrictions unless MLD 2 or 3 property. One of those bucks appears to have a non-standard tag? Otherwise only one buck > 13" allowed.
And the 1st place buck is horrendous.

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Clifford Maples
Score: 187 7/8 B&C
County: Cottle Co.

Clifford Maples
Score: 162 7/8 B&C (High Fence)
County: Lampasas Co.

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Based on the size of the tag on the 3rd place buck, it's likely an MLD permit. Several awesome deer.

[This message has been edited by tlh3842 (edited 1/17/2014 4:08p).]

If 3rd place is a MLD does that mean it was taken because it was an 8 pt and not something more?

I understand people cull 8 pts, but that a lot nicer deer than i'll probably ever shoot

It's listed in the high fence category, so if it lives in the same feed pen (Bazinga) as the 348" deer up top then it'll be a cull.

You also have a lot of stupid managers out there who simply say, "every 8 point is a cull." Which is just dumb and short sighted in my opinion. There are some amazing 8 points out there that are true trophy deer. Not all 8 points are created the same just as not all 10/12 points are created the same.

Per game mgmt practice, you start by culling spikes and threes. Then, you move to seven and less. At some point you hope to get to nine and under. I'm at seven and under.

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Per game mgmt practice

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But any game management practice is purely discretionary on it's face. You may be managing purely for score. Others may manage for herd health and appropriate herd structure/breeding health.

I still think it's stupid to kill spikes/3 points because I don't intend to kill a buck at less than 5 or 6 years of age. The 3 year old spike is a rare creature. More rare than a typical 6x6 probably. Most spikes are just late born fawns who will catch up in development well before the age of 5. You might be blasting a deer with 200" genetics just because he was conceived in January instead of November.

The good news about that generalized view of game management though is it gives hunters, who can't really afford a quality lease, the chance to go and kill a stud of an 8 point just because some book someone read said that all 8's are culls.

Nice pen raised buck. Something about shooting a pen raised deer just does not excite me a bit.

I don't know much about growth and development of deer... but if this is the case

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I still think it's stupid to kill spikes/3 points because I don't intend to kill a buck at less than 5 or 6 years of age. The 3 year old spike is a rare creature. More rare than a typical 6x6 probably. Most spikes are just late born fawns who will catch up in development well before the age of 5. You might be blasting a deer with 200" genetics just because he was conceived in January instead of November.

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Is this the same with other smaller deer? How can you tell the difference then between your culls and something that will grow to be great?

Could be mustang creek ranch in Salado? Is that Bell county. Bill Grace had some breeder pens out there and some big deer 8-9 years ago. Thought it may be that place

Managing against 8's has always seemed arbitrary and silly to me. I mean you really want to manage against this?

Floor, it's possible. Other than Mustang, the only other place I can think of in Bell County is Solana, and I don't think they bring in deer that big.

There could be some other place out west of town I'm not familiar with.

2 and 3 all day. Hate that other crap.

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Managing against 8's has always seemed arbitrary and silly to me. I mean you really want to manage against

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It can seem whatever you and Sean think. Doesn't really matter what y'all think when statistics and facts prove otherwise. Who gives a **** about shooting 135-140" 8s when you have 180-190" 10s waiting to breed your does? Nobody hunts South Texas to kill a 135" deer. Common sense wins this argument every day. We have 21 years of management on the same property to prove it. That's including rainfall, moon phases, and whether our deer were killed in mornings or evenings. Used to kill 1-2 bucks over 150" each year and for the past 4-5 years, we have killed 5-6 bucks each year that are 160" plus. Many being 175"+. Would we let a 140" 8-point that is 3.5 years old walk? Hell yea, but that's 1 in a million. The exception, not the rule.

[This message has been edited by Txaggie02 (edited 1/18/2014 12:26a).]

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It can seem whatever you and Sean think. Doesn't really matter what y'all think when statistics and facts prove otherwise. Who gives a **** about shooting 135-140" 8s when you have 180-190" 10s waiting to breed your does? Nobody hunts South Texas to kill a 135" deer. Common sense wins this argument every day. We have 21 years of management to prove it. Used to kill 1-2 bucks over 150" each year and for the past 4-5 years, we have killed 5-6 bucks each year that are 160" plus. Many being 175"+. Would we let a 140" 8-point that is 3.5 years old walk? Hell yea, but that's 1 in a million. The exception, not the rule.

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These guys would like a word with you...

Those guys can suck my c....

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It can seem whatever you and Sean think. Doesn't really matter what y'all think when statistics and facts prove otherwise. Who gives a **** about shooting 135-140" 8s when you have 180-190" 10s waiting to breed your does? Nobody hunts South Texas to kill a 135" deer. Common sense wins this argument every day. We have 21 years of management on the same property to prove it. That's including rainfall, moon phases, and whether our deer were killed in mornings or evenings. Used to kill 1-2 bucks over 150" each year and for the past 4-5 years, we have killed 5-6 bucks each year that are 160" plus. Many being 175"+. Would we let a 140" 8-point that is 3.5 years old walk? Hell yea, but that's 1 in a million. The exception, not the rule.

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First, that's not a 140" deer, second, a 140" eight isn't something to be scoffed at in my mind, it's a nice deer, as nice as a 155" 10, just with 2 less tines. I'm long past being inch obsessed, a big framed, mature typical deer is what fires me up. But that's just me, and I try not to mash my views on everyone else.

Actually, Kerr WMA has already done extensive research on spikes and threes becoming a 200 class buck. "Dr Deer" is the only one in town left making this practice. The decision, as you state, is herd health and quality. There are only so many rooms at the hotel. You have to shoot so many bucks to meet the herd size requirement and to meet the buck/ doe ratio. Kerr has already shown spikes, threes, and forked horned without browtines are inferior. If you don't believe it, go see their Spike Pen. Anyway, with limited capacity per acre, who goes first? The inferior deer. And by not shooting any buck until five or six, you are vastly over-populated or your ranch is growing. The rule of thumb is to basically shoot the number of deer equal to your fawn crop each year. Sitting on five years of bucks blows up the math.

Well no **** it's not 140". That's why I said deer like that are 1 on a million and the exception, not the rule. Your motive of posting that pic does nothing.

But, your comments are exactly why management is important. We kill 6-7 8s and 9s that are 135-140" every year. It's clockwork. We don't blink at them. If they are mature, they die. Because we like to kill 160"+ nice bucks. ThTs what we past to hunt. And that doesn't happen by letting 135" 5.5 year old 8s walk. Period.

Agreed, but to hear many if a deer is 3.5 and only has 8 up its auto-cull time. Number of points is without question a factor, but mass, tine length, and beam length are also selectable characteristics. ie I'd prefer to let a big framed 8 with long tines and beams that run way out walk, than a short tined 10 who's beams make the turn and then quit, age being equal.

[This message has been edited by RockinU (edited 1/18/2014 1:03a).]

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ell no **** it's not 140". That's why I said deer like that are 1 on a million and the exception, not the rule. Your motive of posting that pic does nothing.

But, your comments are exactly why management is important. We kill 6-7 8s and 9s that are 135-140" every year. It's clockwork. We don't blink at them. If they are mature, they die. Because we like to kill 160"+ nice bucks. ThTs what we past to hunt. And that doesn't happen by letting 135" 5.5 year old 8s walk. Period.

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Not sure what motive you are referring to, that pic is simply to illustrate that having only 8 points doesn't necessarily make a deer inferior.

And I completely agree with shooting 135". 5.5 year old deer regardless of number of points, as they shouldn't be a part of anyone's management goals.

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Those guys can suck my c....

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One of these days I'm going to pay to have the laugh/cry emoticon. It's very apt right now.

Absolutely. Deer management isn't just for 7s, 8s, and 9s. 10s with crapy genetics (short tines or a basket racks) should also be shot. There's more to look at than points. But 99% of the time, 8-points should go. That's what statistics say and that's why people that know and study deer management say to shoot 8s. You are a fool if you choose to dispute that. There will be a monster that is the exception every now and then (we killed a 149" 8-point this year) but that isn't the rule and if you base your management of that one buck, you are going to be really disappointed.

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Agreed, but to hear many if a deer is 3.5 and only has 8 up its auto-cull time.

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Well, that's the stats. You can waste your time arguing against it, but that's what it is. A very large majority of 8s won't be 140"+ by maturity. And the people that pay big bucks to kill big bucks (see what I did there?) don't care about 140" 8s. They care about 170"+ 10s or 12s. So why let 140" 8s breed? It's counter productive. Mow those ****ers down!

[This message has been edited by txaggie02 (edited 1/18/2014 1:20a).]