Our 14 year old 40-45 lb terrier got bit by a snake this evening. He looks like he has a golf ball under his top rear lip. Gave him 50 mg Benadryl as soon as we saw the swelling start. About an hour after the bite, I saw two holes up close to his nose that are oozing a dark liquid. Guessing that is the bite mark. Pretty sure it was a copperhead as we have many of those on our property. Called the vet and she said I could give him another 50 mg in 2 hours. She did not mention giving him any further after that. Feel sorry for the poor guy, he feels so bad. His breathing seems fine at this time. The vet said to just make sure that he will respond when spoken to. Is there any thing else I should be doing or anything else I should be looking for? Should I continue benadryl after the second dose and if so, how often and for how long. I also have some Tramidol that I could give, maybe 1/4 tablet, for pain but do not want to overdose him because of the benadryl. Any words of advice? Thanks

[This message has been edited by beam (edited 4/23/2012 9:49p).]

I don think you need to give him pain meds unless you think he is in pain. You can safely give 2mg/lb of body weight with Benedryll an increase dosing to every 4 hours. Should also help him relax. Know what kinda snake it was? Might need some keflex or another broad spectrum antibiotic, just as a secondary fail safe for infections

Couldn't find the snake but other than a few chicken snakes, the copperhead is the only type we see around here frequently. Copperhead would definitely be my guess. It's been a little over 3 hours since the initial dose so I think I will give another 50mg right before bedtime. He is still responsive but can tell he feels really miserable. Can't tell the pain level. He is lying quietly. Guess I will need to get some antibiotics tomorrow from the vet since I don't have any on hand. Thanks

[This message has been edited by beam (edited 4/23/2012 10:40p).]

Give him 50mg of Tramadol, he is in pain.

IslandAg76: Is it alright to give both the Tramadol and the Benadryl?

I gave him the Tramadol only. He's seems to be resting more comfortably. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Txcoonhunter (edited 4/24/2012 2:27a).]

Bet he never gets bit again. Good luck to the little guy, hope he feels better soon.

Get the collar off. If he swells, it will cut off the air. Always the first thing we do with rattler bites.

The tramadol and Benedryll won't interact with each other, sorry should have mentioned this early.

Although, he/she will be pretty drowsy I would imagine.

Rimadyl and diphenhydramine has the same effect.

[This message has been edited by OnlyForNow (edited 4/24/2012 7:34a).]

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Correct, sorry-I went to sleep.

wareagle044: This is his second time to get bitten but it has been about 10 yrs since the last one. Guess he forgot.

IslandAg76: I gave him the Tramadol only and he slept like a baby. Looks like hell this morning but is eating and acting more normal. Thank you for your help. You made his night a whole lot easier. Should I continue to give him Benadryl until the swelling is gone?

Thanks OnlyForNow. I am really glad to have this information. He may not get bitten again but we also have another dog that is blind. That one may stick his nose in the wrong place and we'll have to do it all over again. Hope not but the odds are with living in the country it will happen again sooner or later.
Thank you all.

I'd run him into the vet. Most likely they'll prescribe an antibiotic and give him a steriod shot.

After that, only the antibiotic will need to be given.

Shouldn't be over 150 bucks (hoepfully) but depends on your vet. (50 for visit, 50 for shot, 50 for pills... it's a rough and high estimate)

Our chocolate female (I should say my dad's), has been bitten by 7 copperheads and 1 cottonmouth.

That poor dog just likes snakes.

Sorry to hear that. Our 2 yr. old GSP got bit on the nose and face in a couple of spots by a Copperhead last Tues. Been in the field with her many times, and the damn dog just has too much pain tolerance and didn't leave it alone after the first pop. Gets her in a pinch often, but smart and usually avoids hear rough "learning opportunity" the next time. She got hit at least 3 times during the encounter.

Started as a golf ball size lump in the evening, and by the morning entire face and neck of a lean-faced dog looked like a bloodhound.

I had taken her into the Vet the evening it happened, and as stated, pain meds and anibiotix were given, but generally speaking if your's is healthy, their body with take care of itself in 24-48 hrs. For me though, peace of mind at the Vet was good(checked breathing, red blood cells, and a couple of other things, as well as the meds).

One thing to be aware of, depending of the severity of the bite (or bites), is that the skin is VERY raw and almost rots of. Ours has about a 1 in x 3 in chunck that fell off where two hits occured, but is heling up nicely now.

WB '99

Silly question but do dogs not have the same reaction to snakes as humans? I mean with people you'd need an ER stat.

Actually, no you wouldn't.

Only bites that require ER visits (unless you have reactions) are coral snakes and rattle snakes.

Both copperheads and cottonmouths. Cause lots of discomfort, swelling, and pain but other than that they usually do not administer antivenom and only give a small steriod and antibiotics.... just like with dogs.

FYI - Dog looks a lot better now, most of the swelling has moved down below his jowl. Vet gave me Amoxicillin for him and also some prednisone in case he gets bitten again. Said to use the pred instead of Benadryl. I asked about some pain meds to have on hand for the future but she didn't feel that was needed.

To be honest, I'm just about to graduate as a vet, and what we are learning now is that steroids don't do anything for snake bites, as it's not an allergic reaction (releasing histamines) but a vasculitis (inflammation of the blood vessels, that then leaks out protein causing the swelling). It doesn't hurt, per se, but it's not going to fix it. Benadryl isn't going to work either.

I just got off 2 weeks of emergency service, and we saw about 10 snakebites/week (including my own dog!). Treatment consisted of running a blood smear, coagulation tests, pain injection and pain meds to go home. If it's in the throat region, remove the collar and watch for difficulty breathing. A few small dogs had some clotting problems and bruised easily. Most made it fine. One Dachshund was in ICU for 3 days and her skin started sloughing off.

It all depends on the snake and how many times they got bit, as well as where. One Chihuahua got bit under the tongue, which is equivalent to injecting venom IV. He did not do so good and had to have a plasma transfusion. Sometimes we give antibiotics but again, that is not going to fix it. Time is what is usually needed, and pain meds.

If it's a rattlesnake or a really bad bite, sometimes anti-venom is recommended but it is the same as they use in people and around $500 a vial. A large dog can use several vials, so it's not used often.

I am obviously not a vet and do not know the answers. That is why I post on here to gain some knowledge from everyone's expertise and experience. I was told by a vet in the past to give Benadryl after a poisonous snake bite to help the swelling. I think it also helps them to relax which may be more the purpose. I do know that the first time this dog got bitten by a copperhead, he was going into shock before we got him to the vet school. After paying them an arm and a leg for IV fluids and antibiotics, another vet told me to use benadryl as did the vet last night. I can't say for sure what would have happened if he had not had the drug but he didn't have the same problems as the first time when it was not given. I really think the Tramadol worked wonders on him being able to sleep and probably played a large part in why he is doing so well today. It has to be painful if nothing else from the swelling. I am not disputing what you have learned in vet school and can only relate the two experiences I have had.

Do dogs build up antibodies to snake bites so that additional bites are not as serious? Just curious. Thanks to you all.

No I understand. It was thought for a long time that it was an allergic reaction to the venom, so giving Benadryl and steroids would help. Tramadol is a pain medication (synthetic opioid) so does nothing for the swelling, only pain management. Yes, I do bet it helped your pup feel much better! A side effect is mild sedation. Benadryl certainly doesn't hurt to give, as it is very safe, steroids however can have some side effects.

Not trying to argue...just trying to correct mis-information and give you an answer.

As far as them building up antibodies - I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think they do. Most swell up just as big the second or third time as they did the first. Too bad they don't learn the first time around.

So in your opinion, do you think if it does happen again, that I should stick to the Benadryl or go with the prednisone? As you said, the steroids can have side effects. I do wish the vet had given me something to use for pain management in the future.

Interesting Christ! Can you point me in the direction of the studies? makes sense, however are there sometimes 2ndary reactions that steroids/Benedryll could help?

step 1, without question, take the collar off. the throat area can swell like to volley ball size.

ER vet here.

We see a fair number of snake bites up here in DFW and everyone here has their own way of treating snake bites. Studies have shown that steroids do nothing and could possibly cause more harm than good. Benadryl has not been shown in studies to provide any benefit (unless it's an allergic reaction to the bite) but is unlikely to do much harm. Antibiotics are somewhat controversial but I use them since snake's mouth are not clean to begin with and helps reduce risk of secondary infection from the bite.

If you as a person are bit by a snake, you would be given pain meds and antivenin (and lots of it) Antibiotics, steroids, or anti-histamines are usually not given since there is no benefit seen in studies. So in theory, the same applies to dog bites but again, everyone is different and treat snake bites differently.

The best thing for any snake bite is to go to you vet. The standard treatment (IMO) coagulation check, pain control (with opiods), fluid therapy, +/- antibiotics, and time. If the dog was bit by a rattler or or even coral snake, antivenin is the best thing to give since it is the only treatment shown to reduce swelling, pain, and shorten hospitalization stay.

Hope this helps some

BTW aggie4christ22: Congrats on finishing vet school and good luck with your career.

Question, I've always read that dogs have a pretty good chance to survive a copperhead and cottonmouth bite with benadryl and possibly a pain suppressant, but that rattlesnake and coral snake bites are much more dangerous. Is this true?

Does anyone know if you can give dogs Propoxyphen - APAP 100-650 MGTEV for pain? If so, what the dosage would be? Looked it up online and it says this is a combination of 100 mg of Darvon and 650 mg of acetominophen. It is also the same as Darvocet. Is that safe for dogs?






[This message has been edited by beam (edited 4/24/2012 10:17p).]

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Does anyone know if you can give dogs Propoxyphen - APAP 100-650 MGTEV for pain? If so, what the dosage would be? Looked it up online and it looks like it is Darvocet.

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Darvocet is not a very good analgesic in people nor dogs so I would not recommend it. Best pain meds are tramadol, gabapentin, Rimadyl, and amitriptyline (not necessarily all four at once).

Copperhead (some cottonmouths) usually have the least amount of envenomation but again, pain management is the key. Benadryl is not likely to provide much benefit

Lot of variables, size of snake, when is the last time it bit some thing-has to do with amount of venom, where was the venom deposited, sensitivity of the individual getting bit, etc.

There are always people telling you to "not" give steroids and then they tell you part of the snake bite problem is the inflammatory response of the "bitee", well, steroids are a potent anti-inflammatory.

IMO, one dose of a "steroid" won't hurt anything and it might help. Pain meds are important. Animals rarely get anti-venom, cost too much and usually not sure what kind of snake was the "biter".
Benadryl might help if there is some individual sensitivity to the venom, won't hurt anything.

[This message has been edited by IslandAg76 (edited 4/24/2012 10:19p).]

MexAg05: I'm curious as to why my vet would not prescribe any pain medication but instead only gave me prednisone for future bites. I may have to question further. I would really like to have some on board just in case. Any suggestions, if my vet will not prescribe pain meds? Maybe talk to another vet? I'm not sure what route would be best. The only reason I brought up Darvocet is that I do have some of that on hand.

[This message has been edited by beam (edited 4/24/2012 10:28p).]

[This message has been edited by beam (edited 4/24/2012 10:43p).]

Is amatriptalin still crazy ass pill colors.

Beam: I'm not sure why pain meds was not prescribed. Oral tramadol is cheap and effective and would provide some relief and is one I would send home if owners were not going to keep pt in hospital.

IMO, Prednisone is not going to help much and does takes at least 12 hours to work. There are some studies where steroids are not beneficial and may actually hinder the healing process. Is it contraindicated? Probably not but it would not be part of my treatment protocol.

If I am going to use any anti-inflammatory, it would probably be an NSAID such as rimadyl