A .22 mag with a 36-40 grain bullet carries nearly as much energy at 50 yards as a 9mm luger.

Depending on bullet and load, the 9mm has 315-390ftlbs energy at 50 yards.

The .22mag has 310-325ftlbs energy at that same distance.

At close range, the .22 mag may even slightly overtake most 9mm loads simply because velocity is a more significant part of the energy equation.

I kind of wonder how a .22 magHP would be as an SD round in a small, light weight 8 shot revolver. The hole would be small, but it would definitely put a reasonable amount of energy on target.

very surprised.

22 mag would suck as a SD round. K/E is over rated when it comes to pistol rounds. How much does the bullet expand and how far does it penetrate? That's what matters.

I'm sure pene would be pretty decent at 2000fps. It would make a .22 hole and an HP would expand some, but yeah, the bleed out effect would be marginal.

I'm thinking more like you could make a really tiny revolver for .22 mag because it is so narrow, or one with a higher capacity, like 8-10 shots, that is still quite small.

i agree. just looking at kinetic energy is deceiving.

just get some exploding 22 mag bullets and that'll solve your expansion problem

You also might want to look at momentum - M*V.

Heavier & slower typically out penetrates lighter & faster.

I'll take a 45 auto with a 225gr. pure lead bullet at 900fps over either of those.

Even though the 45 auto at that vel. has only 17 more ftlbs, it will do 10X the damage.

[This message has been edited by Doc Hayworth (edited 3/20/2009 12:28p).]

[This message has been edited by SWCBonfire (edited 3/20/2009 1:04p).]

Perfect example of why you should not use kinetic energy to compare cartridges that are not at all similar.

I understand what you are all saying, and I agree. I'm just wondering if it has some merits at all.

I also agree with the cross section and penetration argument.

What I'm getting at here is diameter also makes your weapon considerably larger, and/or reduces capacity.

[This message has been edited by MouthBQ98 (edited 3/20/2009 1:17p).]

I'll take a small 45, 9mm, or even a 380 before i'd use a 22 mag of the same size even if it offered 3 times the capacity. If you're talking revolvers, a 5 shot 38 special with +p's would be much better than an 8 shot 22 mag. Any of the centerfire round I mentioned would more reliably reach vital organs than a 22.

C'mon guys, you're making me feel bad about my .22 WMR purchase.


TAF

NRH, are you sure? I don't know either way... but it would seem that a projectile (comparing similar construction, of course) of ANY size that is traveling faster will acheive greater penetration. At least that's how it works with ballistic armor. .308 and .223 are Class IV because they penetrate due to velocity.

This looks like it hurts:

Notice that bullet tumbled in the gel, and it would have gone almost thorough a man sized target. That's more damage than I thought there would be.

quote:

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NRH, are you sure? I don't know either way... but it would seem that a projectile (comparing similar construction, of course) of ANY size that is traveling faster will acheive greater penetration. At least that's how it works with ballistic armor. .308 and .223 are Class IV because they penetrate due to velocity.

This looks like it hurts:

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With fmj rounds, faster usually equates to more penetration given the same size projectile, but remember, it's penetration with expansion that makes for a more effective round. Sure that 22 will bore a 14" hole in you, and it will yaw slightly, but the cavitation caused by the yaw in a bullet that small is well within the tissues capacity to stretch without causing permanent damage. I could do the same thing with 9mm 115 fmj and it'll go straight through you AND leave a bigger hole. Mind you this is the same round that our troops hate so much in the issue m9. The bullet a 22 mag shoots is simply not big enough to do enough damage to make it anything but a last ditch option for defense. It can penetrate or it can expand, but cant do both at the same time. That's why I'd gladly trade extra rounds for a lower capacity weapon chambered for a more effective cartridge. The 5.56 and 7.62 rounds you mention have velocity and weight on their side. I think the specific 5.56 round that I recall being class IV is ss109 black tip which has a steel penetrator at its core. Again, you see expansion sacrificed for penetration because most 5.56 rounds use a lightweight, velocity dependent 62 grain bullet with a high fragmentation threshold. As for 7.62 NATO, it's also using a fmj that will yaw rather than expand.