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finding a buried water line

5,423 Views | 56 Replies | Last: 17 yr ago by ursusguy
RBoutdoors
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anybody have any tips for finding a buried waterline?

It is a pvc line that feeds the ranch house. I am trying to find where the valve is to shutoff the water to the house. At one time the valve was marked but has long been buried.
DevilYack
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Sometimes you can see that the grass on a line is a different color. It's not always obvious, but you can see it when you look for it. Also, sometimes there is a hump or sunken bit of ground where the line was backfilled.

If that doesn't work, you'll have to get a probe and start probing the ground around where you think the line is.
swampstander
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Drive a t-post to build a fence or shoot a random shot into the ground. Both methods have worked for me.
CanyonAg77
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Since what you actually want is the metal valve, not the pvc line, use a metal detector, and walk the shortest course between the well and the house.

But if the valve is plastic, too, I think you're stuck with probing. Mark where the line enters the ground and where it enters the house. Should be in the straight line between those points.

When probing, you're not just feeling for the pipe...you need to feel for the soil texture. More than likely it will be a lot softer than the surrounding ground.

Get up on the roof and look at the ground, too. You'd be surprised how obvious pipeline cuts are from above.
WildcatAg
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You need to do some witching. Get two pieces of wire line (I always used wire survey flags) and bend them each into the shape of a capital "L." Loosely hold the two wire pieces in your hand like a pistol, with the short part of the L in your palms. Slowly walk over where you think the water line is located. When you're over the water line the two wire pieces will turn towards each other.
USMC1995
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^
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He's a witch, burn him!



[This message has been edited by jasontjames (edited 7/22/2008 12:00p).]
TacoBlanco
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WildcatAg is correct. I have used wire hangers for this too.
swampstander
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"he has got a wart"
Doc Hayworth
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I did exactly what WildcatAg said just a couple of weeks ago to locate a PVC Irrigation line, a copper water line and a gas line, prior to digging my fence posts.

I've been doing this for years and never had a problem finding any type of lines on my property or neighbors property when they asked for my help.
straydog
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It does work......
Old School Brother
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swampstander is right....start digging a trench where you are sure the water line is not and you're guaranteed to find it.
BrazosDog02
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quote:
You need to do some witching. Get two pieces of wire line (I always used wire survey flags) and bend them each into the shape of a capital "L." Loosely hold the two wire pieces in your hand like a pistol, with the short part of the L in your palms. Slowly walk over where you think the water line is located. When you're over the water line the two wire pieces will turn towards each other.


However, when doing this, try not to sneeze with your eyes open, or they will pop out of their sockets or touch any toads because youll get warts.

How does this stuff get perpetuated?
wunderbrad01
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quote:
It does work.....

yes it does.
Usoos
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I've done it enough that I actually bought some official witching sticks.

I'll see if I can find a picture of mine.
Cowtown Red
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metal detector.
Usoos
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I can't find a picture of my divining rods but I used wire coat hangers before I bought them.

It isn't very difficult and is pretty accurate. Once you find the buried line, you'll want to approach from both directions so you can get a more accurate location.
wunderbrad01
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Do your divining rods work much better than a coathanger?
WildcatAg
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quote:
How does this stuff get perpetuated?

I don't know. Maybe it's because when I worked as a surveyor's assistant I (and others) used the technique successfully many, many times to locate water lines?
WildcatAg
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quote:
He's a witch, burn him!

I was working with my in-laws on an expansion project for their church and my FIL said he needed to find a waterline. I told him we needed to do some witching. My MIL (who is a very devout Penecostal) was standing there and did not find it amusing. My FIL thought it was pretty funny because he does it all the time.
Usoos
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Not really, but they are telescoping with a hinge so they are stored inside their handle. Sort of hard to explain.

To make divining rods out of coat hangers you need to straighten them out and then cut off the ends so that they are the same length and don't have any of the twists. Then bend one of the ends of each hanger about 6" from the end.

Everyone has their own method. But my method is to hold them relatively loosely with my thumb pointing up and pressing against the bend. If you want better descriptions or help I'll try and figure out a better way of describing it.
Cowtown Red
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You silly kids and your voodoo witchcraft.

quote:
Dear Cecil:

Cecil, my world view has been severely altered, and I need your help. While on a recent trip to the wilds of Arizona, I had the opportunity to witness--and indeed, participate in--a demonstration of "wishing," which is the location of underground water through a divining rod, or "wish stick." I had always thought this practice was an old wives' tale, but the natives use it routinely to determine where to dig their wells.

If a stick of wood is used, it bends toward the ground; if a coat-hanger wire or thin brass rods are used, one is held in each hand, and they cross over each other when water is found. The only explanation the local experts could provide is that moving water creates a magnetic field, but this doesn't account for its effect on wood. I swear on a stack of Straight Dopes that I speak not with forked tongue. Illuminate me, Cecil. --Cooper B., Chicago

Cecil replies:

Good Lord, dowsing? Next you're going to tell me you got a great deal on a time-share condo. This is about the oldest dodge in the books.

You don't describe what your "participation" consisted of, but let me guess: you watched some old geek with a divining rod (typically a forked stick held in a peculiar grip with both hands, but sometimes just an ordinary single stick) wander around the desert for a while with a look of concentration on his face.

By and by the stick began to quiver, and suddenly plunged sharply downward, whereupon he exclaimed something to the effect of, "Dig here, you'll find water." Then he said, "You try it, sonny, it'll work for you, too." And gosharoonie, he gave you the stick and showed you how to hold it and lo and behold, when you got to the spot where the stick had plunged down for the old coot, it did the same thing for you--just like some mysto force had grabbed onto it.

Naturally, since water in Arizona is typically found 175 to 200 feet below the surface, you didn't actually dig a well to test the accuracy of the rod, but assumed that since it worked for you, it must be legit.

Congratulations, sucker. You've fallen victim to the classic Skeptical Young Guppy Becomes True Believer syndrome, described in great detail in a study of dowsing (as wishing is sometimes called) published by two University of Chicago researchers in 1959. "Wishing," incidentally, is a corruption of "witching," as in "water witching," the most common American expression for dowsing, AKA rhabdomancy and divination.

Although divining has been around in various forms for millennia, the well-known forked stick method appears to have been devised in the mining districts of Germany (you can supposedly find minerals with a dowsing rod, too) in the late 15th or early 16th century. It was first formally described in an essay in 1556, and since then has been spread around the world by European colonists. In the past 400 years, more than a thousand essays, books, and pamphlets have been published on the subject.

Needless to say, dowsing is entirely a fraud, although often an unconscious one. Innumerable experiments, beginning in 1641--that's right, 1641--have demonstrated that:

(a) The presence of water has no discernible effect on a rod held above it, whether the rod is made of wood, metal, or anything else.

(b) The success rate for diviners is about the same as that for people who use the hit-and-miss method when looking for water.

(c) Geologists trained to recognize telltale surface clues (certain kinds of rocks and plants, various topographical features) will invariably far outdo dowsers in predicting where water will be found, and at what depth.

Nevertheless, belief in dowsing has persisted, partly because most people secretly want to believe in magic, partly because water is fairly easy to find in most parts of the inhabitable world, and partly because the plunging-stick phenomenon seems so convincing to untutored observers.

It's worth noting that in many parts of the eastern U.S. it is virtually impossible to dig a hole and not find water. Granted it's tougher in the west, but I lived in Tucson for a spell and they had gotten well-digging down to such a science that the success rate approached 100 percent. Even over complex hydrological formations, the success rate by the hit-and-miss method is often as high as 75 percent.

The plunging-stick phenomenon is caused by a well-documented psychological effect known as "ideomotor action," first described in the 1800s and clinically demonstrated in the 1930s. What happens is that conscious thought gives rise to involuntary, usually imperceptible muscle movements.

If I strapped you to a table in a lab and loaded you up with sensors and told you to just think about raising your arm--but not to actually do so--the sensors would probably detect some slight upward motion in that arm, which you'd be completely unconscious of. Ouija boards and several other seance-type tricks make use of this principle.

In forked-stick dowsing, the two ends of the stick are held in a rather uncomfortable grip in such a way that the stick is under considerable tension--coiled up like a spring, as it were. Any of four minor muscle movements will result in the stick taking a sudden lurch downward (you can try this in the backyard sometime).

An experienced dowser, who has often picked up a fair bit of practical geological knowledge, particularly if he has worked in the same geographical area for many years, often develops a good instinct for judging where water might be just by looking at the terrain. When he walks around doing his number with the stick his mind unconsciously transmits this knowledge to his arm muscles, with predictable results.

You, the young sap, don't know anything about geology, but you do know where the stick pointed the first time, and unconsciously you want to duplicate that feat. If either you or the dowser is blindfolded, though, you won't even get close to the spot twice.

Besides forked sticks you can use barbed wire, a fork and spoon, coat hangers, welding rods, even a bunch of keys hanging by a chain from a Bible. If you want more information on this ridiculous art, most libraries have lots of books on the subject--right next to the section on tarot cards.

--CECIL ADAMS


KRamp90
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terlingua
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Witching works! A couple of clothes hangers bent into an L. Hold the short end, firm, but loose enough to let it rotate freely. Point them straight ahead and walk until they move. If you cross the line, they will work.

The metal detector works, but not on PVC.
wunderbrad01
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If you punch a hole in the ground, water will come up anywhere around here. That much is true.

But can ol' Cecil explain why we can find location and direction of water and electrical lines without fail?
Doc Hayworth
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Leave it to a red raider to suggest a metal detector to find PVC.

There must be alcohol involved!
bonham
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In third grade a man came to my school and demostrated "devining".

I was amazed at the time that these other third graders actaully believed that it was real.

I am not saddened to see that people still believe it to be true. This may be my last venture over to the OB.
wunderbrad01
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We live in a sad time where people believe in stuff like global warming, but not witching water lines.
tx4guns
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Witching works. I've done it before. My cousin who is a bug man taught me how years ago. He was treating my grandpa's house for termites and didn't want to drill into the slab and hit a water line.

Nice one raider. Here's your sign.
Apache
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Make your own shut-off valve!

You'll need to get a compression coupling the same size diameter as the PVC pipe.

Attach a ball valve to one end of the compression tee prior to starting.

Excavate a few feet of pipe, then cut the water line. Slip on the compression tee & tighten up the clamps. Turn the ball valve off to shut off the water. Then take some pipe & a slip PVC coupling & re-attach the line & open the ball valve up.

Sounds complicated, but it's not too bad. Be prepared to get a little wet.

If you need a visual, watch Hellfighters with John Wayne after they Nitro a well. They use basically the same method to shut off a free-flowing wellhead.

Or try witching.
USMC1995
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What you really need is ground penetrating radar. That is the only thing that will find that waterline. Never mind all that non-sense about divining. That only worked for our parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc. We are much too educated and wise to believe that would work. What a bunch of bumpkins suggesting something that stupid.
Usoos
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I really don't want to get into an argument about using divining rods. The rods I'm talking about help locate flowing buried lines. These aren't the rods that find water or oil. I use them all the time while working on natural gas compressor stations. In some of the old ones there are lines running all over the place without proper as-built drawings.

I was skeptical 10 years ago when I was fresh out of college and a superintendent used them. But I quickly changed my mind.

Like I said earlier it is important to walk across the line both directions once you get an indication. Depending on how fast you walk the location can vary as much as a foot. The slower you walk and the lighter you hold the hangers you can usually pinpoint the location to within a 6 inches.
Cowtown Red
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quote:
Leave it to a red raider to suggest a metal detector to find PVC.

There must be alcohol involved!





You missed the part where he's looking for the valve. Anything 4" and up is almost sure to be a ferrous metal.
Apache
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The water line to the house is likely to be 1.5" or smaller, but the raider is right. The valve is most likely made of brass.
doubleag91
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Does the water need to be flowing for the L shaped wires to find the pipe?
Doc Hayworth
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Nope
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