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Will you take the leash off first? Do they have names?

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Took this quote from another thread.

It got me to thinking: how many of you have hunted high fences and what's your take on it? I'm sure I'm opening a can of worms and it's probably been discussed ad nauseum here in the past.

I've hunted a high fence ranch for years, and I still don't have a Big Buck hanging on the wall....

Feel free to post if you've never hunted a high fence ranch before, but I'd really like to hear from those who have experienced it.

Just saying "High fence" isn't specific enough IMHO. If you perimeter high fence 5-10k acres, like some of the big South Texas ranches, not big deal at all.

Must of the negativity steams from the borderline unethical commercial kill lots (not the name they go by in their ads shockingly). There was one on here a while back that showed a (nice looking) young lady who killed four different trophy exotics on the same day.

I don't particularly care for them. Full disclosure, I've never hunted behind a high fence. But the neighbors have a three sided high fence. Wanna guess where the open side is? Right next to us. Both of us are in the same WMA, so it works. Except their hogs really love our land.

I only have problems (and I guess they aren't really problems) with the little bitty high fenced ranches. If you're hunting a 1-2-3 thousand acre high fenced ranch that is actually dedicated to really hunting it isn't much different than hunting low fence other that you aren't going to lose any of your deer to neighbors. I hunt only low fence ( maybe because that is the only opportunity I have) and just got on a south Texas lease that is all low fence. We are bordered on one side by someone else's high fence. I think most people's negativity comes from not being able to afford it.

Would I hunt a small high fence ranch? No. It wouldn't be hunting to me. Would I hunt a large one? You bet I would. Do I wish we could High our local ranch? You bet I do! I'm tired of "shoot your buck" a-holes killing deer that we spend so much time and money growing before they are mature.

I guess my answer is No I really don't have a problem with it for the most part.

everyone brace for the wrath of moron...

One of the first places I hunted as a kid was a high-fence ranch. It was 11,000 acres in, no introduced genetics or other species. It was in Guadalupe county, a place with a generally hill country mentality to shoot bucks when you see them or someone else will. The fence was cause they had a great management program (food-plots and shooting cull bucks, by management I don't mean introduced genetics) and were tired of losing ground to neighbors shooting young, promising deer. The deer were wild and tough to hunt. Didnt get my first deer until I went to a low-fence ranch.

In cases like that, you'd be hard pressed to convince a reasonable person educated on the subject that there was anything unethical about the situation.

Dually noted there's obviously unethical cases of small high-fence ranches used for "canned hunts." But like I say, in cases like I mentioned, if you say there's something unethical, you're just being biased.

The only high fenced ranch I have hunted was a 2,000 acre with exotics. Personally I prefer open range, but understand the necessity if the owner has purchased exotics.

I hunt a 3500 acre high fence ranch. It is a beautiful place, hilly and rough with good mix of brush, timber and open ground. Just so happens that it is within 2.5 hours of the metroplex. As a result, the neighboring ranches have all been split into 200 acre tracts, for approx $1,750 per acre. When we high fenced, it was out of self defense. There was not a buck over 4 1/2 years old left on the place, and we shot exactly 0 bucks the previous 3 seasons. The fence really pissed off the neighbors, who had put up stands every 200 yards along our perimeter, they even poached a full grown emu that we had running around our place (kind of a funny story now). I have been very pleased with the decision to put up the fence. We keep a very low density, with the ratio as close to 1:1 as possible. The bucks are getting mature, and very big. Anybody that tells me that hunting a 7.5 year old buck inside a 3500 acre high fence is unsporting or unethical, has never tried it. My only regret is that we are precluded from putting any deer in the B&C book.

I don't really like high fences because to me it symbolizes what deer hunting has evolved into in the last 15 years or so. Now as soon as you shoot a deer the first thing anyone asks you is "what did he score?" It just seems like hunting now is more about bragging rights and buying toys than just enjoying nature and spending time with friends. But to each his own.

I dont really like the idea of hunting behind high fence, but If you going to I dont have much of a problem with it as long as it has enough acreage.

Myself I like to hunt public land where scouting heavily is required and no baiting is allowed. This makes me understand traveling routes from bedding to feeding, focus on scrape lines, and spend numerous hours doing work before sitting in a stand. Sitting in the stand is only 10% of the hunt. The other 90% of hunting is the before and after. Like I said I dont have a problem if people want to hunt high fence but above is just the way I like to do it.

MY OPINION (I'm not a crusader and I respect anybody else's take on the matter):

To high fence anything under 1k acs for hunting purposes is questionable at best. That's not a ranch, it's a yard.

Above 1k acs, I don't begrudge anybody else for doing it, but I don't think I'd pay to hunt a high-fenced place. There's something that just eats at me knowing that my quary can't just jump the fence onto the neighbor's property.

But that's me. I don't have an ethical issue with anybody else doing it, and I completely understand a manager or landowner's desire to manage his herd to the utmost.

Like I said, I don't begrudge anybody. Unless I find out they're hunting on some 300 ac high-fenced place. To me, that's wrong.

89FordAg laid out a perfect scenario why I don't begrudge others for doing it.

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It just seems like hunting now is more about bragging rights and buying toys than just enjoying nature and spending time with friends.

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Amen.

Except I really like to buy toys . . .

I have a friend that has about a section and a half high fenced. It had very few deer on it eight years ago. He wanted a place for his 3 & 5 year olds to hunt....they are now 11 & 13. They have grown up filling feeders, repairing them etc. Up until this year they were only allowed to shoot cull deer....this was their year to shoot a big one....and they had some great deer. One up the big rain runoffs this season plowed a big gap in their fence. They lost the vast majority of their deer and have had to basically start all over.

I think for many people the issue would be the declaration of "their deer."

Plus sun, out in your country a section and a half might only have 20 deer on it.

Thanks for your input.

I hunt once a year on a 1600 acre ranch south of sweetwater that is high fence. It belongs to a good friends' family.

When I first started hunting there I wasn't too sure about hunting a high fence but hey, who is going to pass up a free hunt on a well managed ranch? There are no cattle, only wildlife.

The best deer to come out of there is a 156 and my personal best is a 127 I took with a bow last year on the ranch (first bow kill actually).

It is all spot and stalk. There are stands some of the kids and older folks hunt from, but we never hunt a stand unless it is for bow hunting.

I was just curious as to how folks feel about it. Personally, I find it just as difficult to hunt mature deer behind high fence, assuming mature deer are your goal.

The only real problem I have with high fences is the mentality that drives them in alot of cases. You constantly hear people talking about having to put up fences "because the a-holes next door were shooting OUR bucks". Newsflash, they are not "OUR" bucks. Under Texas law, deer belong to the state, and putting up a fence to keep them from moving freely essentially takes a public resource and makes it private. I understand the frustration with a-holes that won't let a deer outgrow its spots before shooting it, but it doesn't change the fundamental problem of privatizing wildlife. I don't begrudge anybody for hunting on them as long as they are large enough to not be a kill-pen, but I am more just saddened that the state wildlife agency hasn't done more to prevent the privatization of deer herds. TPWD has caved whole-heartedly to the trophy industry to the detriment of the management of the state's wildlife resources. I know a ton of people in the rank and file of TPWD hate what their leadership has allowed to happen, but the big wigs on the TPWD commission and their friends are among those who stand to make big profits selling bucks on their ranches.

BTW, Sunchaser...if your friend has a ranch that big and is having to spend that much time and effort filling feeders, yet one gap in his fencing caused him to lose most of his deer, then he is doing something seriously wrong. If the deer are that eager to leave a ranch that big, then either he has way too many deer, isn't providing enough forage, or he doesn't have enough water. I find it hard to believe that on a ranch that big, that you would see a large scale migration of deer through a section along a single fence like that unless the neighbor next door had 2000 acres of alfalfa and oats planted.

texags92....neither of us know what happened as well as my friend doesn't know. As I said earlier he started this for his 3&5 year old boys eight years ago. They are the ones that have put the time and effort into the feeders....maybe not much effort for you but a lot for them. I think he has done every thing right and has asked for and received lots of advice. All I have seen over the years is photos showing the progress of his efforts. They have water including the creek that caused the damage. He is not sure of the magnitude of his loss other than he isn't seeing many nor or they showing up on his game cameras.

There are all sorts of deer, elk & exotics all over the state in places they didn't use to be....maybe the grass was just greener on the other side of the hole in the fence.

I am with 89FordAg on this one. Well said

Ask any game biologist, the fence is to keep deer out, not to keep deer in. It's all about the buck to doe ration folks.

I wonder if back in the days the indians put up fences to keep the cowboys from shooting their buffalo.

I am not a big fan of high fences. I think it stems more from what one poster mentioned above about the changes in hunting over the last 20 years. I do understand the reasoning behin high fencing, and as long as it is a big ranch I think that is alright. I personally would rather hunt a low-fenced place over a high fenced ranch of the same size and terrain.

My biggest beef is with all the management programs and feeding programs. IMO it is almost like some hunters are raising cattle for slaughter. Fatten them up and give them as much protein as possible, build those antlers up and then shoot them.

I think it is pretty silly hearing about some hunting camps that videotape the deer and then the members vote as to whether the member can shoot the deer. I am sure (at least I hope) that is a practice of only a small fraction of hunters.

I do see some positives of all the game management and hunting programs. I think it is definitely important to preserve our wildlife habitat and the more money spent on the outdoors the better.

I guess I feel like I missed out on a really good time for Texas hunting, back when there was much less commercialization, and greed for big bucks and deer dollars, and it was much easier for Joe Hunter to find a lease and get some people together and hunt without having to donate a kidney.

I thank god that my family has a small plot of land because otherwise I may not be able to enjoy deer hunting.

I just hope that now and in the future people remember the most important part of hunting (at least to me), which is that you enjoy the outdoors and hunt with friends and family and pass along that enjoyment to others as well.

This letter was in the Letters to the Editor section of the CC Caller Times this past Sunday and certainly fits in with this thread.

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Fencing unfair

I noticed that my 30 acres near Benavides have been compromised. The landowner on my east side has started erecting a 10-foot game fence. The fence is 1 ½ miles on the highway frontage and will soon surround the large property.

I am angry that the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department doesn't seem to care that high fences around land are in effect penning up native animals for their own interests. Wild animals are the property of the citizens.

I read on the Parks and Wildlife Department's Web site: "It is the mission of the TP&W Department to ensure that game and non-game wildlife is around for centuries to come, both for the benefit of the wild creatures and the ecosystems they occupy, as well as for human beings."

Texas hunters who enjoy fair chase and free-range deer hunting should be upset that the department has a double standard for rich landowners. I believe the department is not looking after the rights of the average citizens of this state.

Luis G. DeLaRosa

(Portland)

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http://www.caller.com/news/2007/nov/18/letters/

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I came really close to starting a pissing contest over that letter. I'd like to know what that guy does toward habitat management. I'd like to know how many deer he and his kids, in-laws, cousins, friends, etc ....shot over the last few years. Does he have a feeder or food plot just over the fence from the big place? Is his place now totally fenced out, or is he now surrounded by 30 acre plots of folks shooting anything that walks? Is he willing to band togeather with the other neighbors for a management area even if it means he won't get to shoot but 2 or 3 deer next year and maybe no bucks?

A friend of mine near Hondo finally high fenced his 1600+ acres after a guy in the bordering subdivision (20 acre "ranchettes" bragged about shooting 27 deer off of his place the year before. Every "ranchette" had a feeder along the fenceline of the 1600 acre place.

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I came really close to starting a pissing contest over that letter. I'd like to know what that guy does toward habitat management. I'd like to know how many deer he and his kids, in-laws, cousins, friends, etc ....shot over the last few years. Does he have a feeder or food plot just over the fence from the big place? Is his place now totally fenced out, or is he now surrounded by 30 acre plots of folks shooting anything that walks? Is he willing to band togeather with the other neighbors for a management area even if it means he won't get to shoot but 2 or 3 deer next year and maybe no bucks?

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I think B1-83 hits it out of the park with this statement.

We border on nine ranches and a state park. When we high fenced, the park chipped in the cost of materials for a low fence. Of the nine ranches, two were already high-fenced, four paid half the cost of the fencing, and three didn't chip in anything. Of those three, two of them gave us a lot of crap about doing it.

The ranches that helped us out on the fence all happened to be ranches that were actively game managing. Of the three that didn't, one is a small ranch that doesn't allow hunting and doesn't care one way or the other. The other two happened to be the properties we have always had problems with (tresspassing, poaching, general BS shenanigans, etc). One of those ranches day leases, the other has a deer lease with way too many hunters and no restrictions placed on them. We had tried in the past to get both of them to buy into the MLDP system but they basically laughed in our face. They do nothing, nothing to help wildlife and never plan on doing so. they prefer to just beeotch about everything we and their other neighbors do. The day lease guys shoot anything that moves. The guys on the deer lease, you can guarantee that every first weekend in November you will see 2-3, 2.5 yr old eight points hanging from a tree at their camp. They don't try nor do they care to work on buck/doe ratio or cull out spikes, etc. Basically, they shoot a bunch of young bucks every November. Then the rest of the reason they drink, shoot their pistols, drink, wreck their ATV's, drink, start brush fires, shoot hogs and drink some more. Meanwhile we are pouring time, effort and a lot of money into the game management programs (not just deer), clearing cedar (very expensive), securing additional water sources and improving existing ones, doing controlled burns, actively decimating hogs, predator control and so on.

As I have stated before, I see and understand both the pros and cons for high fencing. I think some, some of the criticisms are legitimate. But I also know that for every landowner that is going to put in the time and effort to really manage their property, there are probably five that won't and never will and are more than happy to lease it out to guys who also don't care about it either.

Urban.....aren't you over near The Bend

I think what we see here is that each side has an image of the other that is probably unrealistic. The side against high fences imagines that most high fence ranches have satellite tracking and ear tags on the deer inside the fence and that the owner consults with a board of directors before allowing Joe Cigar to fly in from NYC to shoot his deer selected out of a catalog in a 1/2 acre kill pen for $20,000+. The side that is for high fences imagines most low fence fans to be Joe Sixpack who would rather shoot a 2.5 year old buck across a fence and spend the rest of the season getting drunk and riding 4-wheelers on their 10 acre ranchette.

Both views are myopic and probably combined represent less than 10% of the ranch owners on either side. Most of the other 90% falls in the middle between those two extremes has what they believe to be very good reasons why they are for or against high fences. The one argument that the high fencers can't overcome is that they are privatizing a state owned resource. I am not saying they may not be managing it in a manner superior to how it would be managed if it were low fenced...I am just saying that once the high fence goes up, that resource that once belonged to the state now belongs to that landowner. To me, TPWD allowing that to happen is a dereliction of their duty to the citizens of the state. I don't have a problem with the way most high fence ranches are managed...I just don't think TPWD has done a good enough job managing how high fencing has been implemented.

Sunchaser, are you sure they didn't get hit by poachers or bluetongue or something? I have heard of poachers basically cutting a fence, coming in with spotlights, and cleaning a place out. Also, I recall an outbreak of Blue tongue last fall before the rains came this spring. If they are way out west, that might have cost them quite a few deer.

He is around Hamilton. It was definately a heavy runoff in a creek bed crossing that ripped out a large portion of the fence. He for sure hasn't lost everything but he is not currently seeing the big bucks.