Thinking about getting a new TV. Not sure I can actually see the differences, but I don't want to buy one and then discover that I can, so I'm doing my usual overthinking and reading too many contradictory opinions on the web. So…why not confuse myself even more by seeing what TexAgs thinks!

Here's my sense of what I'm reading:

• LED TVs have a problem with motion blur due to the way they leave the pixels on between refreshes
  
• The actual source for most video is shot at < 60 fps, so higher refresh rates don't help by capturing intermediate frames that are lost at 60 Hz. Instead, they allow interpolation of stuff between frames.
  
• The stuff interpolated can either be a black or dimmed frame, to simulate the dark frame border in film (black frame insertion), or an interpolated image calculated by an algorithm (image interpolation).
  
• Image Interpolation leads to the Soap Opera Effect, where the picture looks cheesy and fake.
  
• Black Frame Insertion works well for motion blur, and does not cause the Soap Opera Effect, but it diminishes brightness so manufacturers are moving to improving their image interpretation algorithms. This is driven by the tendency of consumers to prefer brighter TVs in the showrooms.

Is all that correct? If yes, then it seems to me that I want to either

• look for a LED TV that uses Black Frame Insertion and take the brightness hit that I won't notice outside the TV showroom, or
  
• just buy some LED, turn off image interpolation and live with motion blur because my aging eyesight can probably see Soap Opera effect better than it can see motion blur, or
  
• say screw it and go for plasma before they stop making those.
  

If I go for the LED route and want to find one that does Black Frame Insertion, how can I tell?

What do y'all think?

The blur is coming from the content being 24 frames per second, not your TV. That's why there's no blur when you play video games at 60fps on an LCD.

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The blur is coming from the content being 24 frames per second, not your TV.

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Indeed. But I can't really change that when/if I buy a new one.

My understanding is that the 24fps from film is already processed to convert to 30fps and then frames are doubled to fit the NTSC 60Hz standard before anything arrives at my home via the cable. BlueRay players are different, IIRC (we don't have one).

eta: wrong emoticon

[This message has been edited by biobioprof (edited 5/31/2014 12:18p).]

TV is broadcast at 29.97fps in the US. The 60hz of your TV has nothing to do with it, that's merely a refresh rate, just like you can play a game on your 60hz PC monitor at 30fps.

The motion interpolation adds frames than can fill a 60/120/240 refresh rate.

Long story short, buy LCD because Plasma is dead tech. I wouldn't buy a new TV right now though, if you can't afford a 4K. They'll be very affordable in a year.

Plasma is not dead tech at all. The first TV I'd buy now is a Samsung F8500. Plasma TVs are immune from all motion blur effects.

Most of the things that create screwy images on LCD/LED TVs can be turned off. Most people who care about natural picture quality do so.

4K TVs are getting cheaper, but so far no one is raving about the picture quality. The pixel war is kinda silly. Upscaling 1080p (which is what will be happening for years to come) just doesn't deliver.

Much more promising is OLED, though prices are net yet in the reasonable range.

4K content is breathtaking and Netflix will be pumping out 4K streams this year. Idiots said the same stuff about 1080p.

Good backlight LED looks just as good as plasma without all the heat, heft, and thickness. Much easier to do maintenance on as well.

Saw some huge TV at best buy that was so ridiculously clear picture I would say you could see too much detail. It was playing transformers and it was in the middle of a huge fight scene with explosions and transformers fighting and people being tossed around. All of the special effects you could tell plainly were CGI. Even the set and the people had this weird effect like it was more apparent the whole thing was staged. It was amazingly more crisp and clear than the other TVs but it at the same time so much detail the effects became too obvious and didnt blend well with the background.

Is this soap opera effect something that only happens to HD movies and TV?

I wonder how sports look on these TVs.

The soap opera effect happens any time you display content that is normally 24fps at 60fps. It makes film look like video, and gives you a sense of presence that "you're there". It's great for sports, but terrible for sitcoms/movies. No one wants to feel like they're standing next to the camera watching a film get made.

The ISPs are going to throttle the heck out of those Netflix 4k streams.

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No one wants to feel like they're standing next to the camera watching a film get made.

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Yup, this is what I don't want. I want film to look like film and sports to look like sports.

4K may eventually be standard, but I may need to remodel our house if I want to fit a large enough screen to be able to see the differences with normal viewing. I estimate our usual viewing distance is between 8-12 feet. Which fits with some of the discussion about 4K online

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What the chart shows is that, for a 84-inch screen, 4k resolution isn’t fully apparent until you are at least 5.5 feet or closer to the screen. For a “tiny” 55-inch screen, you’ll need to be 3.5 feet or closer. Needless to say, most consumers aren’t going to sit close enough to see any of extra resolution 4k offers, much less 8k.

It’s important to note that research by Bernard Lechner (former VP of RCA Laboratories) found that the average viewing distance of American TV viewers to be 9 feet. This is substantially farther than the 5.5 foot distance required to fully resolve normal-sized 4k screens. I don’t see people rearranging their living rooms to take advantage of the otherwise unnoticeable UHD resolution benefits.

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It seems to me that soap opera effect, dynamic range, inhomogeneity etc. are easier to see under average viewing conditions.

HOWEVER: the huge caveat to the above is that it seems to me that 4K would be great for passive 3D even for moderate screen sizes. That leads to the whole question of whether 3D is worth it.

I'm also wondering, for those on the Nerdery:
- how often do you replace your TV?
- what screen size do you currently have?
- what screen size do you currently want?
- do you use 3D?

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Good backlight LED looks just as good as plasma without all the heat, heft, and thickness. Much easier to do maintenance on as well.

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You must be talking about the plasmas of yesteryear.

Samsung's 64 inch F8500 weighs 72 lbs. It is 1.9 inches deep.

Samsung's 65 inch LED weighs 55 lbs, and is 1.4 inches deep.

Do you think those differences are meaningful?

What maintenance do you do on a flat panel TV?

I wouldn't buy a plasma. If you watch a lot of ESPN or cnn or something else with a news scroll, it will eventually burn into the screen.

It must happen after 6 years, because it hasn't happened on my plasma yet.

Plasma tv still the best bang for buck and quality.

Only con I have with mine is the heat. Everything still working and looking as good and better than my newer LED and LCD tvs. Of course, my plasma is going on 9 years (Pioneer Elite) so newer ones might be more energy efficient. Sounds like they've definitely gotten smaller.

On a side note, my 62 inch Mitsubishi DLP rear projector is the beautiful monster that just won't die. When she's gone I'll upgrade to something bigger and shinier, but man she is a good piece of work.

Interesting thread. I'm not in the market but I keep eyeballing TV tech. I'm also one of those weirdos that still has the Mitsubishi 60" DLP and still love the picture on it. It is pretty huge but I have no complaints so don't plan on replacing it until I have to-- hopefully then 4D or something else will be in range.

Benny - my 2 1/2 year old Samsung plasma has no noticeable heat generation. You can feel a bit of heat inches from the panel itself, but otherwise it is trivial. Power consumption of plasmas has improved significantly, though still higher than LCD or "LED."

The soap opera effect (same as what the poster said about the transformers movie he saw in store) is because the default settings on the tv are setup for that. You want to watch sports with that setting, but not movies.

I got a samsung with some automation 240hz setting that came set with default. It was my first HDTV and didn't know anything about it. Quick google search gave me a list of all settings to change movies and regular tv shows.

Any tv you buy today will have settings you can change to get rid of the soap opera effect

[This message has been edited by 91_aggie (edited 6/1/2014 11:31a).]