When my oldest was applying for college, we met with counselors within departments to discuss their degree programs. We met with several engineering departments at A&M as well as other Universities.

I just got off the phone with someone in the Mays College of Business. I told them he applied to the COB, but was accepted into Economics, and that he would want to transfer to the COB later. They refused to set up a 1/2 hour appointment to meet with my son. Told me I need to talk to admissions.

I explained that I was interested in how the COB works. Interested in talking about summer job programs, placement opportunities, etc.. Also, I wanted to discuss the possibility of transfering later, what their counselors recommended taking, how many slots they usually have for transfer students transfering within Texas A&M. Several items I wanted to discuss face to face.

She said they don't talk to ANYONE that's not already a student in the Mays COB.

That was a surprise to me. Me, my wife, my father, my brother-in-law, his son, and my son all either have attended A&M or are currently attending A&M, yet the Mays College of Business can't spend 30 min talking to me. Looks like I need to manage my expectations.

UPO is great if you are in Mays or being actively recruited by Mays, but I've heard very underwhelming reviews for outsiders trying to get information.

The sheer number of students that are already enrolled in Mays and Dwight has gotten staggering. Not too mention the number of students that hope to transfer. Mays only accepts something like ~200 internal transfers, and ~75 external transfers each Fall (none for Spring and Summer). Just an overall pain for everyone involved. I would know as I was declined before accepted.

Stick with economics.

The folks who say we are "lowering the bar" with increased admissions are so ignorant. The average SAT score continues to skyrocket and the departments act as if they are too good/elite to engage students.

It is well known, and posted on the other thread that BUAD only advises individuals in Mays. Their advisors are stacked with their current work load. Having individuals take those spots that aren't in Mays would be doing the students in Mays a disservice as it would tie up necessary resources.

It's amazing how many people bash certain departments after not getting in. Now I understand the old adage, "The only happy Aggie is one that's complaining."

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Me, my wife, my father, my brother-in-law, his son, and my son all either have attended A&M or are currently attending A&M, yet the Mays College of Business can't spend 30 min talking to me. Looks like I need to manage my expectations.

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You don't need to manage your expectations, you need to do your due diligence before talking down about policies because you disagree with them.

Second, I've never seen such a blatent red herring in my career as your attempt to relate your extensive A&M pedigree as a reason you deserve to be spoken to vs someone else. I was a 5th generation Aggie with over 30 family members that have attended and graduated. I realize that A&M is drastically different then in 1899, 1923, 1943, 1952, 1972, 1974, 1985, 1987, 1991, 1995, 1997, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2009, or 2010. When my father was in the business school, it was a joke. A JOKE. Now the times have changed. There are about 10,000 students that would trade places with your son in a heartbeat.

Stop taking your frustration out about your son not getting the news he wanted on BUAD. They told you something you didn't want to hear. Why come on here and blast them? If you knew them, you'd know they are good people, good Ags, and bust their ass WAY more then they get paid to be part counselor, part advisor, part parental therapist. Oh yeah, and they NEVER get told what a great job they do.

I think you'd be better served keeping the visceral reaction private.

#gadgets is putting in work on this board

OP, there is information at this link:
http://mays.tamu.edu/upo/

One more thing, IF you really want an honest opinion about getting into Mays, your student was actually blessed to get into ECON. Why? Not because its the easiest COC into Mays. They have the best advisor on campus: Roy Mitchell. Roy has been advising students longer than TexAgs has existed, and longer then most advisors have been alive. In my entire career, I've NEVER heard of a degree plan he generated with a student that fit the requirements being rejected. He literally is the best of the best. Sarah Ura is great too. You could have asked the question: Who is the best ECON advisor to speak with about a COC into Mays? instead of going straight to Mays and trashing them about a policy created because the advising staff at Mays was completely overwhelmed between current and prospective students.

#Gadgets - I saw on another thread you mention the Ag-business with leadership. I am not familiar with it at all. How does it compare with business classes at May's? Can you expand on what you know about it? When I told my son about it he was intrigued. Can you suggest anyone to speak to?

There are two different, but very lucrative degrees that are a hybrid Ag and Business degree. The first is Ag Econ with an emphasis in one of 4 different business related areas (Finance and Real Estate, Rural Entrep, etc). A minor in business can also be earned. Here is the departments website: http://agecon.tamu.edu/undergraduate/future-students/

The other option is ALED with a minor in business. Here is there website: http://alec.tamu.edu/academics/undergraduate/afleadershippaled/aled-emphasis-area/

Another thing to explore that most students don't is the various certifications issued by departments.

A different, but perhaps interesting note is that both of the above majors result in very competitive agribusiness or ag econ masters students. I would recommend meeting with each department and deciding if either sparks his interest. Ag Econ especially has been a VERY lucrative career path the last 5 years. Several students eventually work for commercial banks or in house at large corporations. I hope that helps.

#Gadgets, do you know of a good Advisor to talk to about the Ag Leadership program?

Reid Stavinoha

Your son may have more luck trying to set something up and meeting with an individual or prof within one of the departments than trying to talk with the people at Admissions or the College office.

When I was going through the internal transferring process (declined by Mays, accepted by Look a year later), I found that talking to a professor/dept head provided more insightful advice. Additionally, I also found that the older professors, ones that are around retirement age and have been at A&M for a good while, are very open to mentoring and giving out advice.

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Me, my wife, my father, my brother-in-law, his son, and my son all either have attended A&M or are currently attending A&M, yet the Mays College of Business can't spend 30 min talking to me. Looks like I need to manage my expectations.

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You don't need to manage your expectations, you need to do your due diligence before talking down about policies because you disagree with them.

Second, I've never seen such a blatent red herring in my career as your attempt to relate your extensive A&M pedigree as a reason you deserve to be spoken to vs someone else. I was a 5th generation Aggie with over 30 family members that have attended and graduated. I realize that A&M is drastically different then in 1899, 1923, 1943, 1952, 1972, 1974, 1985, 1987, 1991, 1995, 1997, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2009, or 2010. When my father was in the business school, it was a joke. A JOKE. Now the times have changed. There are about 10,000 students that would trade places with your son in a heartbeat.

Stop taking your frustration out about your son not getting the news he wanted on BUAD. They told you something you didn't want to hear. Why come on here and blast them? If you knew them, you'd know they are good people, good Ags, and bust their ass WAY more then they get paid to be part counselor, part advisor, part parental therapist. Oh yeah, and they NEVER get told what a great job they do.

I think you'd be better served keeping the visceral reaction private.

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Lets get something straight.

1. It's really stupid to think my issue is that my son didn't get into Mays right away. I bet the folks in those departments had nothing to do with that.
2. I've already talked to Mr. Mitchell.
3. I'm amazed how lazy folks not in the real world are. When my oldest son was going thru this process, he was turned down from A&M. However, every department in Engineering was willing to talk to us. We got great advice in speaking face to face with these folks. They managed their time just fine. Of course, they are engineers.

This post you made is the perfect example of my point. Typical ivory tower academia that think their **** doesn't stink and if they have to meet with more than 2 or 3 people per day, they are bothered by having to work.

One more thing. This Texags is a place for opinions. I don't care if someone doesn't like my opinions or not and I really don't care that you think I should keep that opinion to myself.

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Your son may have more luck trying to set something up and meeting with an individual or prof within one of the departments than trying to talk with the people at Admissions or the College office.

When I was going through the internal transferring process (declined by Mays, accepted by Look a year later), I found that talking to a professor/dept head provided more insightful advice. Additionally, I also found that the older professors, ones that are around retirement age and have been at A&M for a good while, are very open to mentoring and giving out advice.

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Yes. We did just that with my oldestt. The biggest help was Kahuteck (I'm sure I butchered that spelling). I was hoping to do the same with the folks in Mays, which is why I called to set something up with them. It was tragic when he died.

Yeah Dr. Kohutek is a pretty good example. He wasn't one to sugar coat anything, but his door was always open; he would be direct and tell you what needed to be done and would also give you his honest opinion of your chances.

I was very impressed with him. You could tell he put students first.

Mays is a well-oiled machine. I can promise you that they do not dislike work over there. I can understand your frustration though.

I consider 80 hr work weeks plenty long. Your misplaced anger is more amusing than insulting at this point. I also don't work in academia o mighty omniscient one. Your inability to provide an opinion without personal attacks speaks volumes.

The notion you think there is some point you are "proving" only makes your misplaced hackneyed sanguineness more comical.

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Your inability to provide an opinion without personal attacks speaks volumes.

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Fact. College of Engineering will talk to those not in the COE
Fact. All other Colleges and departments will talk to those not in their departments or colleges
Fact. College of Business won't talk to those not in the COB

Opinion: College of Business is either really unorganized or really lazy. They display the typical ivory tower attitude that they are too busy to talk to anyone other than certain students, when every other college is willing to talk.

I didn't mean to say you either worked or don't work for the University. The ATTITUDE I was talking about. I don't know you from Adam, but I don't believe that these guys work any more than most other counselors in other Departments at A&M or any other college in the US.

I'm done on this. We have dealt with many folks at A&M and outside of A&M. I've never been told by any of them to go FO because they were too busy to talk. That is the basis of my opinion.

Is it just me, or is it getting heated in here?

You are both right, though, each in your own way.

The taxpayers and legislature have asked that schools operate as a business and trim as much as possible from their budgets. Most departments have been running lean on staff even as enrollment has increased. I don't know how many advisors Mays Business has, but if I had to guess it would be around 6-8 maybe? 8 people for a College of Business whose undergraduate numbers are 10% of the student population of the University as a whole. (I'm rounding here.) That is close to 5000 students, at least for Fall of 2014. (That doesn't include the upperclassmen advisors nor do I know how many graduate student helper advisors there are.) That's a lot of students and it doesn't include the numbers of prospective students. I am also assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that it doesn't include the Blinn Students wanting to transfer.
For all I know, there are a thousand people contacting them each week trying to get an appointment. Okay, I'm exaggerating, but you get the idea. It may be that you encountered the one person who was coming down with whatever nasty virus has been spreading around the community this week (I had one home sick with it this weekend) and he/she had an off day. For that, I am sorry; the friends and neighbors that I know that work for A&M really do work hard to make this University the special place it has always been. Edited to add: if every other College is available to meet, then it sounds like the typical attitude is one of helpful service. That is a good thing!

It also could have something to do with the timing on the Academic Calendar. In addition to the admissions decisions being finalized, I have a friend whose son is graduating (yeah!) and I believe the deadline to turn in your info is this week. That might put offices in a crunch, too. Like the poster above remarked, making an appointment with individual faculty or departments might be easier. If advising becomes centralized (I really hope my current student graduates before this happens) as it was something that had been discussed by upper level administration, then things could get really fun.

Businesses employ gatekeepers to funnel customers to the appropriate contact and it looks like you ran up against a few. It sounds like you're on track to figure out to whom you need to speak so best of luck to you and your future Aggie.


*As far as the cartoon above goes, I am sympathetic to parents of prospective students: the student is a senior in high school and should be in class at school. Some of this tracking down info does take time during the day (when people are at work). My kiddo drafted emails at night and sent them then, but you need some lead time for that, and some folks don't have that luxury. I give them the benefit of the doubt. I advise students to do a lot of that legwork in the summer (including your 'backup backup' plan) but that is not only not an option for some students/parents there is the added difficulty of prodding a senior-to-be to do much of anything sometimes.

Effective Date: Fall 2013 - Summer 2014 (subject to annual review)Mays Business School limits the number of undergraduate students admitted to the school to 1,200 per year through the enrollment management program described below. Appeal processes are available for students who believe their circumstances warrant special consideration.Freshman Admission: (Target admission for 2013-2014 = 1000 students)

• Admission will be granted, on a space-available basis, to freshman applicants who meet Office of Admissions requirements for business and who declare Mays Business School as their first choice by May 1, 2014.

EXTERNAL Transfer Student Admission: (Target admission for 2013-2014 = 100 students)

• Transfer admission to Mays Business School generally requires strict and comprehensive adherence to Table 1 of "Degree Track E prior to submission of the application.
• Transfer applicants will be admitted on a competitive basis through a comprehensive application review process for summer or fall admission only.
• Transfer applicants are expected to have completed and excelled in substantially all 27 hours of graded foundation courses in Table 1 of the "Degree Track E." It is especially important to have credit for both required math courses before applying. Successful applicants typically have a combination of "As" and "Bs" in this foundation course work and a high overall GPA. The entire application, including essays, is considered in identifying admissible candidates.

INTERNAL Transfer (i.e., Change-of-Curriculum) Student Admission: (Target admission for 2013-2014 = 100 students)

• To apply for change of curriculum to Mays Business School, certain requirements must be met, including successful completion of a subset of specific courses and a cumulative GPA of 3.3 or greater in a minimum of 30 graded hours at Texas A&M University and a maximum of 60 total hours (including transfer credit and pass/fail courses).
• Change of curriculum information
• Change of curriculum FAQs

EDIT: The restrictions have gotten way worse for internal transfers even compared to just 2011.

This seems to be a simple supply and demand issue. The business school is one if the most highly demanded colleges at A&M and once people get in, they rarely leave. The college of engineering will talk to people because over time a large number of engineering students will transfer out (I saw it all around me). This they have holes to fill over time unlike the business school. No other colleges come anywhere close in terms of demand. On top of that, the business school needs to maintain higher standards because the quality of the people has a big impact on the reputation of the business school. In my opinion, your son should be doing all the heavy lifting, not you. I took lead on everything that had an impact on my college career and I think that was in part why I was successful. Have you stopped to ask yourself he didn't get into mays and see if there are areas for improvement? So many people are quick to blame others and refuse to face the hard truths

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The college of engineering will talk to people because over time a large number of engineering students will transfer out (I saw it all around me)

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While I wont disagree with you that many folks transfer out of engineering, I would argue that the majority do so before taking any substantial amount of classes within their respective department/being given the upper level distinction (i.e., they've really only been exposed to classes in the College of Science and College of Math).

Having only anecdotal evidence from my in the CoE, I'd be willing to bet that the number of transfers into the CoE is on par with the target numbers listed above for the business school. The semester I was admitted, there were only 10 of us who were admitted as transfers (into Civil..I'm assuming the numbers were probably similar in Mechanical, probably less in Chem E and Nuclear, etc).

As to OPs original point, I believe he's simply just frustrated with the unwillingness to communicate further and wanted to vent, and not so much that he's angry his kid didn't get in. I honestly don't think he's a helicopter parent...if the kid was already at A&M, yeah then probably so. But it sounds like he's just trying to help out from the role of someone who's been here and gone through it before as a student.

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But it sounds like he's just trying to help out from the role of someone who's been here and gone through it before as a student.

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No, it sounds like asshurt because Mays Business School UPO doesn't waste time on non-students.

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But it sounds like he's just trying to help out from the role of someone who's been here and gone through it before as a student.

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No, it sounds like asshurt because Mays Business School UPO doesn't waste time on non-students.

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Which, as a graduate of the COB sounds like good business to me.

Wow some of y'all are pretty thin skinned. I actually attended Mays and had difficulty at times finding people to talk to me. I was Agribusiness and the advisors didn't really know how to help since there were very few in my situation. However, I understand they work hard and have a lot on their plates, but I can understand the OP's view. And refusing to talk to people is not good business no matter who you are.

" refusing to talk to people is not good business no matter who you are."

Wrong. It keeps you from wasting opportunity cost that can be translated into your required rate of equity. Thus, wasting time is net negative.

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The sheer number of students that are already enrolled in Mays and Dwight has gotten staggering. Not too mention the number of students that hope to transfer. Mays only accepts something like ~200 internal transfers, and ~75 external transfers each Fall (none for Spring and Summer). Just an overall pain for everyone involved. I would know as I was declined before accepted.

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False. They do accept the 75 transfers during Spring.

not sure why the op sounds surprised by his experience. i've never been involved with mays, but this thread got me interested and it plainly states on the upo website (http://mays.tamu.edu/upo/):

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Non-business majors considering a potential change of curriculum to Mays Business School should make an appointment to meet with their academic advisor in their current major or department to discuss educational goals and interests, as well as eligibility and procedures for a potential change in major.

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No, Mays doesn't accept external transfers during the Spring.

It accepts transfers for the Summer, only if they need INFO 210. So they can take it during the Summer, and begin Jr. level courses as soon as Fall begins. Which is what I did.

Check Transfer Admissions and click on Mays Business School

EDITS: Tried posting the actual text from the website but it was coming out weird.

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not sure why the op sounds surprised by his experience. i've never been involved with mays, but this thread got me interested and it plainly states on the upo website (http://mays.tamu.edu/upo/):

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Non-business majors considering a potential change of curriculum to Mays Business School should make an appointment to meet with their academic advisor in their current major or department to discuss educational goals and interests, as well as eligibility and procedures for a potential change in major.

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But the OP is special because he, his wife and a bunch of other family members went to A&M. Surely he can't be expected to follow procedure like everyone else!

When I was applying to transfer from Blinn I wanted in to Mays. It wasn't too hard to get an appointment for me. It was an abrupt "Sorry but just try another department." Applied/accepted to Econ. Agree with what has been said about checking the webpage for students. It tells you the information about changes of curriculum.