Not sure why you would need the JD part. Most executives solely have the MBA.

I had a VP at a large organization tell me that given the choice between hiring someone with an MBA, JD or EDD/PHD, all things being equal, they would hire the JD every time. Something about the way they help students think critically and watch out for potholes others don't see.

Dontbwastevyour time or money on a JD/MBA. It can signal that you dont know what you want. If you want to be an exec get an MBA at a top school.

Why would you need a JD?

You have people for that. Management is knowing what you need to delegate to who, you dont need to study anything to know that honestly.

In the US, an MBA is like a "management potential certificate" but I honestly dont believe that you can teach management nor leadership, both things can be honed but are inborn qualities.

As stonana said .. if you want to signal that you are interested in personnel responsibility, you should be clear with that from your education from the get-go.

Also since no top-tier MBA program is going to take you without work experience, you will find out in the first six months if you are even capable of differentiating yourself such that you will get a look as a manager. If you dont get some sort of project or small team responsibility before you qualify for a serious MBA program, you might want to reassess if you actually have the stuff to have personnel responsibility, because clearly your superiors have not trusted you with it.

Summary: Go work, if you have the stuff it will crystalize, if not, you will know it.

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Management is knowing what you need to delegate to who, you dont need to study anything to know that honestly.

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I think you need to stick to engineering!

CivilizedAg,

I think the idea of a JD/MBA is tempting, but as I mentioned I wouldn't waste your time. I actually looked into the Kellogg (Northwestern University) JD/MBA because it was only 3 years instead of the usual 4. At the end of the day, I knew I couldn't tell a good story why it made sense (because it didn't). Instead of applying to that, I liked Kellogg's dual degree programs and I applied to and got into the Triple M (MMM) program which is an MBA and MEM (Master in Engineering Management with a focus on design or operations). This was an easy story for me as I had been a manager in an operations capacity and came from an engineering undergrad degree. I ultimately chose to go elsewhere, but I found this to be an attractive option.

As Randy mentioned, go get some work experience. I can promise you that an MBA without solid work experience is not worth much. At best, you might get a $5K bump or something because the company pays people with masters degrees more.

You mentioned you are young, and I think it is good you are trying to figure this all out. Ask yourself these questions...Do I want to be a lawyer? If no, do not pursue a JD at all. Do I want to get an MBA? If yes, then wait until you have at least a couple of years under your belt, try to get some significant work experience, and then apply to top programs. If you want to go part time for an MBA, you should still wait a few years. If that is the case, I would consider SMU or UT.

If you had opportunity to go to Kellogg for MBA and went elsewhere, I hope you went to HBS or you're not as smart as your test scores say you are!

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I think you need to stick to engineering!

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What do you really need to learn in an MBA? I took MBA courses during my MS at A&M and they didnt really teach me anything that I didnt already know as a person who contemplates the world around him.

Since I work in Germany, almost no upper management has MBAs .. why? Because you can find good managers from engineers but its much harder to instill that technical background and understanding into a manager. A PhD in engineering is the German MBA, just that its much harder to get and you have to really know something to get it.

As I said, some people are leaders and have the capability to manage people and projects, all of the upper management that I have met have said the same thing. They said that engineers who want to lead tend to lift themselves up above the pack and through their capability and desire show that they have potential for personnel responsibility. Those who are "you should stick to engineering" dont. It was clear the first day of ENGR111 who the "leaders" were and who were the followers .. in fact each of our groups were assigned a leader, so it seems that being a leader is something that someone already possesses without any college education.

Of course Im sure you know better than me and are allowed to have an opinion, however from my experience it is the other way around and a degree is simply the certificate to prove what you were born as.

Randy - Your entire post suggests that you have no clue about the responsibilities of executive management. You make it out like everyone in management is nothing better than a project manager who delegates tasks, manages schedule and tries to kick their underlings in the ass. This might be the case in engineering, but executives in other functions do quite a bit more than that.

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In the US, an MBA is like a "management potential certificate" but I honestly dont believe that you can teach management nor leadership, both things can be honed but are inborn qualities.

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Nope... not even close. First, MBAs rarely teach people how to manage people or schedules. Additionally, while there might be some discussion of leadership, etc, it is usually more of a retrospective view of what not to do rather than some primer on "how to be a leader".

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What do you really need to learn in an MBA? I took MBA courses during my MS at A&M and they didn't really teach me anything that I didnt already know as a person who contemplates the world around him.

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So you took a few MBA electives at A&M while you did your MS and now you're an expert on the subject. Glad to know you have it all figured out.

What do you need to learn? - First, an MBA is a great way to build a strong foundation in business concepts beyond engineering. Finance, accounting, business strategy, operations, etc. Second, an MBA also allows you to dive deeply into areas that you would like to dive into post MBA (e.g. financial valuation, operations / supply chain, strategy, entrepreneurship, marketing). Finally, the experience of getting an MBA and the ability to network with other students, professors and guest speakers provides opportunities that you can't get from the engineering school of hard knocks.

I'll be the first to admit that the academic difficulty of an MBA is laughable compared to engineering, but that's not the sole point of the degree.

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Since I work in Germany, almost no upper management has MBAs .. why? Because you can find good managers from engineers but its much harder to instill that technical background and understanding into a manager. A PhD in engineering is the German MBA, just that its much harder to get and you have to really know something to get it.

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It is also because that's the culture in Germany. There are few top notch MBA programs in Europe (let alone Germany) and they as a culture are much more inclined towards the hard sciences / engineering. However, in my consulting firm's German office, the ratio of MBAs to PHDs is about 1:1. Most of MBAs are German nationals with local engineering degrees and US MBAs.

Honestly, once your are an executive, you really shouldn't be exerting a bunch of "engineering brain power" unless you are directly responsible for engineering / design / R&D.

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As I said, some people are leaders and have the capability to manage people and projects, all of the upper management that I have met have said the same thing. They said that engineers who want to lead tend to lift themselves up above the pack and through their capability and desire show that they have potential for personnel responsibility. Those who are "you should stick to engineering" dont. It was clear the first day of ENGR111 who the "leaders" were and who were the followers .. in fact each of our groups were assigned a leader, so it seems that being a leader is something that someone already possesses without any college education.

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Agreed. However, top tier MBA programs don't take the "you should stick to engineering" guys.

Back to the OP - As I mentioned in your other thread on the job board, don't get the JD.

[This message has been edited by AeroAg2003 (edited 3/16/2012 8:49a).]

[This message has been edited by stonana (edited 3/17/2012 8:47p).]

No one should do a JD/MBA program. It creates a recruiting nightmare. Having practiced 30+ years and been a recruiting partner for a big firm, I can tell you law firms are leery of JD/MBA's wondering why a person can't figure out what they want to be. If you're interested in management, work a few years and then get a quality MBA. You can take the GMAT any time, and your scores are good for 5 years. If you want to be a lawyer, go for it NOW - take the LSAT, talk to Karen Severn, and good luck. Engineer/attorneys are highly sought after.

Most top ranked JD/MBA I know go into IB or Capital Markets.

Fitz-

I am completing a JD/MBA in May, but I have taken extra hours so that the JD is completely independent of the MBA. Could I get in touch with you off the boards to get some advice on avoiding recruiter concerns about the MBA?

I can't PM, but my e-mail is in my profile.

If you want to be a lawyer, get the law degree, but understand that you will likely accrue massive debt with limited job prospects and a fairly stressful career path. Most people should not go to law school.

As for the MBA, unless you enjoy pissing money away, do not get one unless your employer pays for it with a part time program. Again, for high-paying post-MBA careers there's limited prospects unless you go to a top school full time, and even assuming you go to a top school and accrue six figure debt with hundreds of thousands in total opportunity costs once you factor in lost work, the jobs that do pay significantly more than you make now are all fairly terrible and generally not sustainable long term for most folks. It's even worse than law in that regard.

Crock is right, most executives have MBA's and I don't know how relevant a JD is. I enrolled in a executive education program before getting my MBA and it benefited me greatly. Also, strengthens your resume.

Two things you can do now.

1) Get the GMAT under your belt.


2) Get the applications from a few schools you might target, read the essays, and then go get the type of experience you need to give a good answer when its time to apply

Being in management is the biggest racket ever created.

I would get a Engineering Management Master's Degree. Purdue has a great Master's online in Engineering Management.

[This message has been edited by Burnetaggie99 (edited 8/6/2012 8:50p).]