In a country so big and diverse, all 330M plus of us are supposed to fit in nicely between 2 parties.

Dan Scott said:

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In a country so big and diverse, all 330M* plus of us are supposed to fit in nicely between 2 parties.

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*400MM. Have to count the illegals and dead.

So if we split up into multiple parties how is that any better? Do y'all follow Europe? All you are doing is spreading incompetence, fraud, and poor governance across 2+ parties. And then you are asking for frequent government failures and having to compromise positions with other parties just to get government working.

At this point, it probably doesn't matter which system we adopt but wanting more than two parties solves nothing.

But standing behind Trump blindly is ok.

TAMC28 said:

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Mainstream politics are built for unintelligent people solely for engagement purposes. To stand behind a party blindly is beyond dumb. Those who need purpose or involvement resort to political parties to be apart of something larger than themselves. Political parties truly worsen this country.

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That's a bold statement for a first F16 thread with no support given. We'd be glad to hear your thoughts on an alternative.

A part

I used to go down ballot, vote for some democrats, vote for some republicans. Hell, I cant even do that anymore way down the ballot, because even the democrat council person is a radical, whites are the problem, Marxist. Sorry, but I am not going to vote for someone who tears down our country.

TAMC28 said:

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The alternative is people forgetting blind party lines and develop their own independent views that better the country. Politics shouldn't be riddled with propaganda and misinformation.

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Well, sure.... but let us sane, normal people know when the Democrat Party adopts views that better the country.

Until such time, we are forced to vote Republican to keep them out of office so they can't destroy us.

Having national politics with no parties involved and everyone is just "independent" will never happen. It defies human behavior.

YouBet said:

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So if we split up into multiple parties how is that any better? Do y'all follow Europe? All you are doing is spreading incompetence, fraud, and poor governance across 2+ parties. And then you are asking for frequent government failures and having to compromise positions with other parties just to get government working.

At this point, it probably doesn't matter which system we adopt but wanting more than two parties solves nothing.

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If we split up into multiple parties, or institute something like rank choice voting, a guy like Thomas Massie (and those like him) would pull people from all sides of the political spectrum and could attempt to completely gut the bloated and criminal organization we call the United States government down to the studs. He'd also be able to implement many actual conservative policies that so many faux conservatives on here pretend to support.

On the other side of things, Liberals would actually be able to attempt to implement the communism, socialism, and whatever else their voters actually want instead of the same corporatocracy that is and always will be on offer from both parties.

At the end of the day though you're ultimately right, the uniparty isn't going to let middle America vote its' way out of serfdom.

TAMC28 said:

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The alternative is people forgetting blind party lines and develop their own independent views that better the country. Politics shouldn't be riddled with propaganda and misinformation.

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Right, but based on our political system, it will always boil down to 2 parties (they've done the math), and no matter what, those 2 parties will differentiate and demonize for their own marketing purposes. Propaganda and misinformation is the bedrock of marketing, and that is all that politics is. Politics is just a reflection of our society as it is today.

So I get what you are saying, but what exactly does the party system have to do with being an informed person? No matter how informed and independent you are, you still only have 2 choices, and the more informed you are, the more one of those parties is going to match your "independent thought".

Dallas82 said:

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But standing behind Trump blindly is ok.

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You voted for a hag that epitomized using "word salad" as her talking style.

Your opinion on pretty much anything is worthless

I will crawl across bloken glass to vote against radical leftism and the sociopathic misery and needless suffering it will result in. I don't love the ineptitude of the current Conservative Party and don't hate honest left leaning people with naive good intent but it is very risky to empower radical leftists by inaction or by despondency or out of useless spite that my alternatives aren't better. 60% of what I want is WAY better than zero percent.

SteveA said:

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It wasn't as bad when the parties didn't cater as much to the more extreme left and right. Unfortunately, it's hard to be a moderate in either party now.

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I take umbrage with this. There is nothing extreme at all about the Republican Party.

The moderate party is the Republican Party.

This country has only moved left and that includes both parties. I wish the Republicans were more conservative than they are, but unfortunately they have adopted left wing spending philosophy.

I'd prefer a ranked choice system that freed us from the two party tyranny of First Past the Post's inevitable math but unfortunately the only way we could get that is if the two parties that benefit the most from FPTP changed it

Maroon Dawn said:

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I'd prefer a ranked choice system that freed us from the two party tyranny of First Past the Post's inevitable math but unfortunately the only way we could get that is if the two parties that benefit the most from FPTP changed it

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Unfortunately that's a system too easily gamed and honestly just rewards bad ideas simply because of the sheer number of possible bad ideas out there

jagged said:

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MelvinUdall said:

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TAMC28 said:

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Mainstream politics are built for unintelligent people solely for engagement purposes. To stand behind a party blindly is beyond dumb. Those who need purpose or involvement resort to political parties to be apart of something larger than themselves. Political parties truly worsen this country.

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The disparity between the 2 parties couldn't be more drastic…before the lines were blurred a little, now not so much…so it has become a lot more easy to take a side…do I like Trump a person, not so much, but do I like his policies a lot more than what Hillary/Biden/Harris offers, 1000%…it used to not be that clear…just go back to Bill Clinton, that is who Trump is now, from a policy perspective…now look at who the Dems offer up and their policies…it is a drastic move to the left and now they are folding in DSA members into their party…so yeah, I will vote for the party that isn't a freak show.

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yeah this is nonsense that plays well here for calling all libs a monolith of DSA commie loving screwballs. Dems are one thring yet republicans are nuanced….Sure the disparity between the party extremes is stark though.

And what policies of Trump do you like? Tariffs? Self-idolation? Crypto-schemes, market front-running, pay-for-pardons/influence?

Borders, Trump accounts, Prescription costs, AI seem to be the only real progress and everything else is becoming a **** show.

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All fair questions, border, crime, and taxes…all things that directly impact me…not a fan of the tariffs, however I see where is he is going with it all…moving away from woke/trans stuff, and truly trying to get away from racial politics…

Question for you, what are the Democrats offering? What will they do in full power? What will they do to handle inflation? We already saw that Biden dumped $1.5 trillion into the economy with his Inflation "Reduction" Act…what of you feel a full Democrat controlled economy will do?

Bucketrunner said:

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Well one party loves our country, one doesn't. It isn't all that hard.

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This seems to be a common sentiment. I'll agree that the left leaders, and most of their followers, despise the Constitution and what the USA has stood for. However, the current leadership on the "right" hasn't shown me much love for Americans other than illusions of patriotism.

Your typical Trump voter is likely to be more patriotic than a leftist voter, but I've learned that leaders in both parties hate us.

YouBet said:

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SteveA said:

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It wasn't as bad when the parties didn't cater as much to the more extreme left and right. Unfortunately, it's hard to be a moderate in either party now.

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I take umbrage with this. There is nothing extreme at all about the Republican Party.

The moderate party is the Republican Party.

This country has only moved left and that includes both parties. I wish the Republicans were more conservative than they are, but unfortunately they have adopted left wing spending philosophy.

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Trump is buying diesel from Putin which will be used to bomb Ukrainian civilians and send Iran intel and materiel to bomb us. That's pretty extreme to me, and crickets from most of the Republican Party, which is now just the Trump party.

dmart90 said:

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Bucketrunner said:

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Well one party loves our country, one doesn't. It isn't all that hard.

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The other side says exactly that same thing about your side.

That's how mainstream politics works.

HTH.

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One side actively votes (congress) against the interests of this country.

Actual deeds trump rhetoric.

How's the national debt looking these days?

Funky Winkerbean said:

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dmart90 said:

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Bucketrunner said:

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Well one party loves our country, one doesn't. It isn't all that hard.

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The other side says exactly that same thing about your side.

That's how mainstream politics works.

HTH.

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One side actively votes (congress) against the interests of this country.

Actual deeds trump rhetoric.

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No. Both sides act in the best interests' of the Country (the deep state and the corporations and oligarchs that own it.)

What neither party ever does or ever will do is act in the best interests of the citizens of the United States of America.

TAMC28 said:

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Mainstream politics are built for unintelligent people solely for engagement purposes. To stand behind a party blindly is beyond dumb. Those who need purpose or involvement resort to political parties to be apart of something larger than themselves. Political parties truly worsen this country.

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Disagree. Not hard to stand behind a party when there are only two to pick from. One is for secure borders and one is not. After that they both have issues, spend tax payer money poorly, and make lots of promises they don't keep.

But I vote for the one that keeps my family safest. That is not a hard decision and must make me dumb according to the OP.

Malibu said:

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YouBet said:

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SteveA said:

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It wasn't as bad when the parties didn't cater as much to the more extreme left and right. Unfortunately, it's hard to be a moderate in either party now.

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I take umbrage with this. There is nothing extreme at all about the Republican Party.

The moderate party is the Republican Party.

This country has only moved left and that includes both parties. I wish the Republicans were more conservative than they are, but unfortunately they have adopted left wing spending philosophy.

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Trump is buying diesel from Putin which will be used to bomb Ukrainian civilians and send Iran intel and materiel to bomb us. That's pretty extreme to me, and crickets from most of the Republican Party, which is now just the Trump party.

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Typical foreign policy shenanigans perpetrated by both parties in the modern era. Not excusing it but it's SOP by both. So, I really don't care because I'm talking about domestic policy.

Fact is the Republicans are the moderate party. Objectively can't be argued when the Democrats are fighting a current civil war against communists who literally want to flush the Constitution while multiple polls show Democrats want Marxism and half support Sharia Law (Rasmussen).

I can post the political spectrum meme but I doubt I need to. It's truth and we all know it.