primary/secondary education earns an "F"

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Over_ed
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2:24p, 5/17/26
AG
https://time.com/article/2026/05/16/student-test-scores-reading-math-us/

Stanford has released new reading/writing scores for school districts across the US and they are abysmal - unprecedented-ly bad.

Quick historical review of student reading/writing performance:
1970 - 90 Slow steady improvement
1990 - 05 Sharp improvement - particularly in minority/low income
2005 - 15 Plateau
2015 - 25 Precipitous decline

Between 2015 and 2025 students lost an average of between .5 year and 1.4 full years of learning. So - the equivalent of previous generation leaving school around the end of their Junior year.

The elephants in the room -
dismantling of no child left behind with it's required testing
increased children's screen time
increased chronic absenteeism
COVID closures

The good news - the past couple of years have seen slight increases, particularly in states with early literacy reforms : Maryland, Louisiana, Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Mississippi, Montana, and the District of Columbia.

Same comment I have made in at least 6 OPs over the past 2 years- parents need to get their kids unhooked from their screens. Please.
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boulderaggie
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2:25p, 5/17/26
AG
All part of the plan
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rocky the dog
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2:36p, 5/17/26
AG






I could go on...
Elections are when people find out what politicians stand for, and politicians find out what people will fall for.
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Pooh-ah95_ESL
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2:52p, 5/17/26
AG

"Same comment I have made in at least 6 OPs over the past 2 years- parents need to get their kids unhooked from their screens. Please."

This is my biggest issue with education today and I think DIEECTLY linked to falling scores. Replacing books with online learning is terrible. This situation makes it nearly impossible to keep track of what kids are doing or learning and interacting with parents with homework. The days of assisting with homework over the dinner table are over. Additionally I will always argue that the hard sciences require pen to paper for most people to learn. Having two kids who have recently completed high school in a well respected district I have many concerns and cannot imagine what it may be like in a challenging district. Bring back text book learning.
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pdc093
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2:56p, 5/17/26


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ErnestEndeavor
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3:02p, 5/17/26
About 15 to 20 years ago it became a huge trend to drop phonics and adopt a ridiculous, unscientific whole word context reading method developed by one moron academic researcher who was apparently a very good marketer.

Instead of sounding out words to train their brains on pattern recognition, kids were taught to memorize.

Many if not most states are going back to phonics education for young elementary school kids and it's already paying huge dividends. Mississippi shot way up in the reading rankings in just a few short years when they re-adopted phonics.

There's a lot more to it than just this, but it's a factor.
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Rapier108
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In reply to ErnestEndeavor • 3:05p, 5/17/26
Dropping phonics started in the 80s. When I was in second grade, they quit using it. We had used it in Kindergarten and 1st grade.

Thankfully my mom would help me using phonics. I consider myself lucky in that regard because who knows how much I would have struggled later in school.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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aggiehawg
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In reply to ErnestEndeavor • 3:08p, 5/17/26
AG
ErnestEndeavor said:
About 15 to 20 years ago it became a huge trend to drop phonics and adopt a ridiculous, unscientific whole word context reading method developed by one moron academic researcher who was apparently a very good marketer.

Instead of sounding out words to train their brains on pattern recognition, kids were taught to memorize.

Many if not most states are going back to phonics education for young elementary school kids and it's already paying huge dividends. Mississippi shot way up in the reading rankings in just a few short years when they re-adopted phonics.

There's a lot more to it than just this, but it's a factor.

Going to quibble a little. If one does not have excellent reading skills, every other subject they study will also suffer. History, for instance. Sciences for another. I doubt they even teach English Lit or English Composition anymore.
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doubledog
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3:15p, 5/17/26
Let's face it. Many teachers today can not teach the basics, reading, writing, science and mathematics. But they can tell you that Heather has two mommies.
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reineraggie09
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In reply to Over_ed • 3:29p, 5/17/26
AG
Quote:
parents need to get their kids unhooked from their screens. Please.


We went full Anxious Generation way before the book. And we home school. Eldest just tested at 6th grade reading level at 7 years old. Schools waste money and time. The whole system needs a reboot.
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aggie93
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In reply to doubledog • 3:45p, 5/17/26
AG
doubledog said:
Let's face it. Many teachers today can not teach the basics, reading, writing, science and mathematics. But they can tell you that Heather has two mommies.

There are still excellent teachers out there but there are some hard realities people don't want to face.

For instance the quality of student who goes into teaching has dropped consistently for the last 40 years. This is in part due to feminism. My Aunt for instance was brilliant. She graduated from High School at 14 and went to a West Texas State and graduated with honors to become a teacher and remained one for 40 years. Top student women used to go into teaching but now they go into other fields that pay better or just because they are encouraged to do so. Even from the '80s I knew girls at the top of our class who went into Education but you just don't see that now, for my boys recent classes I don't know of anyone in the Top 25% who wanted to go into education (outside of some that wanted to be college profs).

Education departments now have some of the lowest standards of admittance and lowest overall quality of graduates. There are exceptions but not a lot. It's become more about employment and benefits for the teachers and the best teachers generally want to go into Administration where the money is.

The best teachers my sons had were actually folks that worked in industry of some kind and decided to teach. They had some amazing folks like that but very few that were lifelong teachers, especially under the age of 45. I don't know how this gets fixed and that doesn't even account for all the other problems.

The other big thing is the evolution of homeschooling and online learning. Covid showed a LOT of parents the need to send your kid to sit in a classroom all day is not for everyone and it is easier than ever to learn in different ways. You also are seeing homeschool kids thriving at the University level.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

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YouBet
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In reply to Pooh-ah95_ESL • 4:09p, 5/17/26
AG
Pooh-ah95_ESL said:

"Same comment I have made in at least 6 OPs over the past 2 years- parents need to get their kids unhooked from their screens. Please."

This is my biggest issue with education today and I think DIEECTLY linked to falling scores. Replacing books with online learning is terrible. This situation makes it nearly impossible to keep track of what kids are doing or learning and interacting with parents with homework. The days of assisting with homework over the dinner table are over. Additionally I will always argue that the hard sciences require pen to paper for most people to learn. Having two kids who have recently completed high school in a well respected district I have many concerns and cannot imagine what it may be like in a challenging district. Bring back text book learning.


Using AI to cheat may actually result in some level of pullback. Some colleges have gone back to blue books for exams and one of the Ivy Leagues (Yale I think) announced last week they are going to start having proctors in the classroom during tests.

Going back in time.
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OldArmy71
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In reply to Pooh-ah95_ESL • 4:18p, 5/17/26
AG

Quote:
Replacing books with online learning is terrible. This situation makes it nearly impossible to keep track of what kids are doing or learning and interacting with parents with homework. The days of assisting with homework over the dinner table are over.


Absolutely this.

I am a retired professor/public school teacher.

My granddaughter is a high school junior in what used to be an excellent district.

She has no textbooks that I am aware of. She never brings any home.

She has not read a book in high school. She was assigned one over the summer before this year, but she never read it and was never held accountable for it.

She has never read a word of Shakespeare, and she has been in Pre-AP and honors and AP/Dual Credit English for three years.

The district is afraid to assign books to read because they fear no one will read them and the kids will fail, which they are not allowed to do.

It is a *********unmitigated mess as far as English.

Now it is true that she has had some bad luck with her teachers. Her freshman teacher quit early on and she had substitutes for a year. I forget what happened last year. This year her teacher has gone through cancer and a divorce.

Quote:

Education departments now have some of the lowest standards of admittance and lowest overall quality of graduates.


All too true. I hate to say this, but even when I was still teaching (and then subbing for a few years) 17 years ago, the young teachers did not know much and were incapable of teaching anything at length and that required close analysis: Emerson, Thoreau, Melville, Dickinson, Whitman, Faulkner.

I do think her AP history and AP stats classes were good.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to OldArmy71 • 4:24p, 5/17/26
AG
OldArmy71 said:

Quote:
Replacing books with online learning is terrible. This situation makes it nearly impossible to keep track of what kids are doing or learning and interacting with parents with homework. The days of assisting with homework over the dinner table are over.


Absolutely this.

I am a retired professor/public school teacher.

My granddaughter is a high school junior in what used to be an excellent district.

She has no textbooks that I am aware of. She never brings any home.

She has not read a book in high school. She was assigned one over the summer before this year, but she never read it and was never held accountable for it.

She has never read a world of Shakespeare, and she has been in Pre-AP and honors and AP/Dual Credit English for three years.

The district is afraid to assign books to read because they fear no one will read them and the kids will fail, which they are not allowed to do.

It is a *********unmitigated mess as far as English.

Now it is true that she has had some bad luck with her teachers. Her freshman teacher quit early on and she had substitutes for a year. I forget what happened last year. This year her teacher has gone through cancer and a divorce.

I hate to say this, but even when I was still teaching (and then subbing for a few years) 17 years ago, the young teachers did not know much and were incapable of teaching anything at length and that required close analysis: Emerson, Thoreau, Melville, Dickinson, Whitman, Faulkner.

I do think her AP history and AP stats classes were good.

That is so sad. She has missed out on so much enjoyment. There is an old saying about you are what you read as a child. So many life lessons in great literature. Also builds a tremendous vocabulary.
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A_Gang_Ag_06
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In reply to aggie93 • 4:29p, 5/17/26
AG
aggie93 said:
doubledog said:
Let's face it. Many teachers today can not teach the basics, reading, writing, science and mathematics. But they can tell you that Heather has two mommies.

There are still excellent teachers out there but there are some hard realities people don't want to face.

For instance the quality of student who goes into teaching has dropped consistently for the last 40 years. This is in part due to feminism. My Aunt for instance was brilliant. She graduated from High School at 14 and went to a West Texas State and graduated with honors to become a teacher and remained one for 40 years. Top student women used to go into teaching but now they go into other fields that pay better or just because they are encouraged to do so. Even from the '80s I knew girls at the top of our class who went into Education but you just don't see that now, for my boys recent classes I don't know of anyone in the Top 25% who wanted to go into education (outside of some that wanted to be college profs).

Education departments now have some of the lowest standards of admittance and lowest overall quality of graduates. There are exceptions but not a lot. It's become more about employment and benefits for the teachers and the best teachers generally want to go into Administration where the money is.

The best teachers my sons had were actually folks that worked in industry of some kind and decided to teach. They had some amazing folks like that but very few that were lifelong teachers, especially under the age of 45. I don't know how this gets fixed and that doesn't even account for all the other problems.

The other big thing is the evolution of homeschooling and online learning. Covid showed a LOT of parents the need to send your kid to sit in a classroom all day is not for everyone and it is easier than ever to learn in different ways. You also are seeing homeschool kids thriving at the University level.


I actually blame the federalization of student loans. When "free" money to go to college became readily available, women that would have gone into fields such as cosmetology started going to college and getting Ed degrees. This was due to them being among the easiest of all college degrees and universities taking anyone in to keep the money flowing. This also explains the phenomenon of the "crazy hairstylist" we all remember from our younger days morphing into the "crazy teacher."
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OldArmy71
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In reply to aggiehawg • 4:31p, 5/17/26
AG
It's maddening. She has a step cousin who just graduated from a fairly small school on the coast, and that kid has actually read some real literature, so I know that some schools have not given up.

My granddaughter has a brain and used to be a reader until the screens took over, and her school has failed to bridge the gap.

She loves me and listens to me most of the time, but she won't let me help her or even look at what she's writing, for instance. I know she's afraid I'll "grade" it.

Not very many kids, even honors and AP kids, naturally enjoy reading literature written for adults, but we used to make them read it anyway.

As I always said to my classes, if you can read Emerson, you can read anything.



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aggiehawg
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In reply to OldArmy71 • 4:33p, 5/17/26
AG
Quote:
As I always said to my classes, if you can read Emerson, you can read anything.

LOL. For me it was Chaucer. Felt as if I required a glossary.
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OldArmy71
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4:41p, 5/17/26
AG
I'm going to shut up here in a second, but I rant about this all the time.

She is taking a Dual Credit literature class next year, so maybe she will read a Shakespeare play.

But just off the top of my head, she has not read

Animal Farm
To Kill a Mockingbird
Huck Finn
Romeo and Juliet
Julius Caesar
Macbeth
Anything by Dickens, Hemingway, Steinbeck, Emerson, Thoreau, Melville, Dickinson

It just hurts my brain and soul to think about it for too long.

She is a deep and sensitive and intelligent kid who would have loved my class, for instance. Sigh.
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CrockerAg98
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5:07p, 5/17/26
AG
Dostoevsky.

That crap was just painful. But read it. I used the cliffs notes to help translate what the hell I read, but I read every page.
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Pacifico
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In reply to OldArmy71 • 5:11p, 5/17/26
AG
OldArmy71 said:
It's maddening. She has a step cousin who just graduated from a fairly small school on the coast, and that kid has actually read some real literature, so I know that some schools have not given up.

My granddaughter has a brain and used to be a reader until the screens took over, and her school has failed to bridge the gap.

She loves me and listens to me most of the time, but she won't let me help her or even look at what she's writing, for instance. I know she's afraid I'll "grade" it.

Not very many kids, even honors and AP kids, naturally enjoy reading literature written for adults, but we used to make them read it anyway.

As I always said to my classes, if you can read Emerson, you can read anything.




They don't have time to. They're too busy writing book reports about why George Washington had slaves and why Capitalism is a failed economic system.
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Athanasius
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5:14p, 5/17/26
AG
Homeschool your children and/or get them into a catholic or classical school.

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BigRobSA
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5:28p, 5/17/26
Dropping phonics as a primer
"new math"
teaching feelz over science
"smart" devices

the list is growing
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MelvinUdall
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6:01p, 5/17/26
Dropping my phonics and parents not being active in their kids educational development are a huge issue…parents have dropped out of facilitating the continuing education of their kids and left it up fully to the schools…parents have to reinforce what is being taught in schools.
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Over_ed
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In reply to reineraggie09 • 6:03p, 5/17/26
AG
reineraggie09 said:
Quote:
parents need to get their kids unhooked from their screens. Please.


We went full Anxious Generation way before the book. And we home school. Eldest just tested at 6th grade reading level at 7 years old. Schools waste money and time. The whole system needs a reboot.

I don't know you enough for you to be my hero, but you're on track to be their.

More parents need to make this decision/commitments.
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reineraggie09
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In reply to Over_ed • 6:04p, 5/17/26
AG
Over_ed said:
reineraggie09 said:
Quote:
parents need to get their kids unhooked from their screens. Please.


We went full Anxious Generation way before the book. And we home school. Eldest just tested at 6th grade reading level at 7 years old. Schools waste money and time. The whole system needs a reboot.

I don't know you enough for you to be my hero, but you're on track to be their.

More parents need to make this decision/commitments.



Very kind. My wife is the real hero. She was homeschooled and is leading the charge. My job is to teach math and pay the bills
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sshm
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6:24p, 5/17/26
AG
For transparency, I'm a high school history teacher at a title 1 6A school in Texas.

It's bad. The last two years in particular it has been very obvious that the numbers about the current crop of kids being the first to regress compared to their predecessors is VERY true. Pretty much everyone KNOWS what is causing a lot of the problems, but it is going to be hard to get the bipartisan support necessary to fix the issues. The fact that banning phones in the classroom was such a bipartisan effort though does give me some hope, but I don't have enough faith in politicians to take that as a given.

Republicans are going to have to have to not be openly hostile towards education to get anything done. As much as many hyper conservatives will want to deny it, the bulk of the liberal teachers still agree with you on what 90% of the problems are. I have heard my heavy left-leaning co-workers complain about a lot of the same stuff -- screens, parental apathy, social promotion/low expectations, and poor education research being pushed in schools (this is why phonics went away in some places). The blue haired psycho trope does exist, but it's a lot less common than people think it is. What we can't have is a rehash of democrats vs cops. Defund the police didn't work and yet Republicans think running that playbook with education will solve all of our problems.

Meanwhile democrats are going to have to live in reality and accept certain negative outcomes. Classroom expectations and rigor have to be brought back. To fix everything, kids are going to have to be allowed to fail. That WILL include large and disproportionate numbers of poor kids, minorities, and special education kids and that's going to make a lot of democrats p***y out instead of doing what is necessary to bring education back in line with where it needs to be. If there aren't leaders on the left with some balls, silhouette and gauche are going to be the least of our problems.
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Over_ed
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In reply to sshm • 6:58p, 5/17/26
AG
sshm said:
For transparency, I'm a high school history teacher at a title 1 6A school in Texas.

It's bad. The last two years in particular it has been very obvious that the numbers about the current crop of kids being the first to regress compared to their predecessors is VERY obvious. Pretty much everyone KNOWS what is causing a lot of the problems.... If there aren't leaders on the left with some balls, silhouette and gauche are going to be the least of our problems.

Greatly appreciate your thoughts. IMO, the problem is as much or more on parents as teachers. It was terrible 40 years ago when I taught HS. It has to be so much worse now.

I hope your right about turning things around, but it seems a lot of parents more interested in doom scrolling along with their kids than making things right.

Have a great summer, and charge up for the fall. Most sincere thanks for your hard work.

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sshm
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In reply to sshm • 7:18p, 5/17/26
AG
Meant to edit and somehow quoted myself. I'm big smart.
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BadMoonRisin
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7:57p, 5/17/26
AG
branch covidians need to own up to what they did to our children, and the rtardeness of what they did to them, but they never will.

I had strict screen-time rules with all of my kids, and then they closed all of the schools for a cold virus, for months. my son was forced to start kindergarten on a bull**** chromebook via zoom calls, and that went about as well as you would expect.

my 2 year old, who had her daycare closed, had to do something while my wife and myself worked from home for half a ****ing year.

then, when it schools were "opened" they were forced to wear t-shirts materials over their faces and conditioned to see their teachers as a virus vector instead of educators who cared about their well-being.

seriously, **** anyone who believed in the covid non-sense, and there are a lot of them on this website. they perpeptuated a tremendous amount of harm on children that they just kind of wave away as 'oh well, we didnt really know, so we had to be careful'. no. we did know, and you suck and are terrible people.

you fell for a scam for years from a rat-faced **** head who should be hanging from the gallows and subjected our kids to needless nonsense to enable your delusions.

the hospitals that you told us would be overflowing were completely empty and the 'hero' nurses were coordinating tik tok dances to convince us that this was real, and none of you had **** to say. none of it was real, at all, in the first place. my grandma, bless her heart, actually died of covid (among other complications -- she was 84) and the amount of bull**** that i had to put up with to lay her to rest in central missouri was absolutely insane, but that is the one zoom meeting that i declined because i wanted to be there in person because she helped raise me. so I got on a plane, which lead to more insanity.

i apologize, i have a lot of feelings in this regard.
i'm sorry i dont laugh at the right times.
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Slwdsm
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8:01p, 5/17/26
Saw a video talking about a study done that shows a massive decline since they instituted the chrome books.... pretty much every state that uses them turned to crap as they put them in. I believe ME was one of the first for the study... it sounded like very damning evidence.

Not sure if its true, curious if others have seen other studies/talk of this or a rebuttal?

High-schoolers inability to read and write basic simple words is very very scary. Recently saw a roughly 16yo kid trying to order a cheeseburger off the menu... struggled with the word "awesome"
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pfo
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8:10p, 5/17/26
AG
All the above plus add in American children's classes are being flooded with illegals that can't even speak English. This is horrible on two fronts. They hold American children back because the teacher has to take time to carry the illegals along and the illegals further bring down test scores.
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BadMoonRisin
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In reply to sshm • 8:16p, 5/17/26
AG
sshm said:
For transparency, I'm a high school history teacher at a title 1 6A school in Texas.

It's bad. The last two years in particular it has been very obvious that the numbers about the current crop of kids being the first to regress compared to their predecessors is VERY true. Pretty much everyone KNOWS what is causing a lot of the problems, but it is going to be hard to get the bipartisan support necessary to fix the issues. The fact that banning phones in the classroom was such a bipartisan effort though does give me some hope, but I don't have enough faith in politicians to take that as a given.

Republicans are going to have to have to not be openly hostile towards education to get anything done. As much as many hyper conservatives will want to deny it, the bulk of the liberal teachers still agree with you on what 90% of the problems are. I have heard my heavy left-leaning co-workers complain about a lot of the same stuff -- screens, parental apathy, social promotion/low expectations, and poor education research being pushed in schools (this is why phonics went away in some places). The blue haired psycho trope does exist, but it's a lot less common than people think it is. What we can't have is a rehash of democrats vs cops. Defund the police didn't work and yet Republicans think running that playbook with education will solve all of our problems.

Meanwhile democrats are going to have to live in reality and accept certain negative outcomes. Classroom expectations and rigor have to be brought back. To fix everything, kids are going to have to be allowed to fail. That WILL include large and disproportionate numbers of poor kids, minorities, and special education kids and that's going to make a lot of democrats p***y out instead of doing what is necessary to bring education back in line with where it needs to be. If there aren't leaders on the left with some balls, silhouette and gauche are going to be the least of our problems.

my wife works in education and we talk about this all of the time. this is the golden quote.

there is no way that American Exceptionalism comes back unless we do this. you have to be able to measure a quality student who deserves more resources and someone who doesn't by measuring them appropriately, and we have somehow strayed from that path by telling everyone that they're superlative. i mean, just look at what the Ivys are matriculating now. not to mention most other institutions of higher ed. they're soft and basically rtarded. they have poor social skills, they have difficulty performing syncronous conversations, they are weak-willed and have no confidence in themselves.

the 'participation trophy' stuff is overdone and tired, but there is some truth to it. we have to evaluate where resources should go based on outcomes, and if the outcomes say everyone is amazing, any resource mobilization that we attempt is just throwing good money after bad, and is a total waste.
i'm sorry i dont laugh at the right times.
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zooguy96
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8:35p, 5/17/26
AG
Covid killed public education. Students lost 1-2 years - never got it back. Plus, too many schools not using books and using computers for everything.
I know a lot about a little, and a little about a lot.
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Bull Meachem
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8:37p, 5/17/26
In Texas, schools are incentivized to not fail students by the state of Texas. So accountability for not doing your work or showing up isn't allowed. That's on the state government. Not the teachers. Not the universities. The state government.

And parents have gone soft. Struggle makes them uncomfortable and why should my kid do homework when they've been with you all day. This is family time. Sure but then don't complain when we don't read all the books that we read 30 years ago. That can't happen in class.

Public education still works for those that take advantage of it. Sign up for the AP or dual credit classes. If a kid can't cut it, they're booted from the class. I wish we did that with all classes but we don't because parents would throw a **** fit.

And stop paying teachers based on years of service. Let the effective teachers make more and the less effective get fired.
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zooguy96
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In reply to Bull Meachem • 8:42p, 5/17/26
AG
Bull Meachem said:
And stop paying teachers based on years of service. Let the effective teachers make more and the less effective get fired.


This sounds great in theory. Reality is that schools already have a shortage of teachers, and it's not getting any better. I have a friend in east Texas - half of their teachers are not even certified, and only have barely 60 hours of college.

I quit teaching 2 years ago due to ineffective and unsupportive admin (no discipline) and horrible parents. I was an highly effective teacher (Level 4-5 teacher every year based on state test scores) - and you're replacing teachers like me with inexperienced, and many times uncertified teachers.

I'll never go back.
I know a lot about a little, and a little about a lot.
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