I posted about Fetterman talking about this a while back, now Ohio lawmakers are looking at this at the state level.

The Ohio state law would require all retailers to take cash for up to $500. No added surcharge for customers using cash. At least one "checkout line" that takes cash (either manned or automated).

Yeah, it is a "burden" on retailers. But, we all have burdens forced on us by the government, don't we? Considering:

• the privacy implications of requiring people to use electronic payment methods,
• the fact the the poor are much less likely to have credit cards,
• the increasingly awkward habit of governments de-banking people who oppose them (Republicans in US and thousands of truckers in Canada, all without a court order)
• the elimination of the ability to take cash when hackers bring down the payment processors (which they will)
• etc.

I am in favor of this.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/new-cash-law-could-force-walmart-costco-take-your-money-old-fashioned-way

the bill:
https://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/api/v2/general_assembly_136/legislation/hb554/00_IN/pdf/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Hate this. Shop somewhere else if you don't like it

I agree with this completely.

For years I paid in cash in my effort to teach how to make change to the unsuspecting cashiers.

Now I rely on plastic because checkout became painful and time consuming.

So long as it is official US currency, I don't see any reason that any retailer should be allowed to refuse it.

Lots of sporting events refuse cash. It's a speed and somewhat of a food safety issue.

HTownAg98 said:

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Lots of sporting events refuse cash. It's a speed and somewhat of a food safety issue.

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yes I know.
But I don't agree with permanent retailer being allowed to refuse it. I can somewhat understand the temporary venues need to do this.

Nordstrom was happy to take my mom's cash the other day. It helped that I am friends with the personal shopper, but she still needed a manager to come double count it.

My mom is 80 and her credit card only has a 2k limit so she keeps getting hung up trying to buy appliances and stuff. She had a hassle to try and explain to the cc company that she should have a higher limit and gave up.

When I went back to Austin a few years ago and half the restaurants on S Lamar didn't take cash it was off-putting. I'd prefer cash-only. On principle I don't like being tracked.

Emotional Support Cobra said:

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Nordstrom was happy to take my mom's cash the other day. It helped that I am friends with the personal shopper, but she still needed a manager to come double count it.

My mom is 80 and her credit card only has a 2k limit so she keeps getting hung up trying to buy appliances and stuff. She had a hassle to try and explain to the cc company that she should have a higher limit and gave up.

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Is she just refusing to use crypto?

Lots to unpack here. First let me say that the U.S. Dollar is the currency, not the dollar bill. Those aren't the same thing. Generally speaking as long as there's more than one option I'd prefer the market sort this out versus government adding another layer to the regulatory burden.

I would like to address your bullet points.

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-the privacy implications of requiring people to use electronic payment methods,

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I get this entirely. My preference would be that we eliminate government control over the banking system. It's none of their business that I spent $45 at Burdett a few weeks ago. The Constitution doesn't guarantee me the right to hide from government intrusion, it protects me from it. Let's get back to here. This is an infinitely bigger issue than just being able to pay with cash.

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the fact the the poor are much less likely to have credit cards,

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This is an emotional pull that's really not valid. Pretty much every payroll platform out there can send net pay to a reloadable debit card and those shop just like a credit card. That aside this isn't about catering to the poor, it's about a business's right to do business with whoever it wants to do business with. A retailer going card only is choosing to shun cash buyers. Those buyers should take their business elsewhere. If those that still take cash start to grow the ones that don't can make new decisions in the future based on that outcome. No government needed.

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the increasingly awkward habit of governments de-banking people who oppose them (Republicans in US and thousands of truckers in Canada, all without a court order)

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I wasn't aware the U.S. government was behind any of the debanking we've seen in recent years. I knew banks were choosing not to do business with businesses in certain industries (primarily in not processing card transactions ironically) and I knew there have been stories of banks closing accounts for people and businesses on the wrong political persuasion, I just wasn't aware government was behind any of it. Can you point us to something showing government's role in those decisions? Canada doesn't count.

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the elimination of the ability to take cash when hackers bring down the payment processors (which they will)
etc.

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If the electronic payment system goes down for longer than a day or two we've got a much bigger problem than cash or credit. To me this isn't a valid argument just because this is a societal collapse scenario if it isn't fixed in short order. If the payment systems go down and they're expected to return quickly we'll see most businesses just close until it's restored. If they don't return things will fall apart rapidly.

I recall stopping at a truck stop back in the later 1980's for Diesel.
I owned a Diesel powered Volvo at the time.
This truck stop gave a 10% discount if truckers paid in cash

A quick Chat GPT conversation suggests this is an issue that's populist in nature. Right now it appears that it's only so-called blue states and cities that require cash to be accepted at all businesses and those laws sometimes go back to the 70's. However, we're seeing that position gain traction in red states as government intrusion in our lives grows. I guess that serves to reinforce the idea that populism isn't a political ideology at all. Those same blue states would probably prefer to have back those decisions if they thought about them in a privacy light. We all know Democrats have never met a government intrusion they couldn't justify.

Far and away this is the biggest step of big brother due to it eventually leading to reliance of participation to remain functional in a society. Should be law to accept cash.

If you want to do business, then you must accept legal tender. Straight forward and logical policy.

Moon Shadow said:

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I recall stopping at a truck stop back in the later 1980's for Diesel.
I owned a Diesel powered Volvo at the time.
This truck stop gave a 10% discount if truckers paid in cash

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Wow. Giving a 10% discount to save what back then was probably 2.5% on the processing fee. That's just bad math. When Texas started allowing menu pricing for cash or credit I found myself doing the math of what that dime difference was in relation to the credit price. Taking cards costs them about 3% so giving me a $.10 discount on $3 makes sense. As the price goes down from $3 it makes less sense with every penny the price falls. At $2.50 which is about where the price is currently they're giving me a4% discount to save 3% on their merchant fees. In a business with low margins already that adds up quick. Notice the best gas station in America doesn't even let you pay with cash. As far as I can tell at Buc EE's it's pay at the pump or don't buy gas there.

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We all know Democrats have never met a government intrusion they couldn't justify.

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Republicans too these days! So sad to see!

Who?mikejones! said:

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If you want to do business, then you must accept legal tender. Straight forward and logical policy.

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Show me a business that doesn't accept payment in US dollars. Not dollar bills. They aren't the same thing.

Im Gipper said:

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We all know Democrats have never met a government intrusion they couldn't justify.

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Republicans too these days! So sad to see!

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for sure. Republicans love big government as long as it's controlling the right things.

Texas velvet maestro said:

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. On principle I don't like being tracked.

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Don't carry a smart phone?

Im Gipper said:

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Texas velvet maestro said:

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. On principle I don't like being tracked.

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Don't carry a smart phone?

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I'm usually in Faraday pants. but I was talking more about purchases.

Yes. I read that the first time you posted it. That's why I said tender, which coins and cash are considered by law.

We're not going to agree on this, just like the last time this thread popped up. I think its reasonable that to do business in a country, then they should be required to accept payments of any legal tender, whether that be in cash form, check, coins, or electronic transfer.

Hth.

Occasionally, like the days after a wide scale power outage from a hurricane or storm, the card machines are not working but certain stores are open on a limited basis.
Guess what? Things aren't free but they will take your cash.

I always have cash and prefer my cc not to be taken out of view.

Restaurant in Houston refused cash after dinner a few months ago. I was shocked. Really wish I would have told them that's all I had. Take it or don't. Imo they should have large signage stating no cash at the entrance.
And no cash should Never be allowed.
ETA. Wife's cc got canceled earlier this year due to fraud activity. Her debit card she rarely uses had expired and the new one was home unopened while she was out of state. Lucky that I insist on her keeping some cash in her purse, which she rarely uses.

Who?mikejones! said:

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Yes. I read that the first time you posted it. That's why I said tender, which coins and cash are considered by law.

We're not going to agree on this, just like the last time this thread popped up. I think its reasonable that to do business in a country, then they should be required to accept payments of any legal tender, whether that be in cash form, check, coins, or electronic transfer.

Hth.

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Based on my Chat GPT conversation here's the nuance in cash as a form of payment.

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Legal tender status means cash must be accepted for debts already incurred (e.g., settling a bill), but not for upfront transactions.

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That reads like an up front transaction which is what retail is isn't considered a debt. That's an interesting perspective I hadn't really considered.

Really this come down to Constitutional rights. You are prioritizing your 4th Amendment right to privacy whereas I'm prioritizing the business's 1st Amendment right to freedom of association and freedom of speech. From that perspective I don't think either position is wrong. That's probably as close as either of us will come to agreeing with the other. lol

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4th Amendment right to privacy

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It would take a wise Latina or whatsawoman? to stretch 4th amendment to protect a right to pay cash.

Don't like the idea of government forcing this. I'd prefer that retailers do it based on the needs of their customers. If they're not satisfying their customer's needs, then the customer just goes somewhere else.

So after I had dinner, is that a debt already incurred or an upfront transaction? If this happens again they Will take my cash or get an iou…. As a matter of principle.

Is it not also a public safety issue to accept cash? Can't steal money if it's electronic.

Business I was in stopped accepting cash, coins, and check as FOP about 8-10 years ago. The POS security issues and cost to transport the money outweighed the actual percentage of revenue we got from these FOPs. IOW, it was a small enough percentage of our revenue that we could justify it. I'm not saying I support it, but that's why we stopped accepting it. Most people paid us on account and were invoiced, or they paid with CC.

Related topic (not to hijack but seems relevant), there was a ruling last week that merchants now have the freedom to deny individually branded CCs as they see fit. So, they no longer have to accept ALL Visa branded cards if they accept Visa. They can deny my Visa Sapphire Reserve card yet accept someone else's Visa Bank of America card. The POS surcharge fees are different depending on the class of credit card so merchants will now have the freedom to deny the premium class of cards due to higher surcharge fees, if they want to.

This will become a cost benefit analysis for those merchants who are sophisticated enough to do it accurately. If little of their revenue is paid on a premium card, they will likely just deny the card and make you use a different one. In reality, this will probably only happen in smaller communities but interesting nonetheless.

TheMasterplan said:

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Is it not also a public safety issue to accept cash? Can't steal money if it's electronic.

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Tell that to someone whose cc or debit number was stolen by a waiter…. The hassle of changing cc numbers after a fraud event is Huge and why I prefer cash in certain settings.

Yes, the law states that coins and cash are legal tender but doesnt limit contracts or business' to only that.

There are some states that do, iirc.

Anyway, doesnt change my opinion

Valid point.

Less violet way of stealing.

My support of retailers having to take cash is that it's another preventative layer against USCBDC becoming the only legal tender of the land. That needs to be avoided at all costs so I'm looking at this from a more long-term perspective of preventing a government that only ever seems to get more tyrannical through incrementalism.

It's certainly not as efficient as CC, but if you have cash only lanes then it gets them out of the way at least.

jt16 said:

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Hate this. Shop somewhere else if you don't like it

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The problem is, it's legal tender of the US. I don't see how it's legal to not take it

Logos Stick said:

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jt16 said:

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Hate this. Shop somewhere else if you don't like it

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The problem is, it's legal tender of the US. I don't see how it's legal to not take it

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Because no law requires business to take the "legal tender" for purchases.

jt16 said:

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Hate this. Shop somewhere else if you don't like it

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Love this. And, I do.

You (vendor) doesn't take cash? **** off.

They can take their digital currency and shove it. Quit tracking us, prix.