Spirit of the law vs letter of the law - Immigration

3,170 Views | 42 Replies | Last: 4 mo ago by Ellis Wyatt
Nonregdrummer09
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I'm sure it may have been discussed on here at some point, but I'm curious as to the board's thoughts on Aggie PhD's student Tae Hung "Will" Kim.

Will is a lawful permanent resident and has lived in the US lawfully since he was 5. He's a PhD student at A&M and had received some notoriety for his work on a Lyme Disease vaccine.

In July, he was detained by CBP at the San Francisco airport upon returning from South Korea for his brother's wedding.

The reason for the detention was he had a misdemeanor for possession of marijuana in 2011. He served out a sentence of community service. He has no other criminal convictions and has obviously since has a successful academic and research career.

Will is now 40 years old. To be clear, under the letter of the law CBP does have the discretion to detain him for this misdemeanor drug conviction, but I would argue that was not the intention of the law to lock up a person like Will. He is clearly one of the "best and brightest" that we enjoy here and we can feel pretty confident he is used to living in the US since he's been here 35 years.

Will is still in a detention center awaiting immigration proceedings.

I don't know Will but I don't think he should be deported. He seemingly did everything right other than 1 misdemeanor.

Anyone have any information on this case, or know Will personally?


Edit: Sorry, original post said he was a minor, he was 26.
Psycho Bunny
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I believe this was talked about a few months back. You would have to go back aways and look. I would look for the thread, I'm just to lazy. Sucks for him, blah blah blah. Shouldn't have broken the law blah blah blah. Merica
When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.
txyaloo
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Nonregdrummer09 said:

I'm sure it may have been discussed on here at some point, but I'm curious as to the board's thoughts on Aggie PhD's student Tae Hung "Will" Kim.

Will is a lawful permanent resident and has lived in the US lawfully since he was 5. He's a PhD student at A&M and had received some notoriety for his work on a Lyme Disease vaccine.

In July, he was detained by CBP at the San Francisco airport upon returning from South Korea for his brother's wedding.

The reason for the detention was he had a misdemeanor for possession of marijuana in 2011, when the was a minor. He served out a sentence of community service and his record was sealed. He has no other criminal convictions and has obviously since has a successful academic and research career.

Will is now 40 years old. To be clear, under the letter of the law CBP does have the discretion to detain him for this misdemeanor drug conviction when he was a minor, but I would argue that was not the intention of the law to lock up a person like Will. He is clearly one of the "best and brightest" that we enjoy here and we can feel pretty confident he is used to living in the US since he's been here 35 years.

Will is still in a detention center awaiting immigration proceedings.

I don't know Will but I don't think he should be deported. He seemingly did everything right other than 1 misdemeanor when he was a minor.

Anyone have any information on this case, or know Will personally?


If he's 40 now, how was he a minor in 2011 when he was arrested for marijuana possession? I'm not the best at maths, but that'd have made him 26-27.

Why has he been a student for 15+ years? When did he become a permanent legal resident? Why is he a guest in our country breaking laws?
Wildmen03
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I still think there's more to the story. I don't know what that is, or if there is anything there. But the fact that it went viral for about 48 hours then total silence makes me think something else is in play here.
BBRex
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I don't think you're going to find much sympathy here.

I also think it's a waste of time to track down adults who came here illegally as kids and who have lived a law-abiding life. But I guess it's somehow supposed to be a deterrent.
Im Gipper
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He should get a job in a hotel cleaning rooms. Then he can stay.

I'm Gipper
Ol_Ag_02
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He's had 22 years since he turned 18 to become a US citizen. He chose poorly.
Nonregdrummer09
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I'm not saying he didn't, and he served his time for it, and wasn't deported then. He continued to live in this country for 15 years. Again, technically CBP can do this I just don't know if it's the spirit of that law for cases like this.
Tom Fox
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He had the opportunity to address this by applying for citizenship.

CBP should have absolutely placed him into removal proceedings. Now, I would have released him to the street to await his court date.

In all likelihood he will get cancellation of removal and be allowed to stay. He should immediately apply for citizenship if he intends to make the US his permanent home.

Any other arrest and he will be fooked.
Capt. Augustus McCrae
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Does it typically take 35 years to gain one's citizenship? Or was that a small oversight on his part that he simply forgot to apply
Psycho Bunny
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Psycho Bunny said:

I believe this was talked about a few months back. You would have to go back aways and look. I would look for the thread, I'm just to lazy. Sucks for him, blah blah blah. Shouldn't have broken the law blah blah blah. Merica


Edit: felt being productive so here's the thread.
https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3551134/2
When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.
Tea Party
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The spirit of the law is to motivate foreign contributors to want to assimilate and become citizens. If this person was a great contributor to our country and had been here for 35 years, they clearly weren't that motivated to become a citizen.

It is unfortunate that they are caught up in the immigration enforcement wave we have to go through, but my level of care for this is pretty low when we have had essentially open borders for a while and clearly have a non-assimilation problem.
Learn about the Texas Nationalist Movement
https://tnm.me
IIIHorn
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He should have done his homework.
Nonregdrummer09
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Capt. Augustus McCrae said:

Does it typically take 35 years to gain one's citizenship? Or was that a small oversight on his part that he simply forgot to apply


I don't think it's all that uncommon for permanent residents to be slow about going through the citizenship process.
Nonregdrummer09
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Psycho Bunny said:

Psycho Bunny said:

I believe this was talked about a few months back. You would have to go back aways and look. I would look for the thread, I'm just to lazy. Sucks for him, blah blah blah. Shouldn't have broken the law blah blah blah. Merica


Edit: felt being productive so here's the thread.
https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3551134/2


Thanks.
Who?mikejones!
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22 years to get his citizenship?
Tom Fox
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Nonregdrummer09 said:

Capt. Augustus McCrae said:

Does it typically take 35 years to gain one's citizenship? Or was that a small oversight on his part that he simply forgot to apply


I don't think it's all that uncommon for permanent residents to be slow about going through the citizenship process.


That is a poor decision.
BusterAg
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Any ties with the CCP? Relatives, wives, girlfriends, hookers?

Might be relevant, and we wouldn't know.
jacketman03
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BusterAg said:

Any ties with the CCP? Relatives, wives, girlfriends, hookers?

Might be relevant, and we wouldn't know.

How do you come to the idea that a South Korean citizen has "relatives, wives, girlfriends, hoookers" tied to the Communist Party of China?
Ellis Wyatt
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BBRex said:

I don't think you're going to find much sympathy here.

I also think it's a waste of time to track down adults who came here illegally as kids and who have lived a law-abiding life. But I guess it's somehow supposed to be a deterrent.

They didn't track him down. He made it an issue by traveling outside America.
Ellis Wyatt
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jacketman03 said:

BusterAg said:

Any ties with the CCP? Relatives, wives, girlfriends, hookers?

Might be relevant, and we wouldn't know.

How do you come to the idea that a South Korean citizen has "relatives, wives, girlfriends, hoookers" tied to the Communist Party of China?

Joe Biden does. What's your point?
doubledog
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As I said back July

" The 35 years as a permanent resident would be a huge red flag at any immigration entry (for any country). If he has never left the U.S. then this would not be an issue. Re-entry without a U.S. passport and 35 year green card would be. There are options for him, but they are limited."

Let me add. How long has he been in graduate school? If over 5 years then that is also a huge red flag.
TAMU1990
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This is why people have no tolerance for this anymore
nai06
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Nonregdrummer09 said:

Capt. Augustus McCrae said:

Does it typically take 35 years to gain one's citizenship? Or was that a small oversight on his part that he simply forgot to apply


I don't think it's all that uncommon for permanent residents to be slow about going through the citizenship process.


That's what I have seen too.

My mom first came to the U.S. in 1975 and did not become a citizen until 2019. She was a permanent resident on a green card for the entire time
sushi94
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For South Koreans - its a little different - they have national health care so I can see why he would have been hesitant to give up his korean citizenship. I believe there has been some changes on having dual citizenship but i'm not sure.
Ol_Ag_02
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nai06 said:

Nonregdrummer09 said:

Capt. Augustus McCrae said:

Does it typically take 35 years to gain one's citizenship? Or was that a small oversight on his part that he simply forgot to apply


I don't think it's all that uncommon for permanent residents to be slow about going through the citizenship process.


That's what I have seen too.

My mom first came to the U.S. in 1975 and did not become a citizen until 2019. She was a permanent resident on a green card for the entire time


Well. There's a new sheriff in town.
samurai_science
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SK birth rate is one of the worst in the world, sending him home might help a bit.
SpreadsheetAg
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Nonregdrummer09 said:

I'm sure it may have been discussed on here at some point, but I'm curious as to the board's thoughts on Aggie PhD's student Tae Hung "Will" Kim.

Will is a lawful permanent resident and has lived in the US lawfully since he was 5. He's a PhD student at A&M and had received some notoriety for his work on a Lyme Disease vaccine.

In July, he was detained by CBP at the San Francisco airport upon returning from South Korea for his brother's wedding.

The reason for the detention was he had a misdemeanor for possession of marijuana in 2011. He served out a sentence of community service. He has no other criminal convictions and has obviously since has a successful academic and research career.

Will is now 40 years old. To be clear, under the letter of the law CBP does have the discretion to detain him for this misdemeanor drug conviction, but I would argue that was not the intention of the law to lock up a person like Will. He is clearly one of the "best and brightest" that we enjoy here and we can feel pretty confident he is used to living in the US since he's been here 35 years.

Will is still in a detention center awaiting immigration proceedings.

I don't know Will but I don't think he should be deported. He seemingly did everything right other than 1 misdemeanor.

Anyone have any information on this case, or know Will personally?


Edit: Sorry, original post said he was a minor, he was 26.

Follow the letter of the law on the arrest / deportation, but provide a path for him to come back quickly by following a process of legal atonement.

Will should not be blaming the government for enforcing our laws. The blame lies with his parents and himself for not seeking permanent legal status, citizenship, and not obeying the law (even for misdemeanor substance violation).

We have no obligation to treat him differently. He has no right to stay here. He's been on privileged status for what seems like 34-35 years. He's been an adult here in the USA for 22+ years.
Old Army Ghost
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So your friend will does drugs and breaks our laws. Sound like a bad person for america
Old Army has gone to hell.
Tony Franklins Other Shoe
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I know a number of people who tried hard to get their citizenship. If he didn't, thems the breaks. Of all the ones I know, they would agree with that sentiment. Why should he be special?

Person Not Capable of Pregnancy
Ragoo
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Nonregdrummer09 said:

Capt. Augustus McCrae said:

Does it typically take 35 years to gain one's citizenship? Or was that a small oversight on his part that he simply forgot to apply


I don't think it's all that uncommon for permanent residents to be slow about going through the citizenship process.
I don't know. I work with a Persian from Iran. He and his wife came over under the lottery system back in 2011. They applied and became US citizens the moment they were eligible. It was that important to them.
one safe place
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Stoners!
kb2001
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BBRex said:

I don't think you're going to find much sympathy here.

I also think it's a waste of time to track down adults who came here illegally as kids and who have lived a law-abiding life. But I guess it's somehow supposed to be a deterrent.

Agree with this, but that isn't relevant to this situation. He wasn't tracked down, he was found out as he entered the country, and found to have met the criteria for an immigration hearing under the law.

I don't think he should be removed, his situation sounds exactly like the positive side of immigration. Perhaps this story will encourage others who fit this to get citizenship if they are serious about making their life in the US.

I have a coworker who is from the Netherlands, he's lived in the US for 20+ years. He went through the citizenship process in 2016, it cost him $300 and took about a month. He is still a citizen of the Netherlands as well, since both countries recognize dual citizenship. It wasn't a case where he was unable to get it, it was a case where there was no real benefit for going through the paperwork hassle. Now, with immigration laws being enforced as written, the incentive is there, and people should take note.
Urban Ag
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nai06 said:

Nonregdrummer09 said:

Capt. Augustus McCrae said:

Does it typically take 35 years to gain one's citizenship? Or was that a small oversight on his part that he simply forgot to apply


I don't think it's all that uncommon for permanent residents to be slow about going through the citizenship process.


That's what I have seen too.

My mom first came to the U.S. in 1975 and did not become a citizen until 2019. She was a permanent resident on a green card for the entire time

Who cares?

I have been in 14 foreign countries this year. I enter every one of them fully knowing they can order me to leave for any reason or no reason at all. And I am good with that. It's their country.

Ellis Wyatt
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sushi94 said:

For South Koreans - its a little different - they have national health care so I can see why he would have been hesitant to give up his korean citizenship. I believe there has been some changes on having dual citizenship but i'm not sure.
i, for one, think he shouldn't give it up. South Korea is a great country. He should move there.
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