" . . . Capitalism doesn't fail when the rich get richer.

It fails when the poor stop believing they can join them.

That's the pivot we're living through right now. The "Millennial socialism" he mentions is the immune response of a generation whose time horizon was stolen. . . ."

⚡️This email is one of the most quietly revealing artifacts of the entire post-2008 era.

Peter Thiel isn’t predicting socialism here. He’s diagnosing the terminal logic of late capitalism: when ownership becomes inaccessible, belief in the system dissolves.

He’s mapping… https://t.co/nlfyeGwHOp

— SightBringer (@_The_Prophet__) November 5, 2025

The issue is one of expectations. Each successive generation has loved a better, safer, more comfortable life than the last, with access to cheaper and new technologies constantly.

Now that every new generation is bombarded with media and marketing that shows them what they don't have but what others supposedly do, and constantly create an artificial perception of standard of living to encourage consumption through envy, we all have a distorted view of how wealth is accumulated and how it is normal for the young to be relatively poor.

Yet, our homes, vehicles, goods of all kinds are often more targeted at the wealthier consumers. Starter homes now are utterly luxurious compared to 2-3 decades ago. Basic Vehicles are expensive and loaded with tech. People carry around a huge amount of technology that they didn't 2 decades ago. People constantly see what others supposedly have and then believe that they themselves are going without or are relatively poor.

The expectations are manipulated higher, so more people feel poorer even though they live better than past generations at the same stage in their lives on average

I think it is much too simplistic to throw this at the feet of housing and student loans. Less than half go (seriously) to college. More than 1 year.

I think it is a general malaise. Too much screen time, too few personal connections. Many don't have any physical intimacy. Lack of God/faith. Fewer young families, so lack of purpose. Poor schooling and parenting.

Attributing all this to dissatisfaction with capitalism ignores a lot.

MouthBQ98 said:

---

The issue is one of expectations. Each successive generation has loved a better, safer, more comfortable life than the last, with access to cheaper and new technologies constantly.

Now that every new generation is bombarded with media and marketing that shows them what they don't have but what others supposedly do, and constantly create an artificial perception of standard of living to encourage consumption through envy, we all have a distorted view of how wealth is accumulated and how it is normal for the young to be relatively poor.

Yet, our homes, vehicles, goods of all kinds are often more targeted at the wealthier consumers. Starter homes now are utterly luxurious compared to 2-3 decades ago. Basic Vehicles are expensive and loaded with tech. People carry around a huge amount of technology that they didn't 2 decades ago. People constantly see what others supposedly have and then believe that they themselves are going without or are relatively poor.

The expectations are manipulated higher, so more people feel poorer even though they live better than past generations at the same stage in their lives on average

---

Salaries Americans say they consider the minimum to be financially successful, per Axios: pic.twitter.com/EiqItxwXW9

— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) November 4, 2025

MouthBQ98 said:

---

The issue is one of expectations. Each successive generation has loved a better, safer, more comfortable life than the last, with access to cheaper and new technologies constantly.

Now that every new generation is bombarded with media and marketing that shows them what they don't have but what others supposedly do, and constantly create an artificial perception of standard of living to encourage consumption through envy, we all have a distorted view of how wealth is accumulated and how it is normal for the young to be relatively poor.

Yet, our homes, vehicles, goods of all kinds are often more targeted at the wealthier consumers. Starter homes now are utterly luxurious compared to 2-3 decades ago. Basic Vehicles are expensive and loaded with tech. People carry around a huge amount of technology that they didn't 2 decades ago. People constantly see what others supposedly have and then believe that they themselves are going without or are relatively poor.

The expectations are manipulated higher, so more people feel poorer even though they live better than past generations at the same stage in their lives on average

---

Well said

All being done to breakdown the system and to create division and more reliance on government. This gives the socialist elites more and more power.

Over_ed said:

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I think it is much too simplistic to throw this at the feet of housing and student loans. Less than half go (seriously) to college. More than 1 year.

I think it is a general malaise. Too much screen time, too few personal connections. Many don't have any physical intimacy. Lack of God/faith. Fewer young families, so lack of purpose. Poor schooling and parenting.

Attributing all this to dissatisfaction with capitalism ignores a lot.

---

Amen. And will add , politicians spreading jealousy amongst people to get elected. Coveting what your neighbor has, mixed with hatred for him, and not accepting your shortcomings has hardened hearts of our young.

lol… so the average income puts you into the top what 3%?

..."We've been so busy keeping up with the Jones. Four car garage and we're still adding on..."

The top 1% has typically been around the low 400s

The problem is not capitalism. The problem is our modern banking and finance system.

People say the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, and that has never felt more true than it does right now. Even with higher interest rates the last couple of years, money is still cheap if you already have money.

In the past, if you had a good business idea, you grew at the speed of your actual success. You earned profit, you reinvested it, and your business expanded over time. Your growth was tied to performance and patience.

Today that time factor is basically gone. If you look promising enough, you can just go borrow huge amounts of money and scale instantly. And the more successful you look, the more banks line up to give you even bigger loans at even better terms.

Thats how someone can go from selling books in a garage to becoming a multibillionaire in a short amount of time. The system rewards access to credit far more than actual business fundamentals.

Meanwhile inflation and rising costs hit people living paycheck to paycheck much harder than people who already have savings, assets, or investment accounts. The system is not lifting everyone. It is multiplying wealth for those who already have it.

Capitalism is not really the issue. The financial system we built on top of it is what is driving the gap wider and faster than ever before.

Social media has brought out the worst. Pure jealousy and what they don't have and covet is in their face nonstop. Capitalism isn't failing. People are. Expectations have become ridiculous.

Well said. It's somewhat of a tired argument…..in general, the rich always get richer. the vast majority have real estate portfolios generating nice growth or of course the insane stock market run we've been on since 2021.

We have a zombie economy, we are becoming japan. Our government has buried us in so much debt, it is a drag on growth. The only real growth now is ai related. The rest of the economy is just treading water or spiraling down.

dustin999 said:

---

The problem is not capitalism. The problem is our modern banking and finance system.

People say the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, and that has never felt more true than it does right now. Even with higher interest rates the last couple of years, money is still cheap if you already have money.

In the past, if you had a good business idea, you grew at the speed of your actual success. You earned profit, you reinvested it, and your business expanded over time. Your growth was tied to performance and patience.

Today that time factor is basically gone. If you look promising enough, you can just go borrow huge amounts of money and scale instantly. And the more successful you look, the more banks line up to give you even bigger loans at even better terms.

Thats how someone can go from selling books in a garage to becoming a multibillionaire in a short amount of time. The system rewards access to credit far more than actual business fundamentals.

Meanwhile inflation and rising costs hit people living paycheck to paycheck much harder than people who already have savings, assets, or investment accounts. The system is not lifting everyone. It is multiplying wealth for those who already have it.

Capitalism is not really the issue. The financial system we built on top of it is what is driving the gap wider and faster than ever before.

---

The broken money has a lot to do with it. Income inequality and globalism have decimated the middle class and below. Fix the money, fix the world.

www.wtfhappenedin1971.com

dustin999 said:

---

The problem is not capitalism. The problem is our modern banking and finance system.

People say the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, and that has never felt more true than it does right now. Even with higher interest rates the last couple of years, money is still cheap if you already have money.

In the past, if you had a good business idea, you grew at the speed of your actual success. You earned profit, you reinvested it, and your business expanded over time. Your growth was tied to performance and patience.

Today that time factor is basically gone. If you look promising enough, you can just go borrow huge amounts of money and scale instantly. And the more successful you look, the more banks line up to give you even bigger loans at even better terms.

Thats how someone can go from selling books in a garage to becoming a multibillionaire in a short amount of time. The system rewards access to credit far more than actual business fundamentals.

Meanwhile inflation and rising costs hit people living paycheck to paycheck much harder than people who already have savings, assets, or investment accounts. The system is not lifting everyone. It is multiplying wealth for those who already have it.

Capitalism is not really the issue. The financial system we built on top of it is what is driving the gap wider and faster than ever before.

---

This is an outstanding post.

Adding on to some great posts in this thread:

The gigantic sums of money the gov't is throwing out each year through debt mostly falls into the hands of the rich, who then have immediately turned around and put it into equities. Thus, we have a booming equity market, but little, to no real growth at the mom and pop level.

This exacerbates the rich/poor divide as the money printing crushes the every day American.

The money printing started at the end of GWB's term and accelerated under every President since is hastening our country's demise in every way, but the power hungry politicians, which are so desperate to stay in power, continue to throw money at everyone to buy their vote, yet, in reality, that money rarely makes it to the poor souls who vote.

That was a very on nose and insightful message from Theil. All the more so since it is pre-2020 disaster and hijack which would put all the negative forces he described already present on Steroidsx10.

Some of the above is getting a bit astray with the major exception of indicting the banking and finance system, the "broken money" setup.

Go back to this, and just try to focus on it:

Quote:

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" . . . Capitalism doesn't fail when the rich get richer.

It fails when the poor and working class stop believing they can join them."

---

I would add the bold because that is closer to where it is now. And that's a little new.

You first to have to understand what is the general belief, and then can start looking at causes or if it is justified or not. Its largely justified as things stand now, as it is the net effect of the policies that have been running things in somewhat unaccountable way all century and before. I think all the boomer blaming comes from the more simple realization that most of the bad political decisions were made by the current (not the 2024 elected, the current to date) political-and-press class. And most of them are Boomers or even Silents.

A phrase keep seeing that appears genuinely accurate is the prior generation "pulled up the ladder behind them" and transferred their debts to those below - "the kick the can to the future.". If you can picture GenX as scrambling where some grab the ladder successfully, you catch the transition. But many of those that then followed were left out by an increasing maze of fiscal barriers and even regulations. Our parents didn't have to contend with a fraction of the hoops of today. Yes, they had to do hard work, but once doing the hard work, very few of other just arbitrary obstacles were in their path to make actualization of that work so difficult.

Health care is by far and away the best example of this. There are few even in GenX let along after that think they will have the quality of care and accessibility of doctors and rapid attention the present retiring have.

Another "cost" imposed by the political and press class is the open enabling of regressive behavior and crime. These create subtle obstacles to growth of youth that interfere with the process of finding both affordable and also tenable (overlooked too often) home locations. This too was not a factor for those that pulled up the ladder. Part of the excess cost of real-estate is whether the area is safe or has reasonably sane schools. These are products of the governing class and the press that runs interference for them.

Then you invoke all the other absolutely true statements -- the Expectations are way out of line because of social media. College and school especially fuels this, and they are unready for the hard downshift and drop that comes after graduating (in our days the dorm did not exceed the living standards and comfort of our first no matter how small apartment. But today, they DO, and that distorts reality)

Add to that the Left's war on viable traditional households and the economic environment that is increasingly imposing two incomes to do what one did before just to get that prior level, you have this.

So you come back to this:

Quote:

---

" . . . Capitalism doesn't fail when the rich get richer.

It fails when the poor stop believing they can join them.

---

That is why the communism of the Left and the stirrings of Caesarism or autocracy on the right are gaining such traction. They are the only ones that pretend to even deliver interest in all the above, until MAGA came along. Its not a wonder that took off as it has, no matter how many of the utterly comfortable and insulated political and press class hate it.

A lot of great posts here that I will attempt to not replicate. The only thing I will add is that student debt, specifically, being an issue is due to three things of which all of these are intertwined and feed into one another:

(1) Federalizing over 90% of it as part of Obamacare created a system with zero accountability (until it crashed) and a complete separation of demand from supply.

(2) Successful infiltration and conquering of academia by Marxists enabled intellectually defunct ideas into the classroom and made this country less intelligent and destroyed our ability to critically think.

(3) The irony that we have a lot of the worthless majors that we have is also partly due to being a victim of our own capitalist success. A successful superpower country that has few internal and external worries has the luxury of wasting resources on flights of fancy like gender studies and other worthless endeavors that provide no economic value to the system.

Aggie95 said:

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Well said. It's somewhat of a tired argument…..in general, the rich always get richer. the vast majority have real estate portfolios generating nice growth or of course the insane stock market run we've been on since 2021.

---

I would argue that the gap between rich and poor would not be as great as it has become but for the money printer. To the extent you have appreciating assets, the less this has affected you. If you are in the bottom 50%, your wages have not kept up with inflated prices. These people are struggling. The siren song of socialism has a very strong appeal even though it has never worked.

Its Texas Aggies, dammit said:

---

Aggie95 said:

---

Well said. It's somewhat of a tired argument…..in general, the rich always get richer. the vast majority have real estate portfolios generating nice growth or of course the insane stock market run we've been on since 2021.

---

I would argue that the gap between rich and poor would not be as great as it has become but for the money printer. To the extent you have appreciating assets, the less this has affected you. If you are in the bottom 50%, your wages have not kept up with inflated prices. These people are struggling. The siren song of socialism has a very strong appeal even though it has never worked.

---

and I would add in real warning,

And so likewise the siren call of fascism, because it has worked. Just not for all. People really need to understand the need to start getting accountability out of the policy setting class or these two strands combined are going to fully manifest.

It also has to do with what is valued/prioritized. I've heard it said that the Millennial/Gen Z generations value experiences over saving/money. I've seen young people I work with that make far less than me go on 3-4 expensive vacations per year. doing that instead of saving for a home then complaining about the affordability of home doesn't seem like the blame lies with capitalism.

4stringAg said:

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It also has to do with what is valued/prioritized. I've heard it said that the Millennial/Gen Z generations value experiences over saving/money. I've seen young people I work with that make far less than me go on 3-4 expensive vacations per year. doing that instead of saving for a home then complaining about the affordability of home doesn't seem like the blame lies with capitalism.

---

Yep. I have former employees who are now well into their late 30s whose goal in life is to travel to every country or as many countries as they can. The tradeoff of that is that they generally rent with roommates and are still single. They no doubt have some incredible travel experiences but at some point you have to balance that, assuming you want to own a home and settle down.

I simply think the NYC Election illustrates the problem with unfettered immigration.

If only US Born voters were counted, Cuomo wins going away. Mamdani recieved nearly ALL the foreign born voters support. He knows this:

Quote:

---

Thank you to those so often forgotten by the politics of our city who made this movement their own.
I speak of Yemeni bodega owners and Mexican abuelas, Senegalese taxi drivers and Uzbek nurses, Trinidadian line cooks and Ethiopian aunties yes, aunties.

---

That is a problem. And it's repeated in Minnesota, California, etc, etc.

It's not income, or expectations. It's importing voters who dont understand what's made this country great (and different from where they came from).

YouBet said:

---

4stringAg said:

---

It also has to do with what is valued/prioritized. I've heard it said that the Millennial/Gen Z generations value experiences over saving/money. I've seen young people I work with that make far less than me go on 3-4 expensive vacations per year. doing that instead of saving for a home then complaining about the affordability of home doesn't seem like the blame lies with capitalism.

---

Yep. I have former employees who are now well into their late 30s whose goal in life is to travel to every country or as many countries as they can. The tradeoff of that is that they generally rent with roommates and are still single. They no doubt have some incredible travel experiences but at some point you have to balance that, assuming you want to own a home and settle down.

---

Its a tricky call for them. I think some have this sense of won't be able to do it later in life (I think they are objectively correct if so) because those places will not be the same. Many gone or untenable. And later life burdened by too many expenses, especially medical. Heard one of them the other day commenting on the relentless barrage of stratospheric medical things the folks having to do, and wondering how they could afford it.

I am not sure they are wrong. I think we are leaving an unusual time of support and entering more lean ones.

titan said:

---

YouBet said:

---

4stringAg said:

---

It also has to do with what is valued/prioritized. I've heard it said that the Millennial/Gen Z generations value experiences over saving/money. I've seen young people I work with that make far less than me go on 3-4 expensive vacations per year. doing that instead of saving for a home then complaining about the affordability of home doesn't seem like the blame lies with capitalism.

---

Yep. I have former employees who are now well into their late 30s whose goal in life is to travel to every country or as many countries as they can. The tradeoff of that is that they generally rent with roommates and are still single. They no doubt have some incredible travel experiences but at some point you have to balance that, assuming you want to own a home and settle down.

---

Its a tricky call for them. I think some have this sense of won't be able to do it later in life (I think they are objectively correct if so) because those places will not be the same. Many gone or untenable. And later life burdened by too many expenses, especially medical. Heard one of them the other day commenting on the relentless barrage of stratospheric medical things the folks having to do, and wondering how they could afford it.

I am not sure they are wrong. I think we are leaving an unusual time of support and entering more lean ones.

---

Yeah, I tend to agree; it's just where do you draw the line and will they regret at all trying to settle down much later in life. Maybe they won't. I won't deny there is a bit of FOMO on my part. We have not traveled internationally nearly to the level I would have liked. And, now, some of the countries I historically would have gone to have been removed from the list. I'm simply not going to risk it in this age of de-globalization, upheaval, and conflict.

More accurately, I've shifted away from the traditional western powers and would rather go to places like Japan (bucket list), central and Eastern Europe, and some places in South America. Stability always cautions me on that last one.

AgGrad99 said:

---

I simply think the NYC Election illustrates the problem with unfettered immigration.

If only US Born voters were counted, Cuomo wins going away. Mamdani recieved nearly ALL the foreign born voters support.

That is a problem. And it's repeated in Minnesota, California, etc, etc.

It's not income, or expectations. It's importing voters who dont understand what's made this country great (and different from where they came from).

---

You also have to factor "education" levels. People with bachelors and graduate degrees voted for Mamdani. People that don't have that level of education did not vote for Mamdani.

Thus, being "educated" is now a 180 like most everything else with the left - up is down and down is up. This what being "educated" by Marxists gets you.

titan said:

---

Another "cost" imposed by the political and press class is the open enabling of regressive behavior and crime. These create subtle obstacles to growth of youth that interfere with the process of finding both affordable and also tenable (overlooked too often) home locations. This too was not a factor for those that pulled up the ladder. Part of the excess cost of real-estate is whether the area is safe or has reasonably sane schools. These are products of the governing class and the press that runs interference for them.

---

Excellent point about the housing market. I think that there's a huge latent demand for small, easily maintainable homes -- that aren't in the ghetto. But Americans feel pressured to buy more house than they need because economic exclusivity is the only practical way to avoid those people.

I don't think the C-suite's obsession with stock price that started/accelerated with Jack Welch has helped either. Obviously businesses are not charities, and they need to be profitable to survive and grow, but it doesn't help endear capitalism to the younger generation when they see thousands of jobs eliminated (likely including their own) not because their company was in danger of going bankrupt, but because they were in danger of missing analysts' expectations and causing a (likely temporary) dip in price per share.

I'm guessing it's easy to believe a system won't work for you when you literally see your livelihood taken from you just so people at the top can get a little bit richer.

How to solve this without government regulation (which rarely, if ever, makes things better)? I have no clue. But I wish we could get way from this over-emphasis on quarterly performance instead of long-term growth and prosperity. Because while capitalism isn't perfect, it's a whole lot better than the alternatives the younger generation will lead us toward as they come into power.

dustin999 said:

---

The problem is not capitalism. The problem is our modern banking and finance system.

People say the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, and that has never felt more true than it does right now. Even with higher interest rates the last couple of years, money is still cheap if you already have money.

In the past, if you had a good business idea, you grew at the speed of your actual success. You earned profit, you reinvested it, and your business expanded over time. Your growth was tied to performance and patience.

Today that time factor is basically gone. If you look promising enough, you can just go borrow huge amounts of money and scale instantly. And the more successful you look, the more banks line up to give you even bigger loans at even better terms.

Thats how someone can go from selling books in a garage to becoming a multibillionaire in a short amount of time. The system rewards access to credit far more than actual business fundamentals.

Meanwhile inflation and rising costs hit people living paycheck to paycheck much harder than people who already have savings, assets, or investment accounts. The system is not lifting everyone. It is multiplying wealth for those who already have it.

Capitalism is not really the issue. The financial system we built on top of it is what is driving the gap wider and faster than ever before.

---

It is still possible to build a successful business the old fashioned way. I know I did in the past 7 years.

My partner and I left as prosecutors and pulled our retirements. We each put $4k in the business and had $20k each to live until our first disbursement. My wife was our accountant for free for the first 18 months.

Fast forward seven years, two major expansions, 10 people working in the business, and now we will probably breach $4mm this year and the 3 equity partner should just barely reach 7 figures each.

Oh and my wife now gets paid by the business too. She deserved it.

I'm not saying it is the norm, but as long as it is still possible, it is superior to socialism. At least you have a shot.

It's almost like people haven't pursued jobs or specialties where the selection rate was extremely small. There will always be failure and success. That's life.

Now is the US going back to before post WWII global hegemony? Yes. There will be a much wider gap between the rich and poor and a much smaller middle class.

Capitalism sucks! It's just better than anything else.

BonfireNerd04 said:

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titan said:

---

Another "cost" imposed by the political and press class is the open enabling of regressive behavior and crime. These create subtle obstacles to growth of youth that interfere with the process of finding both affordable and also tenable (overlooked too often) home locations. This too was not a factor for those that pulled up the ladder. Part of the excess cost of real-estate is whether the area is safe or has reasonably sane schools. These are products of the governing class and the press that runs interference for them.

---

Excellent point about the housing market. I think that there's a huge latent demand for small, easily maintainable homes -- that aren't in the ghetto. But Americans feel pressured to buy more house than they need because economic exclusivity is the only practical way to avoid those people.

---

Agree. I live in a relatively affluent suburb and almost every new development is McMansions. Lot of retirees here or empty nesters like me who would love a smaller house that doesn't require a ton of fixing up or maintenance. Just no inventory or plans to build that fits that bill.

Don't forget, that same political/ press class tries to impose Sec 8 housing deliberately on good neighborhoods. Remember Jarett under Obama. This is why it would be useful if htat could be imposed on that class---the Martha's Vinyard quips have their truth and DeSantis stunt epic.

So the ruling class pre-MAGA was deliberately seeking to make it difficult in the way you describe to just settle for "less house" and less economic level than you really need.

To make someone vote republican requires them to be somewhat educated on economics, business, and history. Since our schools won't/can't do that it's really up to the politicians themselves to do it.

But our politicians are horrible at that - they know nothing but image control and sound bites to motivate existing republican voters. And instead of teaching the voting public about the basics of core republican/conservative policy they go full tilt on the social issues that turns away possible voters and only serves to motivate existing republican voters to vote.

It is almost impossible to get college grads to stay until midnight working on spreadsheets, even at premium wages. Most of the high level shops I have seen have managers that turn the light on, make the coffee, and analysts show up and work until 5, and then quietly slip out the door, while the managers stay until midnight.

It is endemic across industries.

The idea that you can motivate kids to work really hard with the promise of advancement is just gone, with very few exceptions. Most of the really motivated kids are starting their own instagram channel or trading bit-coin; they have no interest in climbing the corporate ladder.

That is a problem for American capitalism. The way you make money in business is to get people to put in discretionary effort in exchange for the promise of advancement. That is the fig for most businesses.

When that goes away, our competitiveness in a global scale is in trouble.

Another aspect of the situation in New York:

Many of the young people who voted for Mamdani don't HAVE to live in New York. They CHOSE to live there, to realize some fantasy engineered via social media. Then they realize how expensive it is and how poor their quality of life is and they want someone to fix it.

The idea that they could go back home or find a lower cost place to live never enters their minds. And recognizing that the cost of living is so high because of unfettered immigration would make them racist.

The only obvious solution is to vote for a socialist. LOL