My Ongoing (indirect) Entitlements Experience

4,090 Views | 50 Replies | Last: 3 mo ago by IIIHorn
AggieKatie2
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My baby boomer Father was a career-long railroad man. Started in the shops at a young age and became a train engineer before I was born. He worked for the railroad for 40+ years, and retired about 12 years ago.

He was a staunch union man, always voting how they directed. Big believer in the railroad retirement program and put his full faith and retirement planning behind it. So much so, to the point that he didn't really invest or save anywhere else.

My father gets a full railroad retirement check each month, and my mother gets 1/2 of what my father gets through the program. Railroad retirement restricts the recipients ability to earn once they start drawing benefits. You can't work for a railroad at all or can't draw benefits. You can work a non-rail job but only up to around $23,000 before it starts reducing your benefits. They never wanted to risk their benefits, so refused to really do any official work after retirement. To date they live in a trailer, have one car, and generally get by ok.

My mother has been having memory issues for several years now, and was officially diagnosed with late-stage mild dementia about 4 months ago. My dad has been providing 24/7 care essentially for her, since she can't be left alone. Despite her relatively "young" age, We've reached a breaking point and she needs full time, professional care.

Memory care and assisted living facilities in the area cost between $3500-$7000+ a month. That top end is equal to or more than their monthly income. We are working towards getting my mother qualified under Medicaid since her 1/2 check has her under the monetary limits.

If she qualifies, the government will get all but $75 of her check, and leave my dad with his check to live off of, but still provide for any meds or other items she may require.


My parents were hard working middle class people. The last 15 years of their careers, they made plenty of money, and could have easily saved and invested a good amount. Instead they spent and put their faith in government and union programs. This completely conflicts with my conservative views and ideals of self-sufficiency. Ideals they are generally responsible for instilling in me. But now I'm here, doing their planning, trying to figure out how to ensure their best interest are served, but limited by their past decisions.

Frustrated, and a bit heartbroken.
samurai_science
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AggieKatie2 said:

My baby boomer Father was a career-long railroad man. Started in the shops at a young age and became a train engineer before I was born. He worked for the railroad for 40+ years, and retired about 12 years ago.

He was a staunch union man, always voting how they directed. Big believer in the railroad retirement program and put his full faith and retirement planning behind it. So much so, to the point that he didn't really invest or save anywhere else.

My father gets a full railroad retirement check each month, and my mother gets 1/2 of what my father gets through the program. Railroad retirement restricts the recipients ability to earn once they start drawing benefits. You can't work for a railroad at all or can't draw benefits. You can work a non-rail job but only up to around $23,000 before it starts reducing your benefits. They never wanted to risk their benefits, so refused to really do any official work after retirement. To date they live in a trailer, have one car, and generally get by ok.

My mother has been having memory issues for several years now, and was officially diagnosed with late-stage mild dementia about 4 months ago. My dad has been providing 24/7 care essentially for her, since she can't be left alone. Despite her relatively "young" age, We've reached a breaking point and she needs full time, professional care.

Memory care and assisted living facilities in the area cost between $3500-$7000+ a month. That top end is equal to or more than their monthly income. We are working towards getting my mother qualified under Medicaid since her 1/2 check has her under the monetary limits.

If she qualifies, the government will get all but $75 of her check, and leave my dad with his check to live off of, but still provide for any meds or other items she may require.


My parents were hard working middle class people. The last 15 years of their careers, they made plenty of money, and could have easily saved and invested a good amount. Instead they spent and put their faith in government and union programs. This completely conflicts with my conservative views and ideals of self-sufficiency. Ideals they are generally responsible for instilling in me. But now I'm here, doing their planning, trying to figure out how to ensure their best interest are served, but limited by their past decisions.

Frustrated, and a bit heartbroken.


To be frank, your parents are still better off than 99% of people in the world, where there is not expectation of retirement AT ALL other than living with family.


The conservative view would have YOU take them in if needed.
KingofHazor
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I feel for you and your folks.

Your parents' situation is not uncommon among retired military officers, also, which reinforces your point. Many think that they are fully protected by their retirement and Tricare and thus do not save or invest. I know a retired (98-year-old!) 2-star general who had to leave assisted living because he and his wife could not afford it. They are depending on friends in the area to help take care of them.
Pizza
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AggieKatie2 said:

My baby boomer Father was a career-long railroad man. Started in the shops at a young age and became a train engineer before I was born. He worked for the railroad for 40+ years, and retired about 12 years ago.

He was a staunch union man, always voting how they directed. Big believer in the railroad retirement program and put his full faith and retirement planning behind it. So much so, to the point that he didn't really invest or save anywhere else.

My father gets a full railroad retirement check each month, and my mother gets 1/2 of what my father gets through the program. Railroad retirement restricts the recipients ability to earn once they start drawing benefits. You can't work for a railroad at all or can't draw benefits. You can work a non-rail job but only up to around $23,000 before it starts reducing your benefits. They never wanted to risk their benefits, so refused to really do any official work after retirement. To date they live in a trailer, have one car, and generally get by ok.

My mother has been having memory issues for several years now, and was officially diagnosed with late-stage mild dementia about 4 months ago. My dad has been providing 24/7 care essentially for her, since she can't be left alone. Despite her relatively "young" age, We've reached a breaking point and she needs full time, professional care.

Memory care and assisted living facilities in the area cost between $3500-$7000+ a month. That top end is equal to or more than their monthly income. We are working towards getting my mother qualified under Medicaid since her 1/2 check has her under the monetary limits.

If she qualifies, the government will get all but $75 of her check, and leave my dad with his check to live off of, but still provide for any meds or other items she may require.


My parents were hard working middle class people. The last 15 years of their careers, they made plenty of money, and could have easily saved and invested a good amount. Instead they spent and put their faith in government and union programs. This completely conflicts with my conservative views and ideals of self-sufficiency. Ideals they are generally responsible for instilling in me. But now I'm here, doing their planning, trying to figure out how to ensure their best interest are served, but limited by their past decisions.

Frustrated, and a bit heartbroken.



Now imagine your life 150 years ago...family taking care of family was normal, difficult, and part of the daily struggle of life.

Love them, help where you can, and have faith in God. Things will work out just fine, even if it doesn't seem like they will from where you're standing right now.
AggieKatie2
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I don't disagree, and currently their trailer is on my sister's property and they help out. We've just reached a point that it isn't enough.
Ag CPA
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FWIW Railroad Retirement is 10x better than Social Security, go back and see how things would have been with the latter.
tysker
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Quote:

My parents were hard working middle class people. The last 15 years of their careers, they made plenty of money, and could have easily saved and invested a good amount. Instead they spent and put their faith in government and union programs. This completely conflicts with my conservative views and ideals of self-sufficiency. Ideals they are generally responsible for instilling in me. But now I'm here, doing their planning, trying to figure out how to ensure their best interest are served, but limited by their past decisions.

There will be a bill to pay, and it will fall on us and then on our children. Gen X and millennials are already subsidizing the gap left by our parents' lack of retirement savings. Add to that a healthcare system that bleeds the elderly through overmedication, and the cost only gets larger, and the burden only grows heavier.
Urban Ag
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I feel your pain. My wife's parents are in a similar situation. They have both been on Texas teacher retirements for 20+ years. I guess they were deluded in to believing the retirement payments would cover everything they needed later in life because they have no money, they never saved nor invested anything in their adult lives.

Then "sh** happens". Houses fall apart. Cars breakdown. Appliances die. My FIL is terrible with money. Both have significant memory loss issues and no question are in some stage of dementia. They've been scammed many times. Credit cards maxed out. Bill collectors. You name it. My wife and I and her brothers have covered a lot of expenses over the years for them.

It's been a long time since I attempted to talk to them about their financial situation. They didn't care and wouldn't listen. Completely brainwashed to believe that just relying on retirement check would be enough. It's always frustrated me that they were so easily lead to believe that govt would take care of everything.
tysker
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Ag CPA said:

FWIW Railroad Retirement is 10x better than Social Security, go back and see how things would have been with the latter.

My father is just below breakeven on his SS check. When the cost of his rent goes up next year, he'll be right at breakeven or touch over (rent includes basic utilities, weekly cleaning & laundry service, and dining room meals that he can't use because of this inability to get around). His kids pay for his food; hospice covers medical treatments. If my dad needs a step up in his housing due to his ongoing mental issues, it's unclear who will pay that bill (I guess it will be my brother and I, who are also looking at near-term college tuition payments for our own children).
one safe place
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AggieKatie2 said:

My baby boomer Father was a career-long railroad man. Started in the shops at a young age and became a train engineer before I was born. He worked for the railroad for 40+ years, and retired about 12 years ago.

He was a staunch union man, always voting how they directed. Big believer in the railroad retirement program and put his full faith and retirement planning behind it. So much so, to the point that he didn't really invest or save anywhere else.

My father gets a full railroad retirement check each month, and my mother gets 1/2 of what my father gets through the program. Railroad retirement restricts the recipients ability to earn once they start drawing benefits. You can't work for a railroad at all or can't draw benefits. You can work a non-rail job but only up to around $23,000 before it starts reducing your benefits. They never wanted to risk their benefits, so refused to really do any official work after retirement. To date they live in a trailer, have one car, and generally get by ok.

My mother has been having memory issues for several years now, and was officially diagnosed with late-stage mild dementia about 4 months ago. My dad has been providing 24/7 care essentially for her, since she can't be left alone. Despite her relatively "young" age, We've reached a breaking point and she needs full time, professional care.

Memory care and assisted living facilities in the area cost between $3500-$7000+ a month. That top end is equal to or more than their monthly income. We are working towards getting my mother qualified under Medicaid since her 1/2 check has her under the monetary limits.

If she qualifies, the government will get all but $75 of her check, and leave my dad with his check to live off of, but still provide for any meds or other items she may require.


My parents were hard working middle class people. The last 15 years of their careers, they made plenty of money, and could have easily saved and invested a good amount. Instead they spent and put their faith in government and union programs. This completely conflicts with my conservative views and ideals of self-sufficiency. Ideals they are generally responsible for instilling in me. But now I'm here, doing their planning, trying to figure out how to ensure their best interest are served, but limited by their past decisions.

Frustrated, and a bit heartbroken.


My heart goes out to you and your parents and sister. And while family used to fill the void in similar situations, longer life expectancies, two-earner households, and general living expenses make that much more difficult than it used to be.

I have four guys who work on the railroad that come and go at our RV park. Some of the nicest guys in the world, always, always pay on time, and never are a problem. They, of course, are union but are all super conservative. Three of the four (the other I am not sure of) have little or no investments outside of their railroad retirement benefits (those three have asked me to look at their tax returns and help them get started investing in the stock market). Apparently, they, like your parents, were planning on what the union will provide them.

My parents got by on his and her social security and his (small) pension. I had had them fund IRA accounts for around 15 years (the limit then was $2,000 or $3,000 per person per year) and they would take out what they could without incurring any tax liability. They never had to go to a nursing home, that would have been a financial backbreaker.

At one point, as my dad was in a hospital bed, the realization came to me that we were going through a role reversal. The man that played a part in getting me into this world, saved me from drowning, provided for me and my brothers, got us raised and out on our own, was now going to be dependent on his sons, similar to how we had once been dependent on him. Though he was 6'2" he looked so small in that bed,

I wish you and your parents the best as you work through this.
AJ02
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I used to work for the RR and paid into RR retirement for a bit. That, combined with the generous 401k match that the big 4 RRs offered meant engineers I talked to were oftentimes taking home more in retirement than they were while still working.

It's funny how RR men were such staunch union supporters, but at the same time, staunch conservatives. It was HELL trying to manage them because they were untouchable from a disciplinary standpoint while they were with the union. They could get away with murder, then basically get paid time off while the union litigated and used every trick in the book to get them back to work. Pretty sickening, honestly.

Anyone who is pro-union these days is a selfish hypocrite.

That said, with regards to your mom having to go into assisted living and not being able to financially swing it....my aunts & uncles had to work to essentially get rid of all my grandmother's assets after my grandfather died so that they couldn't count them towards what she would pay towards assisted living. The house was signed over to one child, checking account handed over to another. I don't know the specifics of how they did it, but there is some way around it.
AggieKatie2
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I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah, if something happens to my dad at this point, he won't qualify for Medicaid due to his RR retirement check, unlike mom, so who knows what we will have to do at that point.
uneedastraw
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I'll chime in on this one with my own personal experience.

Father was in the military 20 years - served in Korea and Vietnam. He retired and then worked for the state for 16. Had some personal challenges and got relieved from that job along with a few others in his late 50's. My mother was a bookkeeper at various jobs…never making much. She had health challenges in her mid 40's which led to some personal challenges for my father.

My mom went on disability in her mid 40's and has never been able to work since. My dad for some reason retired at 65 (most likely because the only job he could get was working at grocery stores for minimum wage at the end of his career.)

So military retirement and social security was what they lived on. Small home one car and really no vacations. My dad was the caretaker for my mother. They were very frugal but thought $70,000in the bank plus a paid off house (not worth much) and their retirements was a lot. My dad knew if he died though, we would have e to send my mom to a nursing home with Medicaid.

He died taking care of my mom. He took her to the bathroom in the middle of the night and she fell into him knocking him into a wall where he hit his head and had a brain bleed to where he died at 88.

We did everything we could for 5 years to keep my mom out of a Medicaid nursing home. But with social security and a small military retirement, 5 years was the limit.

She is fully mentally functional but very limited with mobility. She is in a Medicaid nursing home. It's Terrible. She hates it and holds her kids responsible to an extent. She lives a miserable life to be honest.

Without the small military retirement, we would not have e been able to scrape up enough to keep her out for the 5 years we did.

You don't want to live in a Medicaid nursing home and be fully mentally functional.
AggieKatie2
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That's awful. I'm sorry you lost your Dad in that manner.

The stress, depression, and general stagnation of taking care of my mother full time is honestly severely impacting my dad and his own health, and in my opinion, shortening his life. Trying to do everything I can from 2 hours away to help, but lots of hurdles and stubbornness.
uneedastraw
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Stubbornness is probably an understatement. I applaud you for your efforts. I could not being my mom into my house and take care of her unfortunately. Home is not fit for handicap…live in another state…but most importantly the stubbornness and attitude would have reduced the quality of life for my wife and kids and would have likely led to a divorce.

I have great respect for people who are able to take care of the elderly parents late in life.
BadMoonRisin
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Sorry to hear about your mother. My MIL was diagnosed with MCI (mild cognitive impairment) about 4 years ago and its been very difficult to experience her further decline.
JB99
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Ag CPA said:

FWIW Railroad Retirement is 10x better than Social Security, go back and see how things would have been with the latter.


Are the rules the same for SS? You cant work and draw SS?
AggieKatie2
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Anyone have experience with how to approach facility placement when you know the parent/person will never agree?

Despite her diagnosis, she thinks she is "perfectly fine". Last week she claimed she fell twice. 2nd time she was hysterical and in pain. dad took her to ER, but Dr saw no signs of a fall, and two hours into ER visit she said she was perfectly fine, had no pain, and wanted to go home. It's been 3 years since she last drove, and 2 since we sold her car after Dr said she shouldn't be driving. Some days she's fine, and some days she is beside herself and inconsolable and wants to know why the church won't give her back her sewing machine she let them "borrow" a year ago, when really she donated it to them 20 years ago.

I'm not looking forward to the day, because I know she will be distraught, angry, and never agree to be there.
EclipseAg
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I've said this before, but it bears repeating.

Do not blame your older parents for not investing for their retirement outside of what their employment offered.

Individual investing in the '60s, '70s and '80s was a COMPLETELY different experience than it is today. It was difficult to do and not readily available to working class people. You had to purchase round lots and commissions were expensive.

In fact, most brokers wouldn't even talk with you unless you could prove you had significant funds.

People of that generation weren't conditioned to think about outside investing unless they were wealthy. My dad, for example, thought "investing" was buying U.S. Savings Bonds. It would never have occurred to him to open a brokerage account.

It wasn't until the deregulation of the industry, the rise of the internet and the emergence of discount brokerages that investing became more egalitarian.

Schwab, for example, was one of the first to offer online trading and that didn't happen until 1995. By then, many of today's older people were in their 50s and winding down their careers.
Cibalo
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I feel for you and expect something similar with my teacher parents at some point.

On my wife's side we have had a similar issue. Her mom died in early 60s from cancer. Her dad is 15 years older (turns 90 this year). She did everything for him but he thinks he can care for himself. We tried having him live with us after she passed and it was a miserable 6 months.
We put him in a nice assisted living place that had everything he said he needed. He only left his room for meals. When covid happened we pulled him out and hired a live in care giver at his house. Worked a deal for half in room/board and half to bank account.
After she left with no warning we were back and forth to his house 2-3 times a day. This wasn't workable longterm so we talked with him and came to an agreement for him to come back and live with us. We sold the house and car, had a garage sell, snd moved what he wanted to keep or needed in with us.
We use the money from the sale, his SS check, and Medicare to cover his expenses. Any gaps we cover. This is a cheaper route than assisted living, keeps him mostly happy, allows us to watch him, and when we travel we have a care giver come and stay with him.
PDEMDHC
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First off to OP, I am so sorry for your mom's diagnosis of dementia and what you and your dad are experiencing. I understand what you are going through as my father died from complications back in January 2024. I was lucky enough to have about 6-9 months to take care of him and my mom throughout this time. I don't wish it on anyone.

One thing I cannot stress enough to anyone reading this, if possible, is to invest in long term care insurance when/if you can. My parents had this through my dad's AT&T insurance plan. It paid for up to $350,000 of benefits for him and my mom. Made my mom's quality of life much easier to know she had to pay it monthly but received a check back after 30-45 days or so (like invoicing a client).

When we shopped around to find a place for him, the assisted living places were shocked as he was essentially the only one that had insurance... so everyone was paying out of pocket for everything.

Good luck with your family and will be saying prayers for you!
uneedastraw
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I have experience. It was not fun. I had to do it the week after the funeral of my father. We put her in assisted living at first. She screamed, cried, said mean things like your father is turning in his grave right now putting me in a nursing home

We didn't have to take any legal steps. I honestly don't know what you do if they physically resist. My mother only verbally resisted but in the end just let it happen mainly so she could cry about and use it against us on how she was being mistreated by her kids.

And regarding long term care insurance, I looked into after these circumstances for my wife and myself. It is expensive and really doesn't do much from what I could tell. It limits the financial impact but really is only one small piece of the puzzle. It honestly made much more sense to just save the money independently than pay an insurance company who is in the business of making money.
YouBet
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AggieKatie2 said:

Anyone have experience with how to approach facility placement when you know the parent/person will never agree?

Despite her diagnosis, she thinks she is "perfectly fine". Last week she claimed she fell twice. 2nd time she was hysterical and in pain. dad took her to ER, but Dr saw no signs of a fall, and two hours into ER visit she said she was perfectly fine, had no pain, and wanted to go home. It's been 3 years since she last drove, and 2 since we sold her car after Dr said she shouldn't be driving. Some days she's fine, and some days she is beside herself and inconsolable and wants to know why the church won't give her back her sewing machine she let them "borrow" a year ago, when really she donated it to them 20 years ago.

I'm not looking forward to the day, because I know she will be distraught, angry, and never agree to be there.


Awful and I'm sorry to hear all of this. My FIL had dementia but we didn't know how bad it was until we took a trip to stay with him to assess reality. He lived 7 hours away and had remarried after my wife's mom died. Second wife up and left him because she couldn't handle him anymore and we really didn't know how bad things had gotten. So after she left we flew to visit him to assess situation and after being with him for just a few hours, we realized he could no longer Iive on his own and was frankly a danger to other people because he was still driving. He was in bad shape and oblivious to his own situation.

He had a routine that he followed every single day because that's what folks with memory issues do to try and maintain control. He would eat, breakfast, lunch, and dinner at the same spots every day. And his dinner was a sit down place - sometimes he would pay and sometimes he would just walk out because he would forget to. They were nice people and would just eat the meal if he didn't pay. They didn't know who to call so they just went with it. We learned all of this after the fact.

We literally found post it notes in his car telling him how to drive the damn car. Push button to start. Use right pedal to go. Etc.

Have you seen Memento? That was him.

We had to make a very tough call while we there. My wife immediately started trying to find a place for him where we lived that we could put him. She miraculously found one and we told him he was going to come stay with us "on vacation", so I took his keys and drove him back home with us. When we got back home, we put him in memory care and told him he was basically staying at a hotel while he was visiting us.

He really didn't know any different other than he kept asking us to bring him his car so he could leave. This lasted about a month. After a few months, he flat out forgot who we were and had a daily routine at memory care he carved out for himself. He just lived inside of his head and lived out his last 3 years there. It was a very nice facility as such things go and we lucked out they had an opening.

He passed away in his sleep. When we there figuring out arrangements for him, all of the ladies who worked there (all Africans) came in the room and cried over his passing. It was touching.

So, I wont sugarcoat it; it's probably going to be the hardest thing you ever do in your life but I will pray for you and hope it goes as smoothly as it can.
AggieKatie2
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Thank you for your insight. It's greatly appreciated.
Over_ed
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PDEMDHC said:

First off to OP, I am so sorry for your mom's diagnosis of dementia and what you and your dad are experiencing. I understand what you are going through as my father died from complications back in January 2024. I was lucky enough to have about 6-9 months to take care of him and my mom throughout this time. I don't wish it on anyone.

One thing I cannot stress enough to anyone reading this, if possible, is to invest in long term care insurance when/if you can. My parents had this through my dad's AT&T insurance plan. It paid for up to $350,000 of benefits for him and my mom. Made my mom's quality of life much easier to know she had to pay it monthly but received a check back after 30-45 days or so (like invoicing a client).

When we shopped around to find a place for him, the assisted living places were shocked as he was essentially the only one that had insurance... so everyone was paying out of pocket for everything.

Good luck with your family and will be saying prayers for you!


Adding to this...

Most seniors don't need assisted living for more than a couple of years before demise. But most will need it at some point (incuding those that say are recovering from fall, hip replacemen etc.)

In San Antonio last year we were paying > $250,000 per year, plus extras for non-medically trained caretakers at MIL place, but that was cheap - as it was a senior condo, that had a lot of volume. It helped I was retired and could visit her very frequently. At some point we would have had to move her out of her apartment.

She had "great" extended care (no lifetime cap), but that covered less than a third of the care and over a couple years we would see that drop to less than 1/4th. Some comment here about Bidenflation.

On the bad side, $350k sounds like a lot, but you just can't predict how long you will need it, and it can go very quickly. So don't beat yourself up if you run out.

Cibalo
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This was my FIL. We told him if he was going to live with us he had to behave and stop fighting with us on everything. Wife was pregnant at the time. If not we would need to find other arrangements.
We got his doctor involved who specializes in elder care to give us her diagnosis and recommendations. Told him he could live at home with full time caregiver and it would cost X amount. Or we would find a place that had everything he said he needed for his "full and active" lifestyle. We let him tour it, he got excited about in house physical therapy and that we would get him the exact recliner and bed he needed. We said we would try it for 6 month and if he didn't like it we could discuss.

I found that talking and treating any interaction like I'm dealing with a 3 year old helps.
tysker
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Quote:

And regarding long term care insurance, I looked into after these circumstances for my wife and myself. It is expensive and really doesn't do much from what I could tell. It limits the financial impact but really is only one small piece of the puzzle. It honestly made much more sense to just save the money independently than pay an insurance company who is in the business of making money.

Looked into the coverage for my father, but it cost about $3500 per year, and he was already broke and living off of SSN. No way could he afford another $300/month bill.

I think premiums are even higher for females because they live longer.
Applied Energy
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Just remember that promises, like retirements and social security, depend on a long line of honest and consistent contracts.

I promise, if you give me your body for 40 years, you'll not have to work the next 40 (but you'll have to deal with my inheritors not me for fulfillment). Also ignore inflation and that half of your retirement income will be consumed by taxes. And Insurance will undoubtedly eat the rest.

It won't stop until they are in the ground, and then they'll come for you even harder.
Urban Ag
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katie thanks for the thread.

For Gen X'ers that are in or heading in to these years with your parents, there is a lot of very good real world info posted here.

YouBet
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May I ask how in the world that cost >$250K per year? Holy hell.

Do you mean you were paying a caretaker directly to come to her condo and basically live with her?

We paid ~$8k per month for my FIL's memory care place and that was all-in.
AggieKatie2
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If you price out a 24x7 in home service at an hourly rate, it does come out to $200k+. (Think Visiting angels or comparable).

Just 4 hours a day, 7 days a week runs up to $50k over the year, and that's on the low end.

YouBet
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Ok, just confirming that it was in-home care.
B-1 83
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Ag CPA said:

FWIW Railroad Retirement is 10x better than Social Security, go back and see how things would have been with the latter.

Now imagine how many people are putting their full faith in SS to see them through, and saving very little.
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
tysker
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Using ChatGPT (sourced from 2022 SCF, reported through NerdWallet, Kiplinger, etc.), retirement savings are

ages 5564
$537,560 (mean)
$185,000 (median)

ages 6574
$609,230 (mean)
$200,000 (median)

ages 75+
$462,410 (mean)
$130,000 (median)

A $250k annual out of pocket healthcare bill wipes out the average retiree in about 2-2.5 years and the median retiree in less than one. I have come to accept, through watching my father, a large segment of his generation will be living well below standards they were accustom to
KingofHazor
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EclipseAg said:

I've said this before, but it bears repeating.

Do not blame your older parents for not investing for their retirement outside of what their employment offered.

Individual investing in the '60s, '70s and '80s was a COMPLETELY different experience than it is today. It was difficult to do and not readily available to working class people. You had to purchase round lots and commissions were expensive.

In fact, most brokers wouldn't even talk with you unless you could prove you had significant funds.

People of that generation weren't conditioned to think about outside investing unless they were wealthy. My dad, for example, thought "investing" was buying U.S. Savings Bonds. It would never have occurred to him to open a brokerage account.

It wasn't until the deregulation of the industry, the rise of the internet and the emergence of discount brokerages that investing became more egalitarian.

Schwab, for example, was one of the first to offer online trading and that didn't happen until 1995. By then, many of today's older people were in their 50s and winding down their careers.

This!

On top of everything above, many seniors had their savings in CDs and bonds. The Fed's actions after the housing crisis dropped the interest rates from around 5% to effectively zero. Inflation was then the finishing touch to many seniors savings.

Many seniors made the absolutely correct financial decisions based on the information available to them. Everything changed radically in 2008.

The Fed essentially stole from our seniors in order to bail out the big banks.
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