SB 37

At many universities, presidents share power with faculty senates, which can number in the hundreds. This bill limits senates' sizes, and, more importantly, greatly reduces their possible influence on the running of the university.

I worked at a university (out of Texas) where the president was a hack appointed by a political friend, had no interest in students, and was all about sharing his power (and university funds) with his cronies. For 30+ years.

So, I see some merit in the idea of a faculty senate. Having said that, I would say that most faculty senates are not closely aligned with what most parents or students value. So, I don't care.

SB 2615

Seeks to limit "telework"; most faculty should be on campus "8-5", with exemptions for adjuncts, illness, those teaching distance courses, and doing remote research.

Most of the community colleges are in a panic, with "draconian" changes to policies and establishing documentation of compliance.

The 4-year schools are currently wait and see, as all of this will be governed by the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board.

Some predictions:

1) Depending on the direction of the Coordinating Board, expect a LOT more telecourses.
2) Expect a lot more "remote research".
3) Do not expect improvements in education. This does nothing to improve faculty classroom performance, increase the length/frequency of faculty-student interaction, or increase research quality.

So a sop for those who hate faculty, but not much positive for those of us who care about our kids/grandkids getting out with marketable (or cognitive) skills. Whatever those might be.

Traditional "liberal arts" education has replaced citizenship and leadership with polarization and victimizaton.

With that and AI, I feel that a better direction would have been taking $$$ from universites and devoting it to trade schools. But we Texans love our universities, A&M included.

But I can say that, after all I'm over_ed. :-)

Again sorry for the length.

Question...based on the SB 2615, why should we expect a lot more remote research and telecourses? Isn't that what it's aiming to reduce? If there is detailed documentation required, wouldn't that prevent the 'remote research' claims...that aren't? Maybe I'm misunderstanding...

I will say, as a parent with a kid in school, I think remote classwork is a joke, especially considering the cost is 10x what it was when remote learning didnt exist. I want a prof in class and in their office...available to ask questions, and discuss topics. Real learning is a collaboration. If everything can be done remotely, I fail to see the need for so many faculty, and for such high costs.

Maybe there is a place for it in very low-level classes, or at the community college level. But at a well-respected research University?

Even Trade schools are going to remote for a lot of their course work. That astounds me, since getting as much hands-on work in that trade seems like it would be the absolute sole focus.

Quote:

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Traditional "liberal arts" education has replaced citizenship and leadership with polarization and victimizaton.

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AgGrad99 said:

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Question...based on the SB 2615, why should we expect a lot more remote research and telecourses? Isn't that what it's aiming to reduce? If there is detailed documentation required, wouldn't that prevent the 'remote research' claims...that aren't? Maybe I'm misunderstanding...

I will say, as a parent with a kid in school, I think remote classwork is a joke, especially considering the cost is 10x what it was when remote learning didnt exist. I want a prof in class and in their office...available to ask questions, and discuss topics. Real learning is a collaboration. If everything can be done remotely, I fail to see the need for so many faculty, and for such high costs.

Maybe there is a place for it in very low-level classes, or at the community college level. But at a well-respected research University?

Even Trade schools are going to remote for a lot of their course work. That astounds me, since getting as much hands-on work in that trade seems like it would be the absolute sole focus.

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Because:

if the choice is:

going in to school every day (all day)

or "teaching remote",

many profs will choose the latter.

So up to how the coord board implements this. I agree with you on the quality pf many online courses. Several courses I had iin the last couple of years, the profs literally could not work the homework.

AgGrad99 said:

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Question...based on the SB 2615, why should we expect a lot more remote research and telecourses? Isn't that what it's aiming to reduce? If there is detailed documentation required, wouldn't that prevent the 'remote research' claims...that aren't? Maybe I'm misunderstanding...

I will say, as a parent with a kid in school, I think remote classwork is a joke, especially considering the cost is 10x what it was when remote learning didnt exist. I want a prof in class and in their office...available to ask questions, and discuss topics. Real learning is a collaboration. If everything can be done remotely, I fail to see the need for so many faculty, and for such high costs.

Maybe there is a place for it in very low-level classes, or at the community college level. But at a well-respected research University?

Even Trade schools are going to remote for a lot of their course work. That astounds me, since getting as much hands-on work in that trade seems like it would be the absolute sole focus.

---

I think there is real value in offering remote courses, especially for non-traditional students. There are also some courses that work better via technology in remote situations than they do in person.

I am about to begin a MM program in the Fall that is completely remote. The overwhelming majority of what I will be doing is one-on-one meetings with faculty that don't need me to drive 150 miles just to be physically present. Everything we need to do can be accomplished with technology like screen and audio sharing. This allows me to enroll in a degree program I would not have otherwise been able to enroll in, and it allows the university to enroll more students without compromising academic standards.

I'd agree, there are circumstances where the learning is not diminished...and that's obviously the case with 1-on-1 interaction like you mentioned.

But for the vast majority, the online learning is a joke compared to actual in person teaching, with collaboration of other students and the prof.

Over_ed said:

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Because:

if the choice is:

going in to school every day (all day)

or "teaching remote",

many profs will choose the latter.

So up to how the coord board implements this. I agree with you on the quality pf many online courses. Several courses I had iin the last couple of years, the profs literally could not work the homework.

---

Gotcha.

I thought the measure was to limit remote teaching, unless there was documented research that required them elsewhere.

AgGrad99 said:

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I'd agree, there are circumstances where the learning is not diminished...and that's obviously the case with 1-on-1 interaction like you mentioned.

But for the vast majority, the online learning is a joke compared to actual in person teaching, with collaboration of other students and the prof.

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In my opinion, the dividing line that make an online class more likely to be successful versus a total waste is "online on a schedule" versus "online anytime." Online on a schedule is basically just like a normal class that meets at scheduled times. Students can interact with the instructor and other students in real time, ask questions, and get feedback immediately. Online anytime is self-paced, and many, many college students have difficulty effectively managing their time when it comes to making time for something they have discretion to schedule, especially when there are so many things in school competing for their time.

One of the the other big problems with online courses is class size. Some of these online classes get loaded up with enormous numbers of students. It becomes unmanageable for the instructor, which diminishes the ability to provide meaningful feedback on coursework and academic performance in a timely manner or at all.

Ryan the Temp said:

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AgGrad99 said:

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Question...based on the SB 2615, why should we expect a lot more remote research and telecourses? Isn't that what it's aiming to reduce? If there is detailed documentation required, wouldn't that prevent the 'remote research' claims...that aren't? Maybe I'm misunderstanding...

I will say, as a parent with a kid in school, I think remote classwork is a joke, especially considering the cost is 10x what it was when remote learning didnt exist. I want a prof in class and in their office...available to ask questions, and discuss topics. Real learning is a collaboration. If everything can be done remotely, I fail to see the need for so many faculty, and for such high costs.

Maybe there is a place for it in very low-level classes, or at the community college level. But at a well-respected research University?

Even Trade schools are going to remote for a lot of their course work. That astounds me, since getting as much hands-on work in that trade seems like it would be the absolute sole focus.

---

I think there is real value in offering remote courses, especially for non-traditional students. There are also some courses that work better via technology in remote situations than they do in person.

I am about to begin a MM program in the Fall that is completely remote. The overwhelming majority of what I will be doing is one-on-one meetings with faculty that don't need me to drive 150 miles just to be physically present. Everything we need to do can be accomplished with technology like screen and audio sharing. This allows me to enroll in a degree program I would not have otherwise been able to enroll in, and it allows the university to enroll more students without compromising academic standards.

---

My issues with remote classes:

Everyone cheats. Yeah, you can say grades don't make a difference. But, I think they do. And I think honesty should be required in an academic setting. Without it, most students will opt to cheat and not put in the effort to learn. Besides, an aggie should not....

Many times, the prof adds little or no value. The courses are built overseas, the assistance is overseas. The materials are written by chinese or indian grad students, full of errors. And the profs don't even read the materials, much less check the exercises or exams. Garbage in, garbage out.

I am sure there are exceptions, but online courses typically have less value than in person.

My thoughts: with AI, you can (or shortly will be able) to have it build you a customized course, readings, exercises, and supplementary material better than most online courses.

I think that distance courses have their places, but for most students it is a step down in quality.

I have had the pleasure of working with 3 faculty senates over the course of my career.

Haven't met a useful one yet.

Quote:

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Everyone cheats. Yeah, you can say grades don't make a difference. But, I think they do. And I think honesty should be required in an academic setting. Without it, most students will opt to cheat and not put in the effort to learn. Besides, an aggie should not....

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This is all context-based, of course, but the cheating risk can often be mitigated by a well-designed online course. There is also technology available that can assist in keeping students honest. Some courses used "locked browsers" where the student cannot leave the browser window and do anything else until the instructor or course interface releases the lock. Some courses require students to have a camera that will show them and their entire workspace. What I have seen more often than that sort of thing, though, is coursework designed to serve the same assessment function that would normally be achieved by exams.

Quote:

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Many times, the prof adds little or no value. The courses are built overseas, the assistance is overseas. The materials are written by chinese or indian grad students, full of errors. And the profs don't even read the materials, much less check the exercises or exams. Garbage in, garbage out.

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I have four degrees from reputable public and private universities and colleges, and have taken at least a dozen online courses across all four of them. I have never had any experience where the course was designed by anyone who was not faculty at the college or university. Now the level of engagement by the instructor varied widely, with a couple doing as close to nothing as possible and the rest being very involved and engaged with the class.

I would venture a guess that the problems you are describing with low-quality, foreign-produced content are common at colleges and universities we would likely regard as "diploma mills."

Ryan the Temp said:

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Quote:

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Everyone cheats. Yeah, you can say grades don't make a difference. But, I think they do. And I think honesty should be required in an academic setting. Without it, most students will opt to cheat and not put in the effort to learn. Besides, an aggie should not....

---

This is all context-based, of course, but the cheating risk can often be mitigated by a well-designed online course. There is also technology available that can assist in keeping students honest. Some courses used "locked browsers" where the student cannot leave the browser window and do anything else until the instructor or course interface releases the lock. Some courses require students to have a camera that will show them and their entire workspace. What I have seen more often than that sort of thing, though, is coursework designed to serve the same assessment function that would normally be achieved by exams.

Quote:

---

Many times, the prof adds little or no value. The courses are built overseas, the assistance is overseas. The materials are written by chinese or indian grad students, full of errors. And the profs don't even read the materials, much less check the exercises or exams. Garbage in, garbage out.

---

I have four degrees from reputable public and private universities and colleges, and have taken at least a dozen online courses across all four of them. I have never had any experience where the course was designed by anyone who was not faculty at the college or university. Now the level of engagement by the instructor varied widely, with a couple doing as close to nothing as possible and the rest being very involved and engaged with the class.

I would venture a guess that the problems you are describing with low-quality, foreign-produced content are common at colleges and universities we would likely regard as "diploma mills."

---

Too long response...

Exactly per your description...

In my course last fall, we had exams with locked browser and a camera watching the student - monitored live. The students split the feed going to the test-taker's monitor, ran it back to students out of the view of the camera, group solved the question, and signaled the answer back in.

This was a master's level tech course.

Part of the problem, the prof was a hired gun (CS dept) who had no ownership of the course, and no ownership in the outcome of the students.

And that is another problem with distance courses, in my experience they are frequently taught by:

1) Longtime "classoom" profs who don't want to put time learning technology, because, - "Hell, Im going to retire in a few years".

or

2) "Hired guns", not tenure track, who are low cost and may be doing this for several schools.

There are good profs teaching good online courses, but cheating in my experience is near ubiquitous and in-person courses provide more opportunity for the prof to positively affect students

BTW, you sound like me; I take courses after several degrees/certs because I am personally motivated to learn. But, we are the exception.

That may change in the future. I have no idea who will be be going to college in 10 years, particularly in the event:

• Costs continue to increase so much faster than inflation,
• student loans change (go private or put the schools on the hook for some of the risk of default),
• or, AI changes prospects of employment and/or offers alternatives to learning.

Over_ed said:

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SB 37

At many universities, presidents share power with faculty senates, which can number in the hundreds. This bill limits senates' sizes, and, more importantly, greatly reduces their possible influence on the running of the university.

I worked at a university (out of Texas) where the president was a hack appointed by a political friend, had no interest in students, and was all about sharing his power (and university funds) with his cronies. For 30+ years.

So, I see some merit in the idea of a faculty senate. Having said that, I would say that most faculty senates are not closely aligned with what most parents or students value. So, I don't care.

SB 2615

Seeks to limit "telework"; most faculty should be on campus "8-5", with exemptions for adjuncts, illness, those teaching distance courses, and doing remote research.

Most of the community colleges are in a panic, with "draconian" changes to policies and establishing documentation of compliance.

The 4-year schools are currently wait and see, as all of this will be governed by the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board.

Some predictions:

1) Depending on the direction of the Coordinating Board, expect a LOT more telecourses.
2) Expect a lot more "remote research".
3) Do not expect improvements in education. This does nothing to improve faculty classroom performance, increase the length/frequency of faculty-student interaction, or increase research quality.

So a sop for those who hate faculty, but not much positive for those of us who care about our kids/grandkids getting out with marketable (or cognitive) skills. Whatever those might be.

Traditional "liberal arts" education has replaced citizenship and leadership with polarization and victimizaton.

With that and AI, I feel that a better direction would have been taking $$$ from universites and devoting it to trade schools. But we Texans love our universities, A&M included.

But I can say that, after all I'm over_ed. :-)

Again sorry for the length.

---

Republican states allowing the taxpayer funded indoctrination camps to keep on indoctrinating is a problem.

That needs to be reigned in. Especially far-left loons like this guy:

https://artsci.tamu.edu/sociology/people/profiles/joe-feagin.html

What the actual hell -- look at these classes:

Courses Taught at Texas A&M

• SOCI 323: Sociology of African Americans
• SOCI 611: Classical Social Theory
• SOCI 615: Contemporary Social Theory
• SOCI 662: Racism and Anti-Racism
• SOCI 663: Black and Latino Americans
• SOCI 667: Theories of Racial and Ethnic Relations

Over_ed said:

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AgGrad99 said:

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Question...based on the SB 2615, why should we expect a lot more remote research and telecourses? Isn't that what it's aiming to reduce? If there is detailed documentation required, wouldn't that prevent the 'remote research' claims...that aren't? Maybe I'm misunderstanding...

I will say, as a parent with a kid in school, I think remote classwork is a joke, especially considering the cost is 10x what it was when remote learning didnt exist. I want a prof in class and in their office...available to ask questions, and discuss topics. Real learning is a collaboration. If everything can be done remotely, I fail to see the need for so many faculty, and for such high costs.

Maybe there is a place for it in very low-level classes, or at the community college level. But at a well-respected research University?

Even Trade schools are going to remote for a lot of their course work. That astounds me, since getting as much hands-on work in that trade seems like it would be the absolute sole focus.

---

Because:

if the choice is:

going in to school every day (all day)

or "teaching remote",

many profs will choose the latter.

So up to how the coord board implements this. I agree with you on the quality pf many online courses. Several courses I had iin the last couple of years, the profs literally could not work the homework.

---

Of course they'd choose that. Is that the best thing for public tax dollar education though? That's a LOT of money students/parents pay for their kid to sit at a computer and watch a video.

Then the tuition should go down as should the "building use fees" and all other money grabs that are levied on people attending class in person.

Remote classes should be HEAVILY discounted.

The entire idea of education in this country is going through massive change and not sure where it ends up. Posted about this the other day but related....smaller to medium schools are failing everywhere. There have been ~260 of them that have closed shop in the last few years because kids are going to big state schools and brand names en masse at this point.

On one hand, that's a good thing because it means a lot of these smaller liberal arts schools that are really just far left wing indoctrination camps are going away. In turn, it is making entrance requirements at historically "easy" schools way more competitive - a good thing. But then, I'm not sure what the actual quality of an onsite education looks like anymore because universities, in general, have become more left wing radical.

I would hate for my kids to do their undergraduate all online because that 4 year experience is still essential for failing and learning about life beyond just your schoolwork.

There are a lot of other bills hitting universities, but these are certainly 2 of the biggest. There are even other parts of SB37 that are going to be bigger than just the faculty senates.

At TAMU, The kicker with online courses is that despite the fact that students don't take up space, seats, air conditioning, or flush the toilets while on campus, they pay a 3 digit premium $$$ per credit hour. $300-900 per credit hour. "Distance Ed Differential Tuition." This is why some courses are offered in one section in person. And 10 online. Force students into the money makers.

Look at ECON 202/203. A required course for a huge % of degrees. 90%+ of the seats are online only and students MUST pay the premium, higher rate.

Broken.

I have relative who started teaching remotely during COVID and loved it. Pretty much all they did even after. Moved to another state and continued to do it for a year before retiring.

Over_ed said:

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With that and AI, I feel that a better direction would have been taking $$$ from universites and devoting it to trade schools. But we Texans love our universities, A&M included.

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Do public trade schools exist in Texas?

What prevents A&M from creating a trade school branch?

What are the pros and cons if A&M did open a trade school branch?


As I get older and watch the world shift to automation and AI in the white collar world, the more I become a proponent of trade schools but never considered the synergy that could be harnessed by a traditional university like A&M offering trade school classes mixed with a business degree emphasizing entrepreneurship.

BTKAG97 said:

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Over_ed said:

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With that and AI, I feel that a better direction would have been taking $$$ from universites and devoting it to trade schools. But we Texans love our universities, A&M included.

---

Do public trade schools exist in Texas?

What prevents A&M from creating a trade school branch?

What are the pros and cons if A&M did open a trade school branch?


As I get older and watch the world shift to automation and AI in the white collar world, the more I become a proponent of trade schools but never considered the synergy that could be harnessed by a traditional university like A&M offering trade school classes mixed with a business degree emphasizing entrepreneurship.

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Blinn and TSTC offer a lot of stuff in the trades.