The scandal on the Quad you never heard about. A quick look at the President's Corps of Cadets Quick Look Assessment. And after 150 years of the Corps of Cadets and 50 years of gender integration, is there a future for all-male outfits?
Can We Still Save the Corps? Part 3 of 3 The Beagle

I've enjoyed the series so far.

Pretty much echoes what my discussions have been with my corps buddies.

That's a really long, rambling stream of consciousness without any really thesis. I tried following along but found myself skipping paragraphs looking for the so what

Tango.Mike said:

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That's a really long, rambling stream of consciousness without any really thesis. I tried following along but found myself skipping paragraphs looking for the so what

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Come by. I'll prescribe you some Adderall.

https://thebeagledotcom.wordpress.com/

Part one reading through to three is great.

My corps buds talk about all this quite a bit. Sharing with them, good articles and series OP.

TLDR: DEI has been killing the Corps.

Don't quit or give up what has made A&M a unique and special place. Most if not all the traditions that are meaningful came from the cadets. It's not the same and may be on a down trend but that can change for the better. Starts at the top. Need good leadership.

agaberto said:

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TLDR: DEI has been killing the Corps.

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. Trigon micromanage wirh DEI goals

agaberto said:

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TLDR: DEI has been killing the Corps.

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You certainly put it more succinctly

Maybe it is just me as I was a non-reg and so was my dad, but when my son went to his night with the Corps, I was not really impressed by the civilian advisor(s). My son is choosing a ROTC path with plans for medical school and military service. To me at least, that is a rather unique path that I do not fully understand.

I have read everything online about the path and also the Cadet to Medicine program. After our visit, I had some detailed questions about this path and ensuring my son is doing all that he can to leverage it. The response I got from the advisor was a link to the Cadet to Medicine material that I formed the questions from. No follow up.

Now, we will figure it out, because his pathway is set through the Corps and TAMU. He did not need to be recruited. But we sat in that room with kids and parents that have a choice in where they attend school. If they got the same response that I did to legit questions, I do not believe that TAMU would be on the top of the list for those kids.

Also, of note is that when our group of 70-75 students and parents were asked to identify as former students and former cadets, about 30% raised their hand for being a former student. Of those former students about 5 were former cadets. So, 70% of those families had no affiliation with TAMU. That is a great opportunity, because it means there is an interest, but if not handled correctly it is a great opportunity to fail.

Never should've done away with all male outfits. I still believe the destruction of that was the long con of getting a female mascot corporal, which they did. Is E2 even a legit outfit anymore?

I'm surprised 5 for yell hasn't hamfisted in a woman yet. Which will then be 2, then 3, then it's the "first majority woman yell leader crew". That's all these paper pushers care about.

BenFiasco14 said:

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Never should've done away with all male outfits. I still believe the destruction of that was the long con of getting a female mascot corporal, which they did. Is E2 even a legit outfit anymore?

I'm surprised 5 for yell hasn't hamfisted in a woman yet. Which will then be 2, then 3, then it's the "first majority woman yell leader crew". That's all these paper pushers care about.

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Man, it does not feel right saying negative things about a group that I was never a part of, but I think since my son will be a cadet, I think have a little wiggle room.

When we went to the quad to watch evening formation, I noticed a group in ruck's carrying rifles running in. They were strung out pretty good, about half of the quad in length from the lead runner to the last runner. I didn't realize who they were until they got in formation and started getting hollered at, it was the fish drill team leadership as best I can tell (There were not enough cadets there to constitute the entire drill team).

I remember even regular units used to run in formation from my early mornings showing up on campus during school. If the fish drill team is not doing this anymore is anyone?

Last march in I watched the wife and I estimated about 10% ish of the cadets were female but they were about 85% of the first sergeants.

Saw first hand the woke DEI BS when I sat through the welcome to spend the night with the corps program when dropping off kid.

Tango.Mike said:

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That's a really long, rambling stream of consciousness without any really thesis. I tried following along but found myself skipping paragraphs looking for the so what

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I thought the 3rd installment was quite well written but I've got a degree in Engineering so what do I know?

And if we want to play bias games, I have a conscious bias against the author due to my perception of some issues from when he was a Zip.

I'm always skeptical of some of these inside source stories but, he brought some receipts (literally).

As I read some of these stories I think - what the actual F? How did something like that even make it out of the batter's box?

These are the kinds of conversations we need to be having before some academia decides for us.

JB!98 said:

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Also, of note is that when our group of 70-75 students and parents were asked to identify as former students and former cadets, about 30% raised their hand for being a former student. Of those former students about 5 were former cadets. So, 70% of those families had no affiliation with TAMU. That is a great opportunity, because it means there is an interest, but if not handled correctly it is a great opportunity to fail.

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I had a very similar experience a decade ago when my daughter did the Spend the Night with the Corps at Texas A&M.

Obviously I had an inherent bias in favor of Texas A&M but there were parents in the room whose kids were from Illinois, California, etc. They didn't know the first thing about Texas (the State) or Texas A&M.

Apparently the full time Corps Staff member who gave the briefing wasn't the guy who normally delivered it but this guy was totally unprepared to answer questions that parents had. I hope they've improved that during the past decade.

The week prior to our visit to College Station, my daughter had done the Spend the Night with the Corps at Virginia Tech and that program was very well run and they spent a lot of time selling Virginia Tech and their Corps to parents. I was very impressed.

A&M - literally the guy said, well, we already know you want your child to go here (insinuating that there were no other options) and then proceeded to underwhelm.

Ultimately, she wound up getting an Engineering Degree at Virginia Military Institute. Would have loved for her to be an Aggie but... Ra Va Mil!

I'm predict the corps will be no more than a regular ROTC program within 20 more years.

Only exception is if someone pulled it out and actually makes the conscious decision to go against the grain and do what's right.


Get the the hell out of the way and let the corps run itself, which will take care of the DEI and non-Merit issues.

oldord said:

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I'm predict the corps will be no more than a regular ROTC program within 20 more years.

Only exception is if someone pulled it out and actually makes the conscious decision to go against the grain and do what's right.


Get the the hell out of the way and let the corps run itself, which will take care of the DEI and non-Merit issues.

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The problem is leaders we hire are Military generals who never ran an organization of this type. Like it or not, the Corps popularity and thus its success has actual customers to impress with value.

Military leaders don't have the first clue of this type of transaction, because they never had customers in their respective fields, only bosses and their own people to take care of.

They use the same tools they have to make the corps successful that they did in their respective career and it inevitably fails miserably.

They never go ask people, "what is the most valuable thing about the corps for people that have been in the corps"?

And even if they get that far, they don't like the answer and then the inevitable action because typically the leaders we select are political by nature and don't want the liability and difficult thought that goes into making that value work through this organization.

They'd rather do what they know as general robots and do what they're told by other political monsters at the top. **** the kids and the old corps guys. What do they matter?

BenFiasco14 said:

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Never should've done away with all male outfits. I still believe the destruction of that was the long con of getting a female mascot corporal, which they did. Is E2 even a legit outfit anymore?

I'm surprised 5 for yell hasn't hamfisted in a woman yet. Which will then be 2, then 3, then it's the "first majority woman yell leader crew". That's all these paper pushers care about.

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My son is the CO of E2 and they just won the General Moore award this year.

They are a legit outfit.

JB!98 said:

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Maybe it is just me as I was a non-reg and so was my dad, but when my son went to his night with the Corps, I was not really impressed by the civilian advisor(s). My son is choosing a ROTC path with plans for medical school and military service. To me at least, that is a rather unique path that I do not fully understand.

I have read everything online about the path and also the Cadet to Medicine program. After our visit, I had some detailed questions about this path and ensuring my son is doing all that he can to leverage it. The response I got from the advisor was a link to the Cadet to Medicine material that I formed the questions from. No follow up.

Now, we will figure it out, because his pathway is set through the Corps and TAMU. He did not need to be recruited. But we sat in that room with kids and parents that have a choice in where they attend school. If they got the same response that I did to legit questions, I do not believe that TAMU would be on the top of the list for those kids.

Also, of note is that when our group of 70-75 students and parents were asked to identify as former students and former cadets, about 30% raised their hand for being a former student. Of those former students about 5 were former cadets. So, 70% of those families had no affiliation with TAMU. That is a great opportunity, because it means there is an interest, but if not handled correctly it is a great opportunity to fail.

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Sadly, I think the key word in your post which might explain the lack of follow-up from the recruiters is "son". If he is also white, they will have had even less interest. That's not to say they are discriminating on admission in an overt way. It's just the biases they have built into the process in multiple ways.

Troy91 said:

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BenFiasco14 said:

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Never should've done away with all male outfits. I still believe the destruction of that was the long con of getting a female mascot corporal, which they did. Is E2 even a legit outfit anymore?

I'm surprised 5 for yell hasn't hamfisted in a woman yet. Which will then be 2, then 3, then it's the "first majority woman yell leader crew". That's all these paper pushers care about.

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My son is the CO of E2 and they just won the General Moore award this year.

They are a legit outfit.

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There are seven (possibly eight) all male outfits. Congrats to E-2! Here's the kicker. According to this year's "merit-based" and unbiased leadership selection process, NO sophomore had enough leadership potential to be 1st Sgt? In a Gen Moore outfit? Sorry, that doesn't add up.

I agree with the premise that there needs to be all male units and there are good mixed units.

My point is that solely determining a "real unit" by whether it is mixed or not is a flawed premise.

Also, it sounds like TheBeagle and I might share the same concerns about the 1st sergeant selection process for next year.

Hopefully, we can talk in person tomorrow morning

I agree for the most part in the lack of military having experience in dealing with customers and customer service. But, my military experience was different. As a combat engineer officer, I always had that customer. Either the infantry or armor task force, supported separate brigade etc. The customer leaned on me for a service that I (we) provided. And we always tried to refine that service to the desire of the customer. Anyway, just my experience in 9 years of active Army. Maybe we need general officers that may not be Infantry or Armor.

HollywoodBQ said:

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JB!98 said:

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Also, of note is that when our group of 70-75 students and parents were asked to identify as former students and former cadets, about 30% raised their hand for being a former student. Of those former students about 5 were former cadets. So, 70% of those families had no affiliation with TAMU. That is a great opportunity, because it means there is an interest, but if not handled correctly it is a great opportunity to fail.

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I had a very similar experience a decade ago when my daughter did the Spend the Night with the Corps at Texas A&M.

Obviously I had an inherent bias in favor of Texas A&M but there were parents in the room whose kids were from Illinois, California, etc. They didn't know the first thing about Texas (the State) or Texas A&M.

Apparently the full time Corps Staff member who gave the briefing wasn't the guy who normally delivered it but this guy was totally unprepared to answer questions that parents had. I hope they've improved that during the past decade.

The week prior to our visit to College Station, my daughter had done the Spend the Night with the Corps at Virginia Tech and that program was very well run and they spent a lot of time selling Virginia Tech and their Corps to parents. I was very impressed.

A&M - literally the guy said, well, we already know you want your child to go here (insinuating that there were no other options) and then proceeded to underwhelm.

Ultimately, she wound up getting an Engineering Degree at Virginia Military Institute. Would have loved for her to be an Aggie but... Ra Va Mil!

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I was a big advocate for him to go to the Naval Academy. He considered it and decided he wanted to be a 3rd generation Aggie. So here we are. Too much indoctrination to A&M over his 17 years.

oldag941 said:

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I agree for the most part in the lack of military having experience in dealing with customers and customer service. But, my military experience was different. As a combat engineer officer, I always had that customer. Either the infantry or armor task force, supported separate brigade etc. The customer leaned on me for a service that I (we) provided. And we always tried to refine that service to the desire of the customer. Anyway, just my experience in 9 years of active Army. Maybe we need general officers that may not be Infantry or Armor.

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I'm ex military as well. You're speaking to my point.

Those are "customers" but they are part of the same organization and the same larger unit. You all deal with a lot of the same bs state side and understand a bit about each other's mo.

It's not the same as having customers OUTSIDE your organization. Those people you have to step out of your box to understand. Not only that, but the Corps needs to understand their competition. *

Which isn't other ROTC programs or service academies. Ideally it is, but as a large D&C component, you can't be that close minded.

Why do former Corps Turds say,"I'm not sending my kid to the weak ass Corps, I'd rather tell them join a frat."

I will be there tomorrow for Final Review.

BillYeoman said:

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I will be there tomorrow for Final Review.

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I will not but I hope they look sharp. Especially the boozers

HollywoodBQ said:

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JB!98 said:

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Also, of note is that when our group of 70-75 students and parents were asked to identify as former students and former cadets, about 30% raised their hand for being a former student. Of those former students about 5 were former cadets. So, 70% of those families had no affiliation with TAMU. That is a great opportunity, because it means there is an interest, but if not handled correctly it is a great opportunity to fail.

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I had a very similar experience a decade ago when my daughter did the Spend the Night with the Corps at Texas A&M.

Obviously I had an inherent bias in favor of Texas A&M but there were parents in the room whose kids were from Illinois, California, etc. They didn't know the first thing about Texas (the State) or Texas A&M.

Apparently the full time Corps Staff member who gave the briefing wasn't the guy who normally delivered it but this guy was totally unprepared to answer questions that parents had. I hope they've improved that during the past decade.

The week prior to our visit to College Station, my daughter had done the Spend the Night with the Corps at Virginia Tech and that program was very well run and they spent a lot of time selling Virginia Tech and their Corps to parents. I was very impressed.

A&M - literally the guy said, well, we already know you want your child to go here (insinuating that there were no other options) and then proceeded to underwhelm.

Ultimately, she wound up getting an Engineering Degree at Virginia Military Institute. Would have loved for her to be an Aggie but... Ra Va Mil!

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As an aside on Virginia Tech, I don't know LtGen Bierman except by very positive opinions from his peers but I do know MajGen Bill Seely that just took over as Commandant of the Virginia Tech Corps of Cadets. They got a great leader.