I know the percentages are out there....roughly 50% of the population pays $0 in income tax, but are there any raw numbers. How many tax returns are submitted that have paid at least $1 to the gov't?

You're looking for net taxpayers. Those who have $5k withheld from their paycheck but get a refund of $10k are not taxpayers.

X + 50% = 100%

MemphisAg1 said:

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You're looking for net taxpayers. Those who have $5k withheld from their paycheck but get a refund of $10k are not taxpayers.

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Yep, this is one of the better tricks the government does. They get people to "pay" only to give them back their own money so it allows them to feel like they actually paid something. The reality is the cost of the processing of all of that makes it an even bigger revenue loser.

When you realize that the income tax system is designed for control and social policy and not revenue collection a lot more makes sense. Income taxes are a horribly inefficient way to collect revenue and that is if we didn't have miles of tax code that no one understands.

Aggie95 said:

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I know the percentages are out there....roughly 50% of the population pays $0 in income tax, but are there any raw numbers. How many tax returns are submitted that have paid at least $1 to the gov't?

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Hard to say. If you add SS, Medicare, property tax, sales tax, income tax (local, state, and federal), and all other taxes (licenses, registrations, tolls, gasoline, etc.) together, and subtract credits, subsidies, vouchers, etc., I wonder what the number would be.

I'm talking about taxpayers in general, since income tax isn't relevant for lots of people.

Me… I wrote some big tax checks last year for our business, I would at least hope it fund part of a tank or weapon, or help build some nice roads instead I'm funding LGBT sitcoms in Chile and Gay parades in West Monrovia along with Chelsea Clinton's $250k monthly money shopping money and vacations

Great question for AI.

Based on the latest available data from 2022, approximately 50% of taxpayers in the United States are net income tax payers. The top 50% of all taxpayers paid 97% of all federal individual income taxes, while the bottom 50% paid the remaining 3%2.
In 2022, taxpayers filed 153.8 million tax returns2. This means that roughly 76.9 million taxpayers (50% of 153.8 million) were net income tax payers.
It's important to note that while some individuals may not pay federal income taxes, they often contribute through other forms of taxation:
[ol]

Many who don't pay federal income tax still pay payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare3.

State and local taxes, including sales taxes, are paid by most Americans regardless of their federal income tax status3.

Some individuals may not pay federal income taxes due to low income, retirement benefits, or tax credits for working families with children3.

[/ol]The percentage of Americans who don't pay federal income taxes can fluctuate based on economic conditions and changes in tax policy. For example, during the COVID-19 pandemic, there were significant shifts in income distribution and tax policies that affected these numbers6.
Citations:
[ol]

https://www.ntu.org/foundation/tax-page/who-pays-income-taxes

https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2025/

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/five-myths-about-the-47-percent/

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/18/who-pays-and-doesnt-pay-federal-income-taxes-in-the-us/

https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/26506/901527-Five-Myths-About-the-Percent.pdf

https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2024/

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/projections/tables/taxpayers.html

https://www.irs.gov/statistics

[/ol]
Answer from Perplexity: pplx.ai/share

i never get any money back and have money stolen from my check and have to write a check every year.

yes the correct word is stolen clearly we have alle xperienced taxation without representation for much longer than most would ever know.

GROK estimate:

To estimate the total number of adults in the U.S. who pay no federal income tax, we can piece together some available data and make reasonable assumptions. As of the most recent comprehensive analyses, around 40-44% of U.S. households paid no federal income tax in 2022, according to estimates from groups like the Tax Policy Center. This percentage fluctuates year to year based on economic conditions, tax policies, and credits like the Earned Income Tax Credit or Child Tax Credit.

The U.S. Census Bureau estimated there were about 128 million households in 2022. Using the lower end of the range, 40% of 128 million gives us roughly 51.2 million households that paid no federal income tax. Now, not every household consists solely of adults, and not every adult files taxes independentlysome are dependents, non-filers, or part of multi-adult households. The average U.S. household size was about 2.5 people in recent years, but this includes children. For tax purposes, we're interested in adults (age 18+), who make up the bulk of tax filers or non-filers.

The adult population (18 and over) in the U.S. was approximately 258 million in 2022, per Census estimates. However, tax data focuses on "tax units"individuals or couples filing returns, plus non-filerswhich doesn't directly align with raw adult population numbers. In 2022, the IRS processed about 161.3 million tax returns, and around 31.4% (or 50.7 million) of those showed no federal income tax liability. But this still doesn't account for adults who don't file at all, a group estimated at 10-15 million tax units, many of whom also owe no tax due to low income.

To bridge this, consider that the Tax Policy Center's 40-44% "no tax" figure includes both filers and non-filers. If we assume 42% of tax units (a midpoint) owe no tax, and estimate total tax units at around 175 million (161.3 million filers plus 13-14 million non-filers), that's about 73.5 million tax units paying no federal income tax. A tax unit often represents one adult (singles) or two (couples), but data suggests about 60% of U.S. adults file as singles or heads of household, and 40% are in joint-filing couples. Averaging this out, each tax unit might represent roughly 1.4-1.6 adults.

Multiplying 73.5 million tax units by an average of 1.5 adults per unit gives us approximately 110 million adults linked to no-tax situations. Adjusting for overlap (e.g., non-working spouses or dependents), a more conservative estimate might land closer to 100-105 million adults. This aligns with broader trends: about 40% of the 258 million adults103 millioncould plausibly pay no federal income tax, factoring in low earners, retirees, and those offset by credits.



So, a rough estimate for 2022, carried forward to now (assuming stable policy), is about 100-110 million U.S. adults who pay no federal income tax. This number hinges on economic recovery post-pandemic and the expiration of temporary tax boosts, but it's a solid ballpark based on current patterns.

Income tax should be relevant to everyone because everyone that works should pay income tax. 50% are leeches because they pay no income tax which is exactly what OP is about.

94chem said:

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Aggie95 said:

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I know the percentages are out there....roughly 50% of the population pays $0 in income tax, but are there any raw numbers. How many tax returns are submitted that have paid at least $1 to the gov't?

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Hard to say. If you add SS, Medicare, property tax, sales tax, income tax (local, state, and federal), and all other taxes (licenses, registrations, tolls, gasoline, etc.) together, and subtract credits, subsidies, vouchers, etc., I wonder what the number would be.

I'm talking about taxpayers in general, since income tax isn't relevant for lots of people.

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SS and Medicare taxes pay for those specific programs, not the funding of the federal government.

Property tax pays for local programs like schools, police, fire and other programs, not the funding of the federal government.

State and local income taxes pay for state and local programs, not the funding of the federal government.

Licenses, registrations, tolls, and gasoline taxes pay for those programs, not the funding of the federal government.

If we're talking about federal government taxes, then all those other taxes are irrelevant to that topic. When this conversation comes up, a lot of people who don't pay federal taxes on a net basis will try to deflect by saying they pay "taxes," but they're deliberately obscuring the fact they don't pay federal taxes. Everybody above the poverty level needs to have skin in the game when it comes to federal taxes.

fullback44 said:

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Me… I wrote some big tax checks last year for our business, I would at least hope it fund part of a tank or weapon, or help build some nice roads instead I'm funding LGBT sitcoms in Chile and Gay parades in West Monrovia along with Chelsea Clinton's $250k monthly money shopping money and vacations

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It's not just the check you wrote last year. From a dollar perspective it is every dime you will ever pay in your lifetime - wasted on left wing globalist crap over the past six decades and lining the pockets of swamp creatures.

Every taxpayer in this country should be royally pissed and demanding not just that it stop, but that those responsible do prison time.

backintexas2013 said:

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Income tax should be relevant to everyone because everyone that works should pay income tax. 50% are leeches because they pay no income tax which is exactly what OP is about.

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Sure, but are people who take asset-leveraged loans leeches too?

MemphisAg1 said:

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94chem said:

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Aggie95 said:

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I know the percentages are out there....roughly 50% of the population pays $0 in income tax, but are there any raw numbers. How many tax returns are submitted that have paid at least $1 to the gov't?

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Hard to say. If you add SS, Medicare, property tax, sales tax, income tax (local, state, and federal), and all other taxes (licenses, registrations, tolls, gasoline, etc.) together, and subtract credits, subsidies, vouchers, etc., I wonder what the number would be.

I'm talking about taxpayers in general, since income tax isn't relevant for lots of people.

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Everybody above the poverty level needs to have skin in the game when it comes to federal taxes.

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About 11% of US adults live below poverty line.

Are they taking it from the government and from taxpayers? If they take the loan, like a student loan, then don't pay it back and want the government to pay it back then yes.

94chem said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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94chem said:

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Aggie95 said:

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I know the percentages are out there....roughly 50% of the population pays $0 in income tax, but are there any raw numbers. How many tax returns are submitted that have paid at least $1 to the gov't?

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Hard to say. If you add SS, Medicare, property tax, sales tax, income tax (local, state, and federal), and all other taxes (licenses, registrations, tolls, gasoline, etc.) together, and subtract credits, subsidies, vouchers, etc., I wonder what the number would be.

I'm talking about taxpayers in general, since income tax isn't relevant for lots of people.

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Everybody above the poverty level needs to have skin in the game when it comes to federal taxes.

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About 11% of US adults live below poverty line.

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Ok. I don't think anybody at or below the poverty line should pay taxes.

If you're above it you can pay something toward all the taxing entities. Not much, but something that reinforces you have skin in the game.

Not enough. The lower three or so quintiles are such large net recipients of credits and benefits that they have roughly the same net income across the spectrum. That tells me we don't have enough contributors and too many recipients.

The tax situation has become worse for large families who itemize; you know, the kind who have good incomes, own homes, and tithe.

94chem said:

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backintexas2013 said:

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Income tax should be relevant to everyone because everyone that works should pay income tax. 50% are leeches because they pay no income tax which is exactly what OP is about.

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Sure, but are people who take asset-leveraged loans leeches too?

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What does that have to do with this topic? If it's their asset paid for with their wealth that was already taxed, what's the problem with someone using that already-taxed asset to obtain a loan, upon which they'll pay interest to whoever loaned them the money?

I don't get the objection to that. Is it just pure jealousy that some people worked hard to acquire assets and they use them to grow their wealth, or simply to provide joy and entertainment? What's wrong with that?

https://Fairtax.org

If the Government gives our DOGE dividend and tax breaks to the people, won't that increase inflation?

One of the positive things from Governments giving the rich more tax breaks and making them richer is that the rich guys cannot spend any more so inflation is not affected as much. Making everyone richer means no one is richer.

MemphisAg1 said:

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94chem said:

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backintexas2013 said:

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Income tax should be relevant to everyone because everyone that works should pay income tax. 50% are leeches because they pay no income tax which is exactly what OP is about.

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Sure, but are people who take asset-leveraged loans leeches too?

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What does that have to do with this topic? If it's their asset paid for with their wealth that was already taxed, what's the problem with someone using that already-taxed asset to obtain a loan, upon which they'll pay interest to whoever loaned them the money?

I don't get the objection to that. Is it just pure jealousy that some people worked hard to acquire assets and they use them to grow their wealth, or simply to provide joy and entertainment? What's wrong with that?

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Ok. Then why isn't the interest on my cash-out refinance tax deductible?

Heck, why is mortgage interest capped at all? It's a loan against an identifiable asset. No less, one that gets taxed every year with no cap.

One of my favorite comments from someone we were performing some government funded work for…

"I paid into taxes my whole life and I am going to claiming for assistance until I get paid back what is mine."

I didn't think it worth the fight to challenge her math, but it's indicative of the mentality of many Americans. If they think they have paid X in taxes, they believe they are entitled to at least 1x in benefits, but typical 2x, 3x and more.

The fact the math doesn't pencil and that large payers will never glimpse a 1x return is nothing but racist white privileged fancy talk nonsense.

94chem said:

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Ok. Then why isn't the interest on my cash-out refinance tax deductible?

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Lol, I'm not defending the US tax code. It's way too complicated and unfairly picks winners and losers.

No expert here, but to your question, mortgage interest on a primary home purchase is deductible. Interest on a personal cash-out refi is not. I don't think it's deductible either for someone who gets a loan against a personal asset. It probably is deductible as a business expense if taken against a business asset and used for business purposes.

I'm in favor a flat income tax with no deductions of any kind. Exempt everybody below the poverty level and roll with it. No picking winners and losers; everybody above the poverty level with skin in the game.

If social security had a lump sum option, a 65+ casino would make somebody a trillionaire in about 2 weeks.

Common sense says you need skin in the game to make our system work. If approximately 40% of the adult population pays no income tax but still votes, they aren't going to vote to start paying taxes and they are going to continue to vote for more services for themselves. This is human nature.

Either tax everyone at a reasonable rate or remove their right to vote if they pay no taxes so they don't continue to vote themselves services paid for by those of us carrying all the weight currently.

It's all Tom Fox and Elon.

Ag97 said:

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Common sense says you need skin in the game to make our system work. If approximately 40% of the adult population pays no income tax but still votes, they aren't going to vote to start paying taxes and they are going to continue to vote for more services for themselves. This is human nature.

Either tax everyone at a reasonable rate or remove their right to vote if they pay no taxes so they don't continue to vote themselves services paid for by those of us carrying all the weight currently.

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True, but remember that one of the key tenets of populism is to give the people something-for-nothing. This happens in both right wing and left wing regimes.

94chem said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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94chem said:

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Aggie95 said:

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I know the percentages are out there....roughly 50% of the population pays $0 in income tax, but are there any raw numbers. How many tax returns are submitted that have paid at least $1 to the gov't?

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Hard to say. If you add SS, Medicare, property tax, sales tax, income tax (local, state, and federal), and all other taxes (licenses, registrations, tolls, gasoline, etc.) together, and subtract credits, subsidies, vouchers, etc., I wonder what the number would be.

I'm talking about taxpayers in general, since income tax isn't relevant for lots of people.

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Everybody above the poverty level needs to have skin in the game when it comes to federal taxes.

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About 11% of US adults live below poverty line.

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The 11% was all people, not just adults, per the US Census Bureau in 2023, the latest data.

I specifically looked for adults, and the results said "adults," but as with most AI, it may be faster, but I'm usually smarter. AI search results are at least 50% garbage. So what is the real number?

fullback44 said:

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Me… I wrote some big tax checks last year for our business, I would at least hope it fund part of a tank or weapon, or help build some nice roads instead I'm funding LGBT sitcoms in Chile and Gay parades in West Monrovia along with Chelsea Clinton's $250k monthly money shopping money and vacations

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That money was used to find terrorism and kill humans worldwide. Stop being a terrorist.

94chem said:

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Ag97 said:

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Common sense says you need skin in the game to make our system work. If approximately 40% of the adult population pays no income tax but still votes, they aren't going to vote to start paying taxes and they are going to continue to vote for more services for themselves. This is human nature.

Either tax everyone at a reasonable rate or remove their right to vote if they pay no taxes so they don't continue to vote themselves services paid for by those of us carrying all the weight currently.

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True, but remember that one of the key tenets of populism is to give the people something-for-nothing. This happens in both right wing and left wing regimes.

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And remember, this is all theoretical, for informational purposes only. There's zero chance that Trump goes after the unearned income credit, or similar things. A huge percentage of his voters are blue collar workers who don't pay income taxes, or pay "negative taxes." The populist playbook says it's better to identify an enemy to foot those bills (Jews, immigrants, business, rich people, etc.).

How is it possible to get more money back than you paid in?

1939 said:

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How is it possible to get more money back than you paid in?

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Is that rhetorical?

94chem said:

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I specifically looked for adults, and the results said "adults," but as with most AI, it may be faster, but I'm usually smarter. AI search results are at least 50% garbage. So what is the real number?

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No idea. Just saw that 11.1 percent number was from here and is for all people since there are about 330 million people in the US:

Quote:

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In 2023, the official poverty rate fell 0.4 percentage points to 11.1 percent. There were 36.8 million people in poverty in 2023, not statistically different from 2022 (Figure 1 and Table A-1).

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https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2024/demo/p60-283.html