Buckle Up: SB2 - School Vouchers

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10andBOUNCE
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1:15p, 1/25/25
AG
I am interested in knowing the thoughts of others with how this latest voucher bill is written. The Senate Education Committee will hold a public hearing for the proposal on Tuesday.

I think this bill is worse than the last one, leaving too many doors cracked open for big brother to interfere where I don't want them. I would caution everyone to consider the implications of this bill, both immediate practical considerations and well as future issues that could arise. I will continue to do the same as I go through the material myself.

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/89R/billtext/pdf/SB00002I.pdf#navpanes=0

https://www.texastribune.org/2025/01/24/texas-senate-school-choice-vouchers-education-savings-accounts/

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TRADUCTOR
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1:30p, 1/25/25
There is a reason school admins are broke.
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Howdy, it is me!
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1:32p, 1/25/25
AG
This new bill should scare anyone who enjoys the freedoms we already have (which already includes how you educate your children…)

Subsection b of Sec. 29.368 (PROGRAM PARTICIPANT, PROVIDER, AND VENDOR AUTONOMY) states exactly what everyone wants to hear, that there shall be no rules made that limits or imposes requirements on participants, providers, or vendors that are contrary to their religious or institutional values or practices or that limits them from freely determining their methods or curriculum to educate students, determine admissions and enrollment practices, policies, and standards, from freely modifying or refusing to modify practices, operations, conducts, etc. based on religious values, or exercising religious or institutional values as the vendor themselves determine.

This all sounds great and what we would all want and expect EXCEPT FOR subsection c which null and voids all of subsection b and renders it pointless.

Subsection c states that a state agency or state official may adopt a rule that limits and imposes requirements if it is deemed necessary for the furtherance of a compelling government interest.

So if the government deems there is a compelling interest to restrict Christian curriculum in private schools (which includes homeschool) they may do so. If they deem there is a compelling interest that all students, public and private, be vaccinated they may impose this requirement. If they deem it necessary to test all students via STAAR, done.

I have to make the assumption that one of the overarching reasons, if not THE reason, people choose to put their children in private schools or homeschool is to get away from government control of their child's education. Do not let them take control via this bill!

DO NOT GIVE AWAY YOUR RIGHTS! Do not let the government dangle money in front of you in exchange for your freedom.

Furthermore, the chances YOU will be one of the "lucky" recipients is quite small. If too many people apply, there will be a lottery. 80% of the funds will go, by lottery, to children who were enrolled in a public school for at least 90% of the proceeding school year AND members of a low-income household or have a disability. The remaining 20% will go by lottery to everyone not applicable or accepted in the first 80%.

The people who are excited about this government handout (which will never be in your actual hand, by the way) are the same people who get excited when they receive a tax refund in April. Neither are a gift, don't fool yourself.

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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to TRADUCTOR • 1:44p, 1/25/25
AG
TRADUCTOR said:
There is a reason school admins are broke.


Is this a joke? Forgive me if it was, but I thought one of the only points of consensus with the current education system between pro and anti voucher supporters is that too much money went to the admins versus the teachers / kids.
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Logos Stick
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In reply to Howdy, it is me! • 1:46p, 1/25/25
I haven't read the bill, but wouldn't the bill only apply to those institutions that use vouchers?! If so, then we would still have the same rights we have now.

The Dems have control of the House so vouchers are not happening anyway imo.
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Im Gipper
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1:47p, 1/25/25
Where is the guy that said this wasn't a priority?

I'm Gipper
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Captain Pablo
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In reply to Logos Stick • 1:50p, 1/25/25
AG
Logos Stick said:
I haven't read the bill, but wouldn't the bill only apply to those institutions that use vouchers?! If so, then we would still have the same rights we have now.

The Dems have control of the House so vouchers are not happening anyway imo.


I see what you did there but i think something passes the house

Not sure what it will look like
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Howdy, it is me!
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In reply to Logos Stick • 1:52p, 1/25/25
AG
Logos Stick said:
I haven't read the bill, but wouldn't the bill only apply to those institutions that use vouchers?! If so, then we would still have the same rights we have now.

The Dems have control of the House so vouchers are not happening anyway imo.
This sentiment is the one that frustrates me: THIS bill doesn't impact me, so I don't care.

True, THIS bill may not impact you, but it's an open door for further legislation that could. What if you send your child to a school that does decide to accept vouchers; now your child is potentially subjected to any impacts whether you personally receive a voucher or not.
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Logos Stick
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In reply to Howdy, it is me! • 1:58p, 1/25/25
Howdy, it is me! said:
Logos Stick said:
I haven't read the bill, but wouldn't the bill only apply to those institutions that use vouchers?! If so, then we would still have the same rights we have now.

The Dems have control of the House so vouchers are not happening anyway imo.
This sentiment is the one that frustrates me: THIS bill doesn't impact me, so I don't care.

True, THIS bill may not impact you, but it's an open door for further legislation that could. What if you send your child to a school that does decide to accept vouchers; now your child is potentially subjected to any impacts whether you personally receive a voucher or not.


I didn't say I didn't care, just that people will still have the right to send kids to private schools with no control by the state, notwithstanding passage of this legislation.

If I had my way, I'd nuke that portion of the bill.
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Bob Lee
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In reply to Howdy, it is me! • 1:58p, 1/25/25
AG
Howdy, it is me! said:
Logos Stick said:
I haven't read the bill, but wouldn't the bill only apply to those institutions that use vouchers?! If so, then we would still have the same rights we have now.

The Dems have control of the House so vouchers are not happening anyway imo.
This sentiment is the one that frustrates me: THIS bill doesn't impact me, so I don't care.

True, THIS bill may not impact you, but it's an open door for further legislation that could. What if you send your child to a school that does decide to accept vouchers; now your child is potentially subjected to any impacts whether you personally receive a voucher or not.


If a school would trade its Christian identity in order to participate in the program, I wouldn't want my children to be enrolled there anyway.
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UTExan
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2:04p, 1/25/25
I know many people will be concerned about teacher retirement and guaranteed pensions
But think of this: if you invest $5,000 as initial investment into a retirement and investment account and contribute $600/month over 35 years, at 8% ROI, your retirement fund will have $1.288 million. A teacher who receives $2600 a per month pension average at 65 and lives to be 90 would only receive $780,000.
Even at 6% you still get above $850,000.
If your employer puts that money into your retirement account, even better, but even at 50% that's quite a good deal.
https://www.investor.gov/financial-tools-calculators/calculators/compound-interest-calculator

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Raptor
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2:29p, 1/25/25
AG
" Under Friday's proposal, that would mean roughly up to 100,000 students who want to enroll into an accredited private school could participate in the program. Texas public schools currently enroll about 5.5 million children."

This is 1.8% of ALL public school children currently being served. The bill would also likely have teacher raises and an increase to public school funding.


"This session, the Senate wants to increase teacher pay by $4,000. Teachers in rural areas would receive an additional $6,000 pay bump a total of $10,000."

and

"Earlier this week, the House and Senate also proposed allocating $4.85 billion in new funds to the state's public schools"

With the current state of public education, losing 1.8% of students to private school (some who will undoubtedly return to public schools), while raising teacher salaries and increasing funding to public schools is something that I can support.

No one is forcing families of public school students to use the vouchers.

This post is for Cretaceous Level Subscribers only.

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the most cool guy
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2:39p, 1/25/25
So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.
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Howdy, it is me!
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In reply to the most cool guy • 2:55p, 1/25/25
AG
the most cool guy said:
So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.


It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.
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the most cool guy
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In reply to Howdy, it is me! • 2:59p, 1/25/25
Howdy, it is me! said:
the most cool guy said:
So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.


It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.
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Howdy, it is me!
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In reply to the most cool guy • 3:00p, 1/25/25
AG
the most cool guy said:
Howdy, it is me! said:
the most cool guy said:
So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.


It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.


Unless you're one of the lucky lottery winners in the 20%.
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the most cool guy
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In reply to Howdy, it is me! • 3:04p, 1/25/25
Howdy, it is me! said:
the most cool guy said:
Howdy, it is me! said:
the most cool guy said:
So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.


It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.


Unless you're one of the lucky lottery winners in the 20%.

What a ****ing joke.

"We're going to give you back some of your money we stole through our criminal property tax system so you can choose where your kids go to school. But only for 1.8% of you, and only if you don't make too much money, and only if you win a lottery." Complete ****ing joke.

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MarleyFeed97
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In reply to Logos Stick • 3:11p, 1/25/25
Bob Lee
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In reply to the most cool guy • 3:17p, 1/25/25
AG
the most cool guy said:
Howdy, it is me! said:
the most cool guy said:
Howdy, it is me! said:
the most cool guy said:
So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.


It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.


Unless you're one of the lucky lottery winners in the 20%.

What a ****ing joke.

"We're going to give you back some of your money we stole through our criminal property tax system so you can choose where your kids go to school. But only for 1.8% of you, and only if you don't make too much money, and only if you win a lottery." Complete ****ing joke.



the threshold for low income is set at 500% of the federal poverty level. But with that, your child must have been enrolled in a public school for 90% of the previous school year. So yeah, this probably does nothing for you unless public school families aren't clamoring to participate, and I'm not convinced they will.

I do think families who currently send their children to private schools ought to be able to enjoy the benefits of whatever voucher programs we end up with.
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Dad-O-Lot
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3:21p, 1/25/25
AG
In principle, I'm a fan of at least some portion of the money following the student.

That said, as a homeschooling parent, I would not (and will not) make any attempt to get any of it for homeschooling my children.

I prefer that our school system not even know my children exist.
People of integrity expect to be believed, when they're not, they let time prove them right.
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rgag12
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3:27p, 1/25/25
AG
Must be a good bill. Nobody is happy
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aezmvp
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3:29p, 1/25/25
Yeah I've read the bill and it's pretty disappointing. Need to make some more notes before I go to my rep with it.
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Tom Fox
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In reply to the most cool guy • 3:34p, 1/25/25
the most cool guy said:
Howdy, it is me! said:
the most cool guy said:
Howdy, it is me! said:
the most cool guy said:
So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.


It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.


Unless you're one of the lucky lottery winners in the 20%.

What a ****ing joke.

"We're going to give you back some of your money we stole through our criminal property tax system so you can choose where your kids go to school. But only for 1.8% of you, and only if you don't make too much money, and only if you win a lottery." Complete ****ing joke.



As I have said for the past couple of years, this is nothing more than a new entitlement.

Now we get the privilege of competing against our own tax dollars.
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Martin Cash
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In reply to the most cool guy • 3:38p, 1/25/25
AG
the most cool guy said:



What a ****ing joke.

"We're going to give you back some of your money we stole through our criminal property tax system so you can choose where your kids go to school. But only for 1.8% of you, and only if you don't make too much money, and only if you win a lottery." Complete ****ing joke.

You may dislike the property tax system, but it is the law. To call it criminal is idiotic and honestly? Childish.
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Howdy, it is me!
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In reply to aezmvp • 3:40p, 1/25/25
AG
aezmvp said:
Yeah I've read the bill and it's pretty disappointing. Need to make some more notes before I go to my rep with it.


I've made a good start for you at the top of this thread
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the most cool guy
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In reply to Martin Cash • 3:56p, 1/25/25
Martin Cash said:
the most cool guy said:



What a ****ing joke.

"We're going to give you back some of your money we stole through our criminal property tax system so you can choose where your kids go to school. But only for 1.8% of you, and only if you don't make too much money, and only if you win a lottery." Complete ****ing joke.

You may dislike the property tax system, but it is the law. To call it criminal is idiotic and honestly? Childish.

Boo hoo. It's a figure of speech. Of course it's not technically criminal. What's idiotic and childish is the property tax system. "Sure, you can 'own' property. But you have to pay us money that we get to arbitrarily charge you every year, and we'll take your property if you don't pay." That is what's ****ing idiotic.
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Howdy, it is me!
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8:58p, 1/25/25
AG
Everyone is so focused on watching and talking about Trump (and rightly so!) I'm concerned Texas Congress is going to slip this one through without much public fuss, taking advantage of the distraction.
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tylercsbn9
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In reply to the most cool guy • 9:39p, 1/25/25
AG
the most cool guy said:
Howdy, it is me! said:
the most cool guy said:
So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.


It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.


Low income people heavily rely on the bus to get their kids to school. If they go private they won't have that option. I don't see many low income people utilizing it

I'm shocked if they're tying income to this. 99% of the people that generally have used vouchers in other states were already private. It's just a way to siphon money to campaign donors.
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DD88
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10:09p, 1/25/25
AG
For all those who are so paranoid about "strings attached", DON't PARTICIPATE.

No one is forcing you to accept a voucher.

Let other students benefit by parents choosing the best option for their children's education.
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Howdy, it is me!
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In reply to DD88 • 10:11p, 1/25/25
AG
DD88 said:
For all those who are so paranoid about "strings attached", DON't PARTICIPATE.

No one is forcing you to accept a voucher.

Let other students benefit by parents choosing the best option for their children's education.


When some people give up their freedoms it's just a matter of time before more, if not all, are forced to do the same. This door should not be opened.
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DD88
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In reply to Howdy, it is me! • 10:25p, 1/25/25
AG
Close to 30 states now have some form of school choice.

Show us where anyone is forced to give up their "freedoms".
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Howdy, it is me!
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In reply to DD88 • 11:55p, 1/25/25
AG
DD88 said:
Close to 30 states now have some form of school choice.

Show us where anyone is forced to give up their "freedoms".


I'm not familiar with the language in the other states' bills, but I do know the language in our proposed bill and I don't see how it could sit well with anyone.
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aezmvp
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11:58p, 1/25/25
I have one kid in private and two in public. I work with the private school and the initial indication for us is no way, no how on this bill.

To be honest it's an insult.

Edit: This is the Texas Dems wet dream of a school choice bill btw. No decent school will accept these vouchers. So you'll get nothing but fly-by-night and low end private schools accepting these and then they'll point and say "See we told you this wouldn't work." And the rurals will go back to their Friday night football lifestyle in the safe knowledge that no one will threaten it. Especially the biggest church in town.
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Howdy, it is me!
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In reply to aezmvp • 8:34a, 1/26/25
AG
aezmvp said:
I have one kid in private and two in public. I work with the private school and the initial indication for us is no way, no how on this bill.

To be honest it's an insult.

Edit: This is the Texas Dems wet dream of a school choice bill btw. No decent school will accept these vouchers. So you'll get nothing but fly-by-night and low end private schools accepting these and then they'll point and say "See we told you this wouldn't work." And the rurals will go back to their Friday night football lifestyle in the safe knowledge that no one will threaten it. Especially the biggest church in town.


Glad to hear a private school against this; hope they make themselves heard.
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Tom Fox
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In reply to DD88 • 9:54a, 1/26/25
DD88 said:
Close to 30 states now have some form of school choice.

Show us where anyone is forced to give up their "freedoms".
I want to stop being forced to give up my freedom from paying for other people's individual family expenses.

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