The American Worker is Becoming More Productive

4,862 Views | 47 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Ag with kids
BassCowboy33
How long do you want to ignore this user?
This is a fascinating piece that touches on everything from AI to immigration, and how businesses are dealing with the biggest tech change since the PC was invented.

The American worker is getting more done. That's great for the economy, not always for workers.

Quote:

Take Vic Viktorov, a gym owner who increased revenue at his Boston business in 2024 by 30% without adding a single salesperson to the two already on staff. Instead, he has been using an artificial-intelligence model loaded with company documents, sales materials and other information. Now, he can complete in just minutes work that used to take hours, such as writing marketing plans, email drafts and social-media posts.

"It allows us to be lean, nimble and fast," said Viktorov.
^^^I've heard very similar reports from law firms and computer engineers. What would take hours, days, or weeks, now takes minutes with the advent of AI.
Quote:

Productivitythe total output of the economy divided by hours workedrose 2% in the third quarter compared with a year earlier, according to the Labor Department. That marked the fifth quarter in a row with an increase of 2% or better. In the five years before the pandemic, there were only two such quarters.
Quote:

Another big change in the American labor forcea massive influx of immigrationmight also have played a role. Immigrants are often slotted into manual-intensive jobs, which could allow other workers to move up to more highly skilled jobs.
Quote:

Of course, increased productivity isn't always good news for workers: One way that companies get more productive is by laying off employees. New technologies such as AI can create new jobs and make workers more efficientor take their jobs.
Quote:

The recent dockworkers strike was fueled in part by port employers' desire to expand the use of automated machinery on docks. President-elect Donald Trump threw his support behind the dockworkers, saying in December that automation threatened jobs.
^^^But there is always a political angle.
Quote:

America's scope for expanding its labor force is limited: The population is increasing slowly, the baby-boom generation is retiring, and Trump has promised to heavily restrict immigration and deport millions of immigrant workers who are already in the U.S. Stronger productivity would help bolster the economy and support an aging population.
Quote:

First, when there are new opportunities for innovation, as with cars a hundred years ago or computers in the 1980s and 1990s, new businesses proliferate. Second, new businesses are quicker to adopt new technologies. That can allow them to hire fewer workers to get things done.

"They're more likely to do radical things," Haltiwanger said. "They don't have anything to lose, so to speak."
^^^It's gonna be super exciting to see where we are in 10 years whenAI really hits the ground running.
Quote:

"If I can save an hour, two hours a day by speeding up these tasks, it makes me much more efficient," said Viktorov, whose gym is a Boston-area franchise of Tennessee-based D1 Training.
Quote:

It takes time, though, for a successful technology to be used widely enough and effectively enough for it to show up. So while ChatGPT and other GenAI tools are garnering lots of attention, and some businesses are using them, they are probably too new to move the needle on productivity across the economy yet, said Harvard University economist David Deming.
Quote:

Raj Karanam took over Architectural Surfaces, which distributes stone and other materials for homes, five months ago. In that short time, he has reduced product shortages 95%, largely by using advanced analytics and AI to manage inventory.
...
In the past, he said, a showroom in Denver might need a slab of quartzite that is in stock in Austin, Texas. Dozens of emails would go back and forth to approve and initiate a transfer. Now, he said, all of that happens automatically.

Funky Winkerbean
How long do you want to ignore this user?
This is not going to end well.
BassCowboy33
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Funky Winkerbean said:

This is not going to end well.
Skynet?
techno-ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AI is good at some things like distilling or rewrapping information in different ways. But it still lags at true creativity. It can't write a novel or create an hour and a half long movie with lovable characters and a cohesive plot, for instance. It can be used to help create one but you still need a human creator behind the steering wheel.
Trump will fix it.
Phatbob
How long do you want to ignore this user?
People have been freaking out about technology putting people out of work since the wheel was invented. It's just tools that help people do more with less. It's a good thing. People will always have something to do, and technology will just improve everyone's standard of living. The end.
MouthBQ98
How long do you want to ignore this user?
It makes finding and organizing information easier and less menial and lets you analyze information faster with the criterion you give it, IF you limit the data set to data that is already fairly clean and structural. If your data set contains garbage, you risk GIGO even with AI so you have to check its work still.

A simple example is a Google search with its AI summary. It is using a wide open data set of much of the public Internet which of course is loaded with garbage and conflicting data. It is very fast at coming up with the concensus data from sources through who knows how it weights them for veracity and relevance.

It generally gives a good summary of source material. There are times when I have asked it something detailed or specific about which I have a great amount of knowledge and I can tell what sources it has gone to on the Internet with the most views or cross references for its own answer, and while it is seldom very wrong, it sometimes gets important detail wrong or omits important information in my view. It is therefore very useful but still not completely trustworthy and must be validated.

It also uses many poor writers for verbal source material and so it's language modeling can reflect those linguistic quirks it most often encounters.

Logos Stick
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Don't use Google, use GROK.
ts5641
How long do you want to ignore this user?
techno-ag said:

AI is good at some things like distilling or rewrapping information in different ways. But it still lags at true creativity. It can't write a novel or create an hour and a half long movie with lovable characters and a cohesive plot, for instance. It can be used to help create one but you still need a human creator behind the steering wheel.
I think it's done some of this and not far off from others.
BassCowboy33
How long do you want to ignore this user?
techno-ag said:

AI is good at some things like distilling or rewrapping information in different ways. But it still lags at true creativity. It can't write a novel or create an hour and a half long movie with lovable characters and a cohesive plot, for instance. It can be used to help create one but you still need a human creator behind the steering wheel.
Yep. I think that's what the doomsayers don't truly understand. It's all about making human beings more efficient, ala the computer. I had an AI expert explain to me that AI is at the same point that computers were in the 50s. We're just beginning to tap its potential.
ts5641
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Logos Stick said:

Don't use Google, use GROK.
This. Try a few controversial/political questions with each and see what you get.
MouthBQ98
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I am not making political inquires. Usually it is a technical question about how to complete a repair or what part it needed for a project I am working on or something about a specific science or history topic. I can try GROk sometimes but generally I'm just doing a search and noting the AI summary results before I sift through the results myself manually. I always check the linked sources.
DallasAg 94
How long do you want to ignore this user?
GE
How long do you want to ignore this user?
techno-ag said:

AI is good at some things like distilling or rewrapping information in different ways. But it still lags at true creativity. It can't write a novel or create an hour and a half long movie with lovable characters and a cohesive plot, for instance. It can be used to help create one but you still need a human creator behind the steering wheel.
Most of the LLMs that people are using are ones where they have to be prompted by people and based on the prompts will create an output. But to see some indicator of what they can do on the "creativity" dimension, just go tell it to write a song about a subject similar to an existing song that you name. It's impressive.

Right now there are some size constraints to model output but I imagine if that weren't the case it could write a novel as good or better than many of them you can find at a bookstore.
chilimuybueno
How long do you want to ignore this user?
We have tried to apply AI wherever we can in our business. It struggles with some basic things like understanding and using information in spreadsheets and any sort of complex math. A long way to go to be really useful for something more than searches, writing basic documents and organizing simple data.

The user must be careful to craft a really comprehensive yet simple query to get good results for projects that are even slightly complex.

I ran a basic query this morning in GPT and it delivered contradictory results to its own findings in the same exercise.
Principal Uncertainty
How long do you want to ignore this user?
techno-ag said:

AI is good at some things like distilling or rewrapping information in different ways. But it still lags at true creativity. It can't write a novel or create an hour and a half long movie with lovable characters and a cohesive plot, for instance. It can be used to help create one but you still need a human creator behind the steering wheel.
Wait. So, a traditional movie takes years and a hundred paid people with a budget in the 10's of millions, but now a similar movie can be made by just one guy typing a story-line into AI and reiterating it over a period of just weeks. And this is your example of something AI is NOT good at? WTF? This is the EXACT thing AI is VERY GOOD at compared to the traditional model. This is one of the key areas where AI is poised to completely wipe out the traditional model.
Ags4DaWin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
ts5641 said:

techno-ag said:

AI is good at some things like distilling or rewrapping information in different ways. But it still lags at true creativity. It can't write a novel or create an hour and a half long movie with lovable characters and a cohesive plot, for instance. It can be used to help create one but you still need a human creator behind the steering wheel.
I think it's done some of this and not far off from others.


Not really.

The AI depends on copying IP that is already out there.

In human creativity we take IP that is already out there, use it as inspiration and change it to fit our own worldview. Before developing it into our own artistic vision.

In alot of the AI copyright cases as the algorithms are being exposed it becomes more and more clear that AI simply copies what is already in existence and so there is no true inspiration or creativity.

That is going to create ALOT of copyright issues with anyone who works in the intellectual property realm and who uses AI to assist in creative art.
techno-ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Principal Uncertainty said:

techno-ag said:

AI is good at some things like distilling or rewrapping information in different ways. But it still lags at true creativity. It can't write a novel or create an hour and a half long movie with lovable characters and a cohesive plot, for instance. It can be used to help create one but you still need a human creator behind the steering wheel.
Wait. So, a traditional movie takes years and a hundred paid people with a budget in the 10's of millions, but now a similar movie can be made by just one guy typing a story-line into AI and reiterating it over a period of just weeks. And this is your example of something AI is NOT good at? WTF? This is the EXACT thing AI is VERY GOOD at compared to the traditional model. This is one of the key areas where AI is poised to completely wipe out the traditional model.
Reread what I wrote.
Trump will fix it.
96AgGrad
How long do you want to ignore this user?
techno-ag said:

AI is good at some things like distilling or rewrapping information in different ways. But it still lags at true creativity. It can't write a novel or create an hour and a half long movie with lovable characters and a cohesive plot, for instance. It can be used to help create one but you still need a human creator behind the steering wheel.
Most people aren't employed at jobs that require creativity. Maybe AI would change that.
techno-ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
GE said:

techno-ag said:

AI is good at some things like distilling or rewrapping information in different ways. But it still lags at true creativity. It can't write a novel or create an hour and a half long movie with lovable characters and a cohesive plot, for instance. It can be used to help create one but you still need a human creator behind the steering wheel.
Most of the LLMs that people are using are ones where they have to be prompted by people and based on the prompts will create an output. But to see some indicator of what they can do on the "creativity" dimension, just go tell it to write a song about a subject similar to an existing song that you name. It's impressive.

Right now there are some size constraints to model output but I imagine if that weren't the case it could write a novel as good or better than many of them you can find at a bookstore.
Songs are not a good measuring stick. The tune is essentially a mathematical algorithm repeated a few times for the length of the song. The lyrics are a poem generated by the LLM. I agree it's impressive and I've heard some good ones. But it's not the same as a regular length movie or novel.
Trump will fix it.
TexAgs91
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Just wait until the humanoid robot revolution starts
Cinco Ranch Aggie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I am a software engineer. My company is spearheading a lot of development in the AI realm. ChatGPT and other such tools are just that, tools, nothing more.

Yes, if I put in a prompt that would request a segment of code to do a task, it will generate the requested code. And it might very well be exactly what I need. But at the same time, it might not be. I have to evaluate each line it generates, as I've found that it doesn't always understand what I have asked for. I'm still the creator in this scenario, and it is up to me to validate the code that such tools generate.
BTKAG97
How long do you want to ignore this user?

Quote:

Immigrants are often slotted into manual-intensive jobs, which could allow other workers to move up to more highly skilled jobs.
So that's all it takes to get a promotion, lose your job to someone who will do it for less?
lb3
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

I am a software engineer. My company is spearheading a lot of development in the AI realm. ChatGPT and other such tools are just that, tools, nothing more.

Yes, if I put in a prompt that would request a segment of code to do a task, it will generate the requested code. And it might very well be exactly what I need. But at the same time, it might not be. I have to evaluate each line it generates, as I've found that it doesn't always understand what I have asked for. I'm still the creator in this scenario, and it is up to me to validate the code that such tools generate.
I'm no code monkey but I find the programming potential of LLMs fascinating. I asked one to write a hangman game (minus the gui) early after ChatGPT first made headlines. For a kid in a programming class, it's a homework assignment and for an experienced programmer this might take a few minutes so it's not a particularly advanced skill to demonstrate but it blew my mind at the time. I was also impressed when I fed it some firmware source code and asked it to insert comments into the code.

I've had professional programmers tell me that once you get some experience, most of your time is spent doing google searches of GitHub. I imagine AI is just a replacement for copy & past since the Google search queries probably aren't much slower than writing detailed AI prompts. And as you noted, you still have to scrutinize each line and match variable naming schemes, etc…

I think the low hanging fruit will be the freelance html developers who create super simple Wordpress webpages for small businesses. Right now they're probably thinking they've found a cheat code but will soon find that market nitche obliterated.

But it will also significantly expand the market the freelancers serve by allowing them to create custom webpages and apps that had too small of a user base to be cost effective previously.

For example, I'm noodling on how my broke non-profit could create an app that will allow the surviving family of murder victims find public resources in their area and track felons through the criminal justice system. The target audience in Texas is only a few hundred people per year so there is nobody serving this market effectively.

DeLaHonta
How long do you want to ignore this user?
We use ChatGPT daily at my company, and, while it is very useful in certain situations, people definitely assume its currently capabilities are greater than they are.

It's not infrequent for it to just pull up completely fabricated or blatantly incorrect information that people assume is accurate. It's also very obvious to me (not always, but sometimes), when I receive an email or memo that was mostly written by ChatGPT, because it just doesn't sound like a human wrote it.

In its current form, LLMs are great tools to get things started, create framework, etc, but it still requires significant oversight, review, and editing in many situations.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Quote:

I've had professional programmers tell me that once you get some experience, most of your time is spent doing google searches of GitHub. I imagine AI is just a replacement for copy & past since the Google search queries probably aren't much slower than writing detailed AI prompts.
I believe I intended to write something like this. AI is just another tool in a software engineer's toolbox, much like we've been doing web searches for potential answers to what we're working on, or going back even further, before Al Gore invented the internet, to the library of books that we tended to collect. The books were typically a terrible reference in that one would rarely find a solution in them, given the advances in the software (be it C#, Delphi, VB, or what-have-you) by the time the book was published. The internet searches were much better, but still fraught with error or wild-goose-chase scenarios. In my observation, AI is a bit faster than the standard web searches, but not if you enter a crappy prompt.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
DeLaHonta said:

We use ChatGPT daily at my company, and, while it is very useful in certain situations, people definitely assume its currently capabilities are greater than they are.

It's not infrequent for it to just pull up completely fabricated or blatantly incorrect information that people assume is accurate. It's also very obvious to me (not always, but sometimes), when I receive an email or memo that was mostly written by ChatGPT, because it just doesn't sound like a human wrote it.

In its current form, LLMs are great tools to get things started, create framework, etc, but it still requires significant oversight, review, and editing in many situations.
I'm not sure if this is the accepted terminology, but I've seen that referred to as "hallucination".
Logos Stick
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I use generative AI to grammar and syntax check technical KB articles. Saves me lots of time.
titan
How long do you want to ignore this user?
techno-ag said:

AI is good at some things like distilling or rewrapping information in different ways. But it still lags at true creativity. It can't write a novel or create an hour and a half long movie with lovable characters and a cohesive plot, for instance. It can be used to help create one but you still need a human creator behind the steering wheel.
Something else it doesn't yet show. Is the ability to be discern between its sources which is the one it should use as the benchmark and which is the outlier. A few tests showed this.
Lathspell
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I use AI to parse through pages of information to give me bullet points and such for emails and presentations. I also use LLMs like ChatGPT to draft emails. I don't use exactly what it gives me, but using it to create the skeleton of the email that I then edit as needed can literally save me an hour a day of work.
infinity ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I have asked ChatGPT questions on sports like baseball, tennis etc and it many times it confidently gives me answers which seem right. Except that those scorecards never happened and were totally fabricated.

However, it is great for Excel formula generation for weird tasks that I use for my investing. I would take days to come up with the same, this does it in a nice way.
titan
How long do you want to ignore this user?

Quote:

I have asked ChatGPT questions on sports like baseball, tennis etc and it many times it confidently gives me answers which seem right. Except that those scorecards never happened and were totally fabricated.
That's what mean by it can't weight or discern accuracy...yet. It just goes by what it finds or even preponderance.
Logos Stick
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I would encourage conservatives to switch to Grok instead of chatgpt.

Elon is trying to do it right.
Ag with kids
How long do you want to ignore this user?
MouthBQ98 said:

I am not making political inquires. Usually it is a technical question about how to complete a repair or what part it needed for a project I am working on or something about a specific science or history topic. I can try GROk sometimes but generally I'm just doing a search and noting the AI summary results before I sift through the results myself manually. I always check the linked sources.
Be careful and double check the answers...

I gave it a prompt about finding some documents on a specific subject.

It gave me a bunch of them

One problem, though...a bunch of them did not exist at all, even though it gave me a specific document number and title.

Here's an example of what chatgpt gave me:

Quote:

Standards Development
  • ASTM International Standards:
    • ASTM F3266-20: "Standard Guide for Training and Simulation of Small Unmanned Aircraft Systems (sUAS)" - Provides guidance on training using simulators, including requirements for performance, fidelity, and instructional content.
    • ASTM F3269-20: "Standard Practice for Evaluation of sUAS Simulators" - Outlines methods for assessing simulator fidelity and effectiveness.



Now...go look up both of those documents.
Ag with kids
How long do you want to ignore this user?
lb3 said:

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

I am a software engineer. My company is spearheading a lot of development in the AI realm. ChatGPT and other such tools are just that, tools, nothing more.

Yes, if I put in a prompt that would request a segment of code to do a task, it will generate the requested code. And it might very well be exactly what I need. But at the same time, it might not be. I have to evaluate each line it generates, as I've found that it doesn't always understand what I have asked for. I'm still the creator in this scenario, and it is up to me to validate the code that such tools generate.
I'm no code monkey but I find the programming potential of LLMs fascinating. I asked one to write a hangman game (minus the gui) early after ChatGPT first made headlines. For a kid in a programming class, it's a homework assignment and for an experienced programmer this might take a few minutes so it's not a particularly advanced skill to demonstrate but it blew my mind at the time. I was also impressed when I fed it some firmware source code and asked it to insert comments into the code.

I've had professional programmers tell me that once you get some experience, most of your time is spent doing google searches of GitHub. I imagine AI is just a replacement for copy & past since the Google search queries probably aren't much slower than writing detailed AI prompts. And as you noted, you still have to scrutinize each line and match variable naming schemes, etc…

I think the low hanging fruit will be the freelance html developers who create super simple Wordpress webpages for small businesses. Right now they're probably thinking they've found a cheat code but will soon find that market nitche obliterated.

But it will also significantly expand the market the freelancers serve by allowing them to create custom webpages and apps that had too small of a user base to be cost effective previously.

For example, I'm noodling on how my broke non-profit could create an app that will allow the surviving family of murder victims find public resources in their area and track felons through the criminal justice system. The target audience in Texas is only a few hundred people per year so there is nobody serving this market effectively.


Stack Overflow...
lb3
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Your right. I'm no code monkey and haven't written any notable scripts since 2016 when my excel VBA script that archives TexAgs history made the admins introduce captcha on frequent edits.
Page 1 of 2
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.