Not fair, but good for society as long as those students are majoring in something useful.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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Not fair, but good for society as long as those students are majoring in something useful.

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Is there an award for those contributing to a gooder society?

Martin Q. Blank said:

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Not fair, but good for society as long as those students are majoring in something useful.

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"Women's Studies"?
"Black Studies"?
"History or art"?

BigRobSA said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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... the system provides need based aids to over 70% of the students.

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Messed up to give the needy AIDS.

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Touche'

Legit question:
What criteria are used to determine a college student's need for financial aid?


As soon as those criteria include parent's financial wellbeing, the system is flawed.

Why should the student's parents' financials have anything to do with it?

College offers education for ADULTS and as adults, they are ultimately responsible much like their own medical bills.

I'm not saying parent shouldn't help their adult children if they wish to, I'm saying government or other financial aid tying other adult financial status to an applicant's "need", makes no sense, except in case where a co-signer is involved.

Tuition shouldn't be any different than a young adult trying to buy a car, home, etc.

If parents wish to co-sign, then fine as long as it's their choice.

Catag94 said:

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Legit question:
What criteria are used to determine a college student's need for financial aid?


As soon as those criteria include parent's financial wellbeing, the system is flawed.

Why should the student's parents' financials have anything to do with it?

College offers education for ADULTS and as adults, they are ultimately responsible much like their own medical bills.

I'm not saying parent shouldn't help their adult children if they wish to, I'm saying government or other financial aid tying other adult financial status to an applicant's "need", makes no sense, except in case where a co-signer is involved.

Tuition shouldn't be any different than a young adult trying to buy a car, home, etc.

If parents wish to co-sign, then fine as long as it's their choice.

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Strictly based on parents income tax returns. If and when this becomes unlawful, they will have other means. University of CA is always a step ahead.

Don't get me wrong, in state tuition and UC and Cal State are economical.

Like healthcare

Like healthcare

Scholarships should be based solely on merit as judged by standardized test scores and grades.

Who's the smartest and who works the hardest is the right formula for our capitalist country to produce the best results.

And I agree that STEM majors should get the scholarships and crap majors should be paid for 100% by the student.

pfo said:

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Scholarships should be based solely on merit as judged by standardized test scores and grades.

Who's the smartest and who works the hardest is the right formula for our capitalist country to produce the best results.

And I agree that STEM majors should get the scholarships and crap majors should be paid for 100% by the student.

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I like the way you think

More government money pumped into universities will result in universities spending more money, and increasing costs.

The same is true for making available loans for kids going into college.

There is a fix to this issue and it only involves two policy decisions.

1) Get the federal government out of the loan and grant business (i.e. no aid)
2) Eliminate all preferential admissions policies

Higher education has regressed terribly. College use to be a place where the best students got an excellent education whose foundation was based on critical thinking.

Now, we have students with no business being in college getting useless degrees, being indoctrinated in liberal ideology, and taking on debt they will neve be able to repay.

Catag94 said:

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As soon as those criteria include parent's financial wellbeing, the system is flawed.

Why should the student's parents' financials have anything to do with it?

College offers education for ADULTS and as adults, they are ultimately responsible much like their own medical bills.

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Totally agree. Parents don't have any responsibility for their adult children's education.

I chose to pay for my kids college, but that was 100% a choice, not an obligation.

Fun Fact: Illegal Aliens are eligible for in-state tuition in Texas.

If companies didn't require a degree to hire low level analysts that would also start to help as well.

The college system is designed to funnel people into the big corporation system. It isn't meant to educate or liberate people.

The Healthcare system is designed to funnel people into the big corporation system.

Notice the trend.

30%+ of kids going to college now should not be going regardless of how it's funded.

Don't put your kids on tax return as dependents and level the playing field down where the illegals play.

I thought you guys liked capitalism. It's dynamic pricing. Just like pretty much everything else these days it's an algorithm meant to extract the most cash from customers.

Just be happy that you are in a position to keep your kids from starting adult life with 300k in loans

If your kid isn't smart enough to get scholarships, you can either pay, or he can take out debt, or he can be a plumber.

Not sure why tax dollars should be used for any of this

TRADUCTOR said:

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Don't put your kids on tax return as dependents and level the playing field down where the illegals play.

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They're a few steps ahead.

Quote:

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To become an independent student in California, you need to demonstrate financial self-sufficiency by meeting specific criteria on the FAFSA application, which generally includes being at least 24 years old, married, a veteran, or having dependents of your own; you also need to establish residency in California by physically living there for a substantial period, registering to vote, obtaining a California driver's license, and filing California tax returns.

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itsyourboypookie said:

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If your kid isn't smart enough to get scholarships, you can either pay, or he can take out debt, or he can be a plumber.

Not sure why tax dollars should be used for any of this

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Agree.

Yet, 0.1% of the students at ucla receive academic scholarship I believe, and most aren't full scholly.

amercer said:

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I thought you guys liked capitalism. It's dynamic pricing. Just like pretty much everything else these days it's an algorithm meant to extract the most cash from customers.

Just be happy that you are in a position to keep your kids from starting adult life with 300k in loans

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What dynamic pricing allows you to pay less based on income except Medicaid/Medicare program and some employer sponsored benefits?

infinity ag said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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Not fair, but good for society as long as those students are majoring in something useful.

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"Women's Studies"?
"Black Studies"?
"History or art"?

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None of those including the last are directly useful. An argument can be made that they should not be subsidized. You could say subsidizing should go toward making one capable of then generating their own tuition pay-offs, so asking those who are having to pay all like the OP, any should go to useful, rather than aesthetic fields.

Gonna encourage my kids to graduate early and get an hourly trade job with a reasonable income 15k a year...take them off my tax returns as dependents and let them file for FAFSA on their own.

ChemEng94 said:

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There is a fix to this issue and it only involves two policy decisions.

1) Get the federal government out of the loan and grant business (i.e. no aid)
2) Eliminate all preferential admissions policies

Higher education has regressed terribly. College use to be a place where the best students got an excellent education whose foundation was based on critical thinking.

Now, we have students with no business being in college getting useless degrees, being indoctrinated in liberal ideology, and taking on debt they will neve be able to repay.

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We probably shouldn't have created a society where employers believe a college education is necessary to succeed, and then told kids the only way to be successful is to have a college education.

Average Joe said:

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ChemEng94 said:

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There is a fix to this issue and it only involves two policy decisions.

1) Get the federal government out of the loan and grant business (i.e. no aid)
2) Eliminate all preferential admissions policies

Higher education has regressed terribly. College use to be a place where the best students got an excellent education whose foundation was based on critical thinking.

Now, we have students with no business being in college getting useless degrees, being indoctrinated in liberal ideology, and taking on debt they will neve be able to repay.

---

We probably shouldn't have created a society where employers believe a college education is necessary to succeed, and then told kids the only way to be successful is to have a college education.

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That approach always was, and remains, vastly inferior to an apprentice system for business and society both.

Average Joe said:

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ChemEng94 said:

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There is a fix to this issue and it only involves two policy decisions.

1) Get the federal government out of the loan and grant business (i.e. no aid)
2) Eliminate all preferential admissions policies

Higher education has regressed terribly. College use to be a place where the best students got an excellent education whose foundation was based on critical thinking.

Now, we have students with no business being in college getting useless degrees, being indoctrinated in liberal ideology, and taking on debt they will neve be able to repay.

---

We probably shouldn't have created a society where employers believe a college education is necessary to succeed, and then told kids the only way to be successful is to have a college education.

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We didn't create this. Big business did.

titan said:

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Average Joe said:

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ChemEng94 said:

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There is a fix to this issue and it only involves two policy decisions.

1) Get the federal government out of the loan and grant business (i.e. no aid)
2) Eliminate all preferential admissions policies

Higher education has regressed terribly. College use to be a place where the best students got an excellent education whose foundation was based on critical thinking.

Now, we have students with no business being in college getting useless degrees, being indoctrinated in liberal ideology, and taking on debt they will neve be able to repay.

---

We probably shouldn't have created a society where employers believe a college education is necessary to succeed, and then told kids the only way to be successful is to have a college education.

---

That approach always was, and remains, vastly inferior to an apprentice system for business and society both.

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I think closest this comes to in academia is the study of Medicine. Once in Medical school, students receive 2 years of didactic then go into apprentice system through clinical internship, residency, and fellowship.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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titan said:

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Average Joe said:

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ChemEng94 said:

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There is a fix to this issue and it only involves two policy decisions.

1) Get the federal government out of the loan and grant business (i.e. no aid)
2) Eliminate all preferential admissions policies

Higher education has regressed terribly. College use to be a place where the best students got an excellent education whose foundation was based on critical thinking.

Now, we have students with no business being in college getting useless degrees, being indoctrinated in liberal ideology, and taking on debt they will neve be able to repay.

---

We probably shouldn't have created a society where employers believe a college education is necessary to succeed, and then told kids the only way to be successful is to have a college education.

---

That approach always was, and remains, vastly inferior to an apprentice system for business and society both.

---

I think closest this comes to in academia is the study of Medicine. Once in Medical school, students receive 2 years of didactic then go into apprentice system through clinical internship, residency, and fellowship.

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Yes, exactly. You are right. Geology is another, or used to be that way.

titan said:

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infinity ag said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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Not fair, but good for society as long as those students are majoring in something useful.

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"Women's Studies"?
"Black Studies"?
"History or art"?

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None of those including the last are directly useful. An argument can be made that they should not be subsidized. You could say subsidizing should go toward making one capable of then generating their own tuition pay-offs, so asking those who are having to pay all like the OP, any should go to useful, rather than aesthetic fields.

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People are free to do majors like this if they have the interest, but not expect others to pay for them. These are hobby majors. I also like to study history but I know it does not pay the bills. If I want to do a PhD in ancient Greece, it should be on my own dime.

Average Joe said:

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ChemEng94 said:

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There is a fix to this issue and it only involves two policy decisions.

1) Get the federal government out of the loan and grant business (i.e. no aid)
2) Eliminate all preferential admissions policies

Higher education has regressed terribly. College use to be a place where the best students got an excellent education whose foundation was based on critical thinking.

Now, we have students with no business being in college getting useless degrees, being indoctrinated in liberal ideology, and taking on debt they will neve be able to repay.

---

We probably shouldn't have created a society where employers believe a college education is necessary to succeed, and then told kids the only way to be successful is to have a college education.

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The problem is our solution to any economic difficulty is "import people from abroad! They are cheaper!". This makes society poor and CEOs rich. Yes, investors get rich but main street America gets decimated. Look around and you will see this.

I am in the high tech world, this is what those clowns have done for 25 years. Driven Americans out of work and into menial low paying jobs and paid Indians and Chinese to do the work and they sent the money overseas.

Isn't there anything called investing in one's community? It is everyone's job. We cannot all be selfish and expect our community to survive.