Is it just too large by housing so many different and varied missions?

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The Department of Homeland Security has a vital mission: to secure the nation from the many threats we face. This requires the hard work of more than 260,000 employees in jobs that range from aviation and border security to emergency response, from cybersecurity analyst to chemical facility inspector. Our duties are wide-ranging, and our goal is clear - keeping America safe.

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The Department of Homeland Security was established in 2002, combining 22 different federal departments and agencies into a unified, integrated Cabinet agency.

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A six-point agenda for the Department of Homeland Security was developed and announced in July 2005, by Secretary Chertoff to ensure that the Department's policies, operations, and structures are aligned in the best way to address the potential threats both present and future that face our nation. The six-point agenda is structured to guide the department in the near term and result in changes that will:
[ol]

Increase overall preparedness, particularly for catastrophic events

Create better transportation security systems to move people and cargo more securely and efficiently

Strengthen border security and interior enforcement and reform immigration processes;

Enhance information sharing with our partners

Improve DHS financial management, human resource development, procurement and information technology

Realign the DHS organization to maximize mission performance.

[/ol]

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• mprove National Response and Recovery Efforts by Focusing FEMA on Its Core Functions. FEMA reports directly to the Secretary of Homeland Security. In order to strengthen and enhance our Nation's ability to respond to and recover from manmade or natural disasters, FEMA will focus on its historic and vital mission of response and recovery.
• Integrate Federal Air Marshal Service (FAMS) into Broader Aviation Security Efforts. The Federal Air Marshal Service was moved from the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) bureau to the Transportation Security Administration to increase operational coordination and strengthen efforts to meet this common goal of aviation security.
• Merge Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs. This new Office of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs merged certain functions among the Office of Legislative Affairs and the Office of State and Local Government Coordination in order to streamline intergovernmental relations efforts and better share homeland security information with members of Congress as well as state and local officials.
• Assign Office of Security to Management Directorate. The Office of Security was moved to return oversight of that office to the Under Secretary for Management in order to better manage information systems, contractual activities, security accreditation, training and resources.

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LINK

Or would breaking it up just create even more bureaucracy?

Side thought exercise: If breaking it up into separate agencies, move them out of NOVA?

By putting Mayorkas head of DHS the dems could more efficiently run 22 departments into the ground.

TexAgs91 said:

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By putting Mayorkas head of DHS the dems could more efficiently run 22 departments into the ground.

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Like to see Elon and Vivek ask the same question about breaking it up.

Yes please!

Yes, in hindsight it was a mistake.

You had a bunch of agencies with their own culture and lumped them into bloated bureaucracy.

DOGE it

I am truly torn on this issue. I do fear unnecessary duplication. But I just don't see DHS being effective a much of anything anymore.

Should government dept. XYZ be broken up?

The answer is always yes

I don't know, but I wish someone would update me on what color level we're at.

Yes, I believe it should be broken up and several of those departments should be merged together and around half the employees RIF'd

aggiehawg said:

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I am truly torn on this issue. I do fear unnecessary duplication. But I just don't see DHS being effective a much of anything anymore.

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They came about AFTER terrorists had a field day with us on 9/11.

They never were effective as separate entities, and lumping together a bunch of failures doesn't make them any less of failures.

If it gets broken up I won't shed a tear.

No. As someone else said, that just causes bureaucratic redundancy.

Reduce it to fit within the constitution and then cut 50% of that.

It needs to be streamlined and managed properly with a focus on the mission, not building administrative kingdoms.

aggiehawg said:

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Is it just too large by housing so many different and varied missions?

Quote:

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The Department of Homeland Security has a vital mission: to secure the nation from the many threats we face. This requires the hard work of more than 260,000 employees in jobs that range from aviation and border security to emergency response, from cybersecurity analyst to chemical facility inspector. Our duties are wide-ranging, and our goal is clear - keeping America safe.

---

Quote:

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The Department of Homeland Security was established in 2002, combining 22 different federal departments and agencies into a unified, integrated Cabinet agency.

---

Quote:

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A six-point agenda for the Department of Homeland Security was developed and announced in July 2005, by Secretary Chertoff to ensure that the Department's policies, operations, and structures are aligned in the best way to address the potential threats both present and future that face our nation. The six-point agenda is structured to guide the department in the near term and result in changes that will:
[ol]

Increase overall preparedness, particularly for catastrophic events

Create better transportation security systems to move people and cargo more securely and efficiently

Strengthen border security and interior enforcement and reform immigration processes;

Enhance information sharing with our partners

Improve DHS financial management, human resource development, procurement and information technology

Realign the DHS organization to maximize mission performance.

[/ol]

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Quote:

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• mprove National Response and Recovery Efforts by Focusing FEMA on Its Core Functions. FEMA reports directly to the Secretary of Homeland Security. In order to strengthen and enhance our Nation's ability to respond to and recover from manmade or natural disasters, FEMA will focus on its historic and vital mission of response and recovery.
• Integrate Federal Air Marshal Service (FAMS) into Broader Aviation Security Efforts. The Federal Air Marshal Service was moved from the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) bureau to the Transportation Security Administration to increase operational coordination and strengthen efforts to meet this common goal of aviation security.
• Merge Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs. This new Office of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs merged certain functions among the Office of Legislative Affairs and the Office of State and Local Government Coordination in order to streamline intergovernmental relations efforts and better share homeland security information with members of Congress as well as state and local officials.
• Assign Office of Security to Management Directorate. The Office of Security was moved to return oversight of that office to the Under Secretary for Management in order to better manage information systems, contractual activities, security accreditation, training and resources.

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LINK

Or would breaking it up just create even more bureaucracy?

Side thought exercise: If breaking it up into separate agencies, move them out of NOVA?

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Separate. Is the simple answer. But for every separation agency must be smashed.

MouthBQ98 said:

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It needs to be streamlined and managed properly with a focus on the mission, not building administrative kingdoms.

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There are still turf wars that happen within DHS. Just a fact of life.

How about raising the hiring standards for TSA. The ones I have seen are not keeping us safe.

Was that a vital mission that Biden let in 11,000,000 undocumented aliens. The DHS sat back and watched and even facilitated it. The DHS should be dismantled. It no longer serves the best interests of the country.

Break it up and demote it from cabinet level. Law enforcement agencies (USSS, FBI, Customs and Border Patrol, etc) get rolled together under DOJ with new leadership to break up the FBI cabal. Coast Guard goes back to DoD. FEMA goes under Department of the Interior (with direct leadership from the Cajun Navy), INS goes into State Dept. Basically take away all the high level leadership and put them under existing departments to get them as far away from the political appointees as possible.

Gaw617 said:

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How about raising the hiring standards for TSA. The ones I have seen are not keeping us safe.

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9/11 was an excuse to start Homeland -- another bureaucracy and government power grab. The whole thing needs to be eliminated.

Whatever is constitutionally mandated and subject to the 10th amendment. THAT'S IT! Congress makes laws and the President signs them; the Judiciary interprets them. Agencies/Regulators do not. If someone doesn't like that, all they have to do is to go through the amendment process.

txags92 said:

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Break it up and demote it from cabinet level. Law enforcement agencies (USSS, FBI, Customs and Border Patrol, etc) get rolled together under DOJ with new leadership to break up the FBI cabal. Coast Guard goes back to DoD. FEMA goes under Department of the Interior (with direct leadership from the Cajun Navy), INS goes into State Dept. Basically take away all the high level leadership and put them under existing departments to get them as far away from the political appointees as possible.

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Like everything except the bolded. There's no saving the State Department nd INS is too mportant to be under that craphole.

Another point in all this was that the Patriot Act was passed 5-weeks after 9-11 which means that it was already on the shelf ready to roll prior to 9-11.

Act creating DHS came about later November 2002 and they went full tilt. A lot of the money that was spent after 9-11 was on stuff that no longer exists today. Somehow we went from the relative peace at end of the cold war 1991 to 2001 where theres a terrorist behind every tree, sanding in line at the airport with no shoes and shutting down public access areas like dams and bridges (most of which are still closed today).

TWIC was an other debacle that fell under the creation of DHS. Somehow it was justified that workers needed yet another ID card. And TWIC infrastructure failed to work for years after it was stood up. Hell it may not even work now.

Serious thought, when TSA was created it appeared to me the same rent-a-cop dorks that used to work Airport security just switched uniforms and did the same job. They seem to be really good now at groping 70 years old women and pre-teen kids but otherwise they don't seem to be doing anything they weren't doing previously only now they are all paid by Uncle Sam and get a fat government pension. What is the price tag for that and do we need TSA?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ellistalton/2019/01/28/is-the-tsa-really-necessary/

The DHS was founded to protect the homeland from outside threats and terrorism.

Fast forward 23 years, it is now fighting states for attempting to secure our borders from an illegal foreign invasion that is allowing the terrorist to walk right on in.

Axe it.

aggiehawg said:

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txags92 said:

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Break it up and demote it from cabinet level. Law enforcement agencies (USSS, FBI, Customs and Border Patrol, etc) get rolled together under DOJ with new leadership to break up the FBI cabal. Coast Guard goes back to DoD. FEMA goes under Department of the Interior (with direct leadership from the Cajun Navy), INS goes into State Dept. Basically take away all the high level leadership and put them under existing departments to get them as far away from the political appointees as possible.

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Like everything except the bolded. There's no saving the State Department nd INS is too mportant to be under that craphole.

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Good example of this re INS. All that got blasted into different sub agencies in USCBP (Border Patrol) USCIS (INS), and ICE (Investigatory and Enforcement arm). USSS comes from Treasury to DHS. USCG which was originally Treasury goes from DOT to DHS. FEMA gets scooped up. Airport screening goes from private contractors to DHS.

And while all this is going on, ATF was/is being used as a crossover agency with the DOJ as we saw in Butler, PA where they inexplicably had ATF people augmenting US Secret Service on Trump's detail.

aggiehawg said:

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txags92 said:

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Break it up and demote it from cabinet level. Law enforcement agencies (USSS, FBI, Customs and Border Patrol, etc) get rolled together under DOJ with new leadership to break up the FBI cabal. Coast Guard goes back to DoD. FEMA goes under Department of the Interior (with direct leadership from the Cajun Navy), INS goes into State Dept. Basically take away all the high level leadership and put them under existing departments to get them as far away from the political appointees as possible.

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Like everything except the bolded. There's no saving the State Department nd INS is too mportant to be under that craphole.

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I was assuming State gets a massive overhaul to make them understand that the president sets foreign policy, not State. I think taking alot of state's responsibilities and putting them somewhere else (maybe DoD?) would be a good first step. I would love to see the foreign service rolled back to be directly under the executive somehow and have the rest of State whittled down to a bunch of diplomatic event planners.

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I was assuming State gets a massive overhaul to make them understand that the president sets foreign policy, not State. I think taking alot of state's responsibilities and putting them somewhere else (maybe DoD?) would be a good first step. I would love to see the foreign service rolled back to be directly under the executive somehow and have the rest of State whittled down to a bunch of diplomatic event planners.

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Certainly sounds good but just cannot see that ever happening. For one, the CIA and State are joined at the hip in our embassies.

Secondly, Soros practically owns State because most of them were on a Soros payroll at one time or another and it's a revolving door between State and Soros think tanks and other "academic" organizations. They will want to eep that gravy train going.

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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I was assuming State gets a massive overhaul to make them understand that the president sets foreign policy, not State. I think taking alot of state's responsibilities and putting them somewhere else (maybe DoD?) would be a good first step. I would love to see the foreign service rolled back to be directly under the executive somehow and have the rest of State whittled down to a bunch of diplomatic event planners.

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Certainly sounds good but just cannot see that ever happening. For one, the CIA and State are joined at the hip in our embassies.

Secondly, Soros practically owns State because most of them were on a Soros payroll at one time or another and it's a revolving door between State and Soros think tanks and other "academic" organizations. They will want to eep that gravy train going.

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And that is why I think state needs to be broken up even moreso than DHS. The fact that CIA and State are so tight is not a coincidence when it comes to the fake Russian dossier, the Ukraine "whistleblower" impeachment, etc. CIA and State have been running their own shadow government for decades. Trump was the first to actually challenge them about it and the results show why they need to be broken up.

The guy Rogan just had on was on the ground on Afghanistan and Iraq and gives good insight into the dynamic with State and the intelligence agencies. Wild stories from that guy.