Interesting short video explaining the premise of Atlas Shrugged.

That book was a real eye opener for me, my junior year at A&M. Have read it several times over the years. Still speaks to me.

Should The Fountainhead be read first?

Trajan88 said:

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Should The Fountainhead be read first?

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Much shorter book. I read it after Atlas Shrugged and frankly was not that bowled over as I was reading AS.

Just a matter of how much time you have, I think. But read both, if you have the chance.

Trajan88 said:

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Should The Fountainhead be read first?

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Fountainhead is 70% novel, 30% political manifesto. Atlas Shrugged probably flips those numbers (at least in the back half). I preferred the Fountainhead and would recommend that you read it first since it's probably half as long (figure out if you like her style before you commit to a 1300 page book).

Ayn Rand gets a ton of hate, but one thing for which she had an extreme talent was clearly demonstrating how good intentions are for naught when they're actualized through bureaucratic diktats that are implemented with no concern for the dizzying complexities of the markets and never subjected to any competitive pressures.

Atlas Shrugged is full off made-up scenarios that are almost exactly like this. This could be straight out of her book if she wrote it today.
https://www.wsj.com/opinion/kamala-harris-joe-biden-broadband-internet-rollout-cox-communications-8acba576
"Three years after the $42.5 billion subsidy passed, not a single project is underway."

I would say the Fountainhead is good if you have someone that just needs a quick dip into this line of thinking - if I remember correctly it's more on an individual level for the protagonist.

Atlas Shrugged widens the lens to a societal level and makes you think about the bigger picture.

So Fountainhead may actually be more persuasive for someone who wonders "Why should I care?" Of course, they'll have to be talented at something they care about or have life/career ambitions for the message to mean anything.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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Trajan88 said:

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Should The Fountainhead be read first?

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Fountainhead is 70% novel, 30% political manifesto. Atlas Shrugged probably flips those numbers (at least in the back half). I preferred the Fountainhead.

Ayn Rand gets a ton of hate, but one thing for which she had an extreme talent was clearly demonstrating how good intentions are for naught when they're actualized through bureaucratic diktats that are implemented with no concern for the dizzying complexities of the markets and never subjected to any competitive pressures.

Atlas Shrugged is full off made-up scenarios that are almost exactly like this. This could be straight out of her book if she wrote it today.
https://www.wsj.com/opinion/kamala-harris-joe-biden-broadband-internet-rollout-cox-communications-8acba576
"Three years after the $42.5 billion subsidy passed, not a single project is underway."

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Being a woman, I preferred AS because of Dagny Taggart. Best compliment I ever received was when I was talking to a guy in a history seminar class (we were both early for class) and after chatting for a few minutes he asked me, "Have you read Atlas Shrugged? Because you remind me of the character, Dagny from that book."

That was a WOW from me. (Not a pick-up line but how weird would it have been if it had been?)

Ayn, great books.

The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged are two of the best books I have ever read.

Big stories, compelling characters....

I read Atlas Shrugged the first time during the pandemic and craziness of the 2020 election fallout.

Incredible book

Atlas Shrugged requires the reader to think and apply what one is reading to what the current world situation is and how it mirrors.

There used to be many more properly educated people who were able to do that.
Elon knows it. Understands it. He's not in a gulch yet but wouldn't blame him in the future if he does that.

I read The Fountainhead the summer before 9th grade and Atlas Shrigged the summer before colle (and 4 more time since)

I always like to say that Fountainhead posed the question and Atlas Shrugged gave the answer. My signature block is from AS (who hot it from Aristotle).

It was bonus reading for Management 466 when I took it in 1996. If you read it and met with the prof in a small group at a coffee shop to discuss it at the end of the semester, it was 5 points added to your semester grade. That prof was a great one and headed to Pepperdine after that year. He was also big on game theory which was really interesting. Probably my favorite class.

Who is Elon Musk?

aggiehawg said:

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Atlas Shrugged requires the reader to think and apply what one is reading to what the current world situation is and how it mirrors.

There used to be many more properly educated people who were able to do that.
Elon knows it. Understands it. He's not in a gulch yet but wouldn't blame him in the future if he does that.

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Elon is the most John Galt like person I can think of.

I have an extremely low opinion of Ayn Rand. After all, she got really butt hurt about a guy being judged by an American jury because the jury wasn't good enough to judge him.

What did the guy do? He kidnapped and murdered a little girl, desecrated the body, and then tried to use her body to extract a ransom from her father.

Rand described him as brilliant and exceptional.

Anyone who would defend William Hickman is a real piece of *****

That said, Atlas Shrugged was an interesting piece of work. It has always seemed to me to be something of a science fiction novel.

It's been decades, I but recall liking We the Living, Anthem and Return of the Primitive more than her two big novels. (Which I did also like, but they could be a bit of a slog at times)

That YouTube page is a rabbit hole.

Just warning everyone.

Excellent novel

eric76 said:

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I have an extremely low opinion of Ayn Rand. After all, she got really butt hurt about a guy being judged by an American jury because the jury wasn't good enough to judge him.

What did the guy do? He kidnapped and murdered a little girl, desecrated the body, and then tried to use her body to extract a ransom from her father.

Rand described him as brilliant and exceptional.

Anyone who would defend William Hickman is a real piece of *****

That said, Atlas Shrugged was an interesting piece of work. It has always seemed to me to be something of a science fiction novel.

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Don't know what you are talking about on the Hickman thing but there is little about AS that is science fiction.

We are living the beginning of it...right now. The Democrat policy plank is where you end up in AS. They are openly advocating for policy and outcomes that you find in AS.

AS should absolutely be required reading. Excellent book.

It is not science fiction, but yes, it is fiction, eric. Good job in identifying the genre. Here's a cookie

DannyDuberstein said:

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It was bonus reading for Management 466 when I took it in 1996. If you read it and met with the prof in a small group at a coffee shop to discuss it at the end of the semester, it was 5 points added to your semester grade. That prof was a great one and headed to Pepperdine after that year. He was also big on game theory which was really interesting. Probably my favorite class.

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Was the prof Leonard Burgess? He was of the same mind as Rand, and a wonderful teacher.

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After all, she got really butt hurt about a guy being judged by an American jury because the jury wasn't good enough to judge him

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You also believe Trumps jury in NY was fair and impartial.

Ran and Orwell were icons of prescience. I regard them as twentieth century prophets.

DannyDuberstein said:

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It was bonus reading for Management 466 when I took it in 1996. If you read it and met with the prof in a small group at a coffee shop to discuss it at the end of the semester, it was 5 points added to your semester grade. That prof was a great one and headed to Pepperdine after that year. He was also big on game theory which was really interesting. Probably my favorite class.

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https://business.baylor.edu/directory/?id=Blaine_McCormick

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Interesting short video explaining the premise of Atlas Shrugged.

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She is a bad philosopher.

It was Blaine McCormick. Great find above, Texas Tea! I took his class in the summer when he was a very recent Phd, but was headed to teach at Pepperdine in the fall. He was a Rand fan, but he was a bigger fan of John Nash and game theory. This would have been a couple of years after Nash's Nobel prize in economics and several years before A Beautiful Mind was published (and then made into a movie).

Great class!

The story was fine but I did find it annoying she clearly saw herself as Dagny (the primary female character) who was basically the sole desire of the male protagonists. She clearly thought highly of herself.

I mean, unabashed pride and ego is kind of one of the founding pillars of her view of the world. So I don't know why anyone is surprised by this.

She didn't believe there was anything wrong with being the most badass version of yourself possible and believing it didn't take away from anyone else to be that way.

DannyDuberstein said:

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It is not science fiction, but yes, it is fiction, eric. Good job in identifying the genre. Here's a cookie

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I mean, the giant death ray was pretty science fiction, and it was set in a future from the 50's where socialism had already destroyed the rest of the world outside of the US.

DannyDuberstein said:

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It was Blaine McCormick. Great find above, Texas Tea! I took his class in the summer when he was a very recent Phd, but was headed to teach at Pepperdine in the fall. He was a Rand fan, but he was a bigger fan of John Nash and game theory. This would have been a couple of years after Nash's Nobel prize in economics and several years before A Beautiful Mind was published (and then made into a movie).

Great class!

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Small world, I was in that very same class. Probably my favorite class at A&M as well. That was actually his last class to teach before receiving his PhD and heading off to Pepperdine.

John Nash did come up in regards to game theory, but if I recall correctly, he was a huge John Von Neumann fan. I still have my copy of one of the books he assigned (Prisoner's Dilemma) which focused on Von Neumann. Regardless, great class and wish I had the opportunity to have studied more under him.

DannyDuberstein said:

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It was Blaine McCormick. Great find above, Texas Tea! I took his class in the summer when he was a very recent Phd, but was headed to teach at Pepperdine in the fall. He was a Rand fan, but he was a bigger fan of John Nash and game theory. This would have been a couple of years after Nash's Nobel prize in economics and several years before A Beautiful Mind was published (and then made into a movie).

Great class!

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Thank you for your reply. Dr. Burgess preceded Dr. McCormick by a decade. If they were acquainted, I am certain they would have been great friends.

I and my cardiology practice colleagues are strong believers in the tenets of game theory. The analytic and qualitative assessments required for a comprehensive, holistic treatment methodology intending to produce the maximum goodness of the outcome while managing the potential regrets are primary elements in our patient care decision making process.

Best regards.

Yes, that was definitely the main focus. You had it summer session #1? If so, I was the dude with red hair and a very 90s goatee lol (don't tell Liucci that look should have stayed there lol). I was not a big "speak up in class" kind of guy in general, but he definitely inspired it from me in that one, so I was pretty vocal in that one. The small class and his style really lent itself to it

Absolutely. A lot to be learned from it and the variety of decisions and approaches it can be utilized for is pretty incredible.