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He did it

This is an overly aggressive prosecution and everyone should be embarrassed.

deadelephant98 said:

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This is an overly aggressive prosecution and everyone should be embarrassed.

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No, it's not. What is embarrassing is the judge saying they could keep out the fact that he was the producer on the film, which gave him a lot of leeway over what was done and what wasn't. It's part of the core of the case.

A woman died. The armor has already been sentenced. Baldwin should be too. Although I doubt he will be.

I love you, Annie. You don't need to give me that face.

I believe he should be shielded by the fact that he's an idiot that was handed a gun that they paid a professional to manage and ensure everyone was safe.

If you have a different opinion, you're welcome to it.

oh, now we care about overly-aggressive prosecutions.

Derek Chauvin and 3 other minni police officers, Daniel Penny, Donald Trump, Kyle Rittenhouse and many more would be happy to have this conversation with you.

its hilarious that this idiot actor and gun-grabbing liberal is now being charged with killing someone with a gun.

Agreed. In my view Baldwin is negligent for failing to double-check, but he was acting in reliance on others. It's a civil wrong but not something that should lead to criminal liability.

I care about all of those, Richard. What a weird comment.

deadelephant98 said:

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I love you, Annie. You don't need to give me that face.

I believe he should be shielded by the fact that he's an idiot that was handed a gun that they paid a professional to manage and ensure everyone was safe.

If you have a different opinion, you're welcome to it.

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Define "They" paid? They as in Baldwin, he is financially involved in this series, he was cutting corners. He had a professional, 30 plus years in the industry, hired to oversee the guns on set but changed the contract right before the guy was leaving for the shoot. Baldwin was pressuring everyone on set to cut corners. The guy is Guilty and he did pull the trigger. You get what you pay for, the old adage comes to fruition.

deadelephant98 said:

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I love you, Annie. You don't need to give me that face.

I believe he should be shielded by the fact that he's an idiot that was handed a gun that they paid a professional to manage and ensure everyone was safe.

If you have a different opinion, you're welcome to it.

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The "professional".

deadelephant98 said:

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This is an overly aggressive prosecution and everyone should be embarrassed.

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So, what is the readers digest version of this. I admit I didn't pay a single bit of attention when all this went down.

If I understand it there was an armorer who was supposed to be in charge of handling these guns safely and she handed him a loaded gun. He didn't check it then lied to all eternity about whether or not he pulled the trigger.
Armorer is already in jail. But what did Baldwin do exactly to have charges brought against him? Is he being charged because he pulled the trigger?

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Armorer is already in jail. But what did Baldwin do exactly to have charges brought against him? Is he being charged because he pulled the trigger?

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Essentially, yes. Now this judge has ruled that the fact Baldwin was also Executive Proudcer who hired the armorer is inadmissible. What that also means is that Baldwin was receiving the daily reports which included other "accidental" discharges.

That morning, most of the camera crew walked off set due to their safety concerns on set. Very low budget movie, 6 million so corners were cut. To what extent the jury hears any of that remains to be seen in light of the judge's ruling.

For opening statements, I'll give the nod to the prosecution. Clear concise timeline and narrative of what happened. Not too long not argumentative.

Defense counsel went on too long, had several objections from the prosecution sustained by the judge (all at sidebar) and was argumentative more than factual of what the evidence would show. He meandered a bit.

agsalaska said:

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deadelephant98 said:

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This is an overly aggressive prosecution and everyone should be embarrassed.

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So, what is the readers digest version of this. I admit I didn't pay a single bit of attention when all this went down.

If I understand it there was an armorer who was supposed to be in charge of handling these guns safely and she handed him a loaded gun. He didn't check it then lied to all eternity about whether or not he pulled the trigger.
Armorer is already in jail. But what did Baldwin do exactly to have charges brought against him? Is he being charged because he pulled the trigger?

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Not being sarcastic when I say he pointed a loaded gun, pulled the trigger and killed a woman. He will have to live with that for the rest of his life.

How he's not held responsible for killing her is beyond me. The armorer loaded the gun. He shot her. It's a sad story all around.

This is a new one...someone goal tending for Alec Baldwin,

Thanks.

And thanks Gilligan.

GOing to be ineteresting

TyHolden said:

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He did it

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I'm not so sure. All them Baldwin boys look alike…

One of the first rules of gun safety is "don't point a gun at anything you aren't willing to destroy."

I abide by that.

There is enough CGI tech these days, why even bother with even blanks? I realize this was a low budget film, but damn.

Tree Hugger said:

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One of the first rules of gun safety is "don't point a gun at anything you aren't willing to destroy."

I abide by that.

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Yea so I have all of zero experience on film sets, war reenactments, or anything else like that. But I did spend 16 years in the pawn industry so I have been handed thousands of 'unloaded guns' only to find out over a dozen of them were in fact loaded. Everyone that has spent any amount of time around guns knows exactly what I am talking about.

There is a zero percent chance I would not check the gun. Zero. And I would certainly be responsible if I didn't check and killed someone no matter who handed it to me. To claim otherwise doesn't make a lot of sense. It might be different if he was some 20 year old actor/actress he had never spent any time at all around guns. But Baldwin is a grown man who I'm sure has.

Alec Baldwin wanted to take everyone else's guns away so he could have a monopoly on murder.

Typical Dem

In a CRIMINAL case, are things like 'common sense gun safety' and 'movie industry best practices/policy' relevant?
I would think NO, so for me it would come down to the legal definition of 'manslaughter' and his actions.

Seems like 'common sense gun safety' and 'movie set policies' might matter in a CIVIL trial, but not here.

Gilligan said:

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agsalaska said:

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deadelephant98 said:

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This is an overly aggressive prosecution and everyone should be embarrassed.

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So, what is the readers digest version of this. I admit I didn't pay a single bit of attention when all this went down.

If I understand it there was an armorer who was supposed to be in charge of handling these guns safely and she handed him a loaded gun. He didn't check it then lied to all eternity about whether or not he pulled the trigger.
Armorer is already in jail. But what did Baldwin do exactly to have charges brought against him? Is he being charged because he pulled the trigger?

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Not being sarcastic when I say he pointed a loaded gun, pulled the trigger and killed a woman. He will have to live with that for the rest of his life.

How he's not held responsible for killing her is beyond me. The armorer loaded the gun. He shot her. It's a sad story all around.

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if he has Narcissistic Personality Disorder he won't feel bad about doing it. I'm not an expert on the topic but have read part of that diagnosis is not seeing people as well, people. They are seen as 2 dimensional internal objects that are part of an internal narrative. These objects are "good" or "bad" nothing in between. She will be classified as a bad object, nothing more, and he will move on.

Ghost91 said:

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In a CRIMINAL case, are things like 'common sense gun safety' and 'movie industry best practices/policy' relevant?
I would think NO, so for me it would come down to the legal definition of 'manslaughter' and his actions.

Seems like 'common sense gun safety' and 'movie set policies' might matter in a CIVIL trial, but not here.

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No they are relevant for a manslaughter case insofar as his actions being reckless in those circumstances.

Also relevant in civil wrongful death case but relevant in this criminal case due to the nature of the charge.

aggiehawg said:

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Ghost91 said:

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In a CRIMINAL case, are things like 'common sense gun safety' and 'movie industry best practices/policy' relevant?
I would think NO, so for me it would come down to the legal definition of 'manslaughter' and his actions.

Seems like 'common sense gun safety' and 'movie set policies' might matter in a CIVIL trial, but not here.

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No they are relevant for a manslaughter case insofar as his actions being reckless in those circumstances.

Also relevant in civil wrongful death case but relevant in this criminal case due to the nature of the charge.

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Thanks, Hawg. So to check my understanding - although common sense and Hollywood policies aren't 'law', if there are lots of established policies and practices and those policies and practices were violated by the defendant, that can support the 'reckless' element of the law?

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Thanks, Hawg. So to check my understanding - although common sense and Hollywood policies aren't 'law', if there are lots of established policies and practices and those policies and practices were violated by the defendant, that can support the 'reckless' element of the law?

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Yes, exactly. This is a manslaughter case not intentional homicide.

I will always defer to hawg and her long, respected record as TexAgs Counsel, but my point is simply that, as an attorney and former prosecutor I, as a theoretical DA, would not have brought criminal charges. His politics, personality, and temper issues aside, it's an absolute tragedy but I think this is ridiculous in a criminal court.

Again, for the knee-jerk crew, I am not standing up for Alec Baldwin and I'm not slighting any other instance of what could be characterized as "aggressive prosecution."

The weaponization, hollywoodification, and marketing-for-clicks of our justice system is disgusting. You don't get to cry when it happens to someone you agree with and laugh when it happens to someone you hate.

ATX_AG_08 said:

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deadelephant98 said:

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I love you, Annie. You don't need to give me that face.

I believe he should be shielded by the fact that he's an idiot that was handed a gun that they paid a professional to manage and ensure everyone was safe.

If you have a different opinion, you're welcome to it.

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The "professional".

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it's. just. bad. writing.

deadelephant98 said:

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I will always defer to hawg and her long, respected record as TexAgs Counsel, but my point is simply that, as an attorney and former prosecutor I, as a theoretical DA, would not have brought criminal charges. His politics, personality, and temper issues aside, it's an absolute tragedy but I think this is ridiculous in a criminal court.

Again, for the knee-jerk crew, I am not standing up for Alec Baldwin and I'm not slighting any other instance of what could be characterized as "aggressive prosecution."

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When this first happened back in October 2021, I did not believe they would file charges against Baldwin. Partially as a result of the accidental nature and Santa Fe being so liberal with a lot of celebrities living in the area.

But then sometime later, the OSHA report came out. There were a lot of problems on that set, zero to no training nor oversight for safety concerns. Other discharges that were never assessed. Baldwin's dual role as actor and Exec Producer gave him more knowledge than just what he himself personally observed. He was getting the daily set reports. And that very morning, after registering complaints before with no actions taken, camera crew walked off the set and refused to continue.

The OSHA report will likely be admitted, maybe redacted as to Baldwin's role as EP, in light of the judge's ruling.

Again, and as always with respect, my understanding is that the walk-off was actually centered on unreasonable work conditions and accommodations, not concerns about prop guns popping off live ammo or people otherwise feeling that they were about to die on set.

I believe the whole (dumbed down) idea is that:

Baldwin broke lots of the normal rules for safety, cut corners, did unsafe practices that an "experienced" actor should have known not to do. Most notably *never actually aim and pull the trigger at anyone, always away from bystanders.*

That negligence is what turns this from an accident into something worthy of being tried in court for manslaughter.


More or less correct?

Not Coach Jimbo said:

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I believe the whole (dumbed down) idea is that:

Baldwin broke lots of the normal rules for safety, cut corners, did unsafe practices that an "experienced" actor should have known not to do. Most notably *never actually aim and pull the trigger at anyone, always away from bystanders.*

That negligence is what turns this from an accident into something worthy of being tried in court for manslaughter.


More or less correct?

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That's the prosecution's theory, yes. BUT unless Baldwin himself testifies (unlikely) what Baldwin knew or didn't know at the time will not be heard by this jury.

ATX_AG_08 said:

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deadelephant98 said:

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I love you, Annie. You don't need to give me that face.

I believe he should be shielded by the fact that he's an idiot that was handed a gun that they paid a professional to manage and ensure everyone was safe.

If you have a different opinion, you're welcome to it.

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The "professional".

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That can't be real can it?

no. that's not her.

she was definitely a nepo-baby tho.

It is. That's what she looked like back then.

I don't know. I see that as a rule in real life, but not in movies. How do you film John Wick (or any action movie) where the actor isn't allowed to point a gun at anybody ever - much less pass the gun across someone off camera trying to record a shot? How would any of that work?

You are able to film those because you pay someone to handle the safety aspect. And while we'd all like to think that such an important role is going to be an industry legend with a high salary in every film, it almost never is. An armorer feels lucky to be on set and usually got the job through a connection. They, like everyone else, are looking to coast through a simple process, get a credit, and secure the next gig. And while jackalopes will post pictures of her and say she didn't know what she was doing and that she was a nobody but a budget hire, this is Thell Reeds daughter (look him up). She knew exactly what she was doing and either made a tragic mistake or wasn't paying close enough attention. It's awful, but it happens. Michael Massee died in 2016 and never got over the trauma of killing Brandon Lee. No charges filed. Whatever you think of Alec, and I despise the whole high-dollar-lawyered-up-nonsense of "I never even pulled the trigger," I don't believe a criminal charge is appropriate.

Anyway, that's it for me. There's my opinion as an attorney, former prosecutor, and someone in the business.