https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13219765/therapy-generation-Americans-depression-epidemic.html

"… experts are starting to wonder if the widespread use of therapy may be having the opposite effect and actually fueling America's depression crisis."

"They argue the treatment, however well-intentioned, can instill a 'victim' mentality where people become hyper-focused on their feelings and less engaged with the world around them, making them more depressed."

"Around a quarter of US adults said they had visited a therapist or psychiatrist in 2022, which is twice as high as 20 years ago and far higher than the around 3 percent in the UK."

"Therapy speak has become so common it has permeated mainstream culture in the US. Clinical words used during counseling like 'gaslighting', 'trauma' and 'microaggressions' have become household terms."

" Professor Robert Dingwall, a social scientist and adviser to the UK government, told DailyMail.com that looking on at the situation in America, there is a concern among sociologists that people are being referred to therapy at the slightest sign of hardship in their life. "

" 'There is a tendency to medicalize everyday problems in pursuit of commercial interests,' he said, whether it be rejection from a partner or a failed job interview."

" 'This is something that people have been saying for 50 or 60 years, a concern that's been expressed by both psychiatrists and sociologists.' "

"This fosters a victim mentality, said Shawn Smith, a clinical psychologist based in Colorado."

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The answer is yes. If there is a revenue source to pay for therapy, it will increase. Having 23% of your adult population "in therapy" in one year is not healthy by any standard, IMHO.

YES!!!

"I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me."

Studies show that woke people are more depressed.

https://nypost.com/2024/03/17/lifestyle/woke-people-more-likely-to-be-unahppy-anxious-and-depressed-new-study-suggests/

No surprise. Woke folks internalize the problems of the world to such an extent that they must lash out and find an object for their frustrations.
Jesus said,
"Let not your heart be troubled…" and not to worry (John 14 and Matthew 6).

How would you prove this one way or another?

People who go to counseling are more likely to state they are depressed and those that don't will say they aren't.

Seems like it would be difficult to prove.

Read the book Bad Therapy.

Sack up *******. Life is hard sometimes, it's even harder when you blame the world for the problems you create for yourself.

No, lack of real father

Making the weak weaker as often as making them stronger by using terrible unscientific methodology, based on political ideology instead of method derived science.

techno-ag said:

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Studies show that woke people are more depressed.

https://nypost.com/2024/03/17/lifestyle/woke-people-more-likely-to-be-unahppy-anxious-and-depressed-new-study-suggests/

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Mental illness is mental illness

Zergling Rush said:

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Sack up *******. Life is hard sometimes, it's even harder when you blame the world for the problems you create for yourself.

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It's also harder when you are bipolar or schizophrenic

Cynic said:

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How would you prove this one way or another?

People who go to counseling are more likely to state they are depressed and those that don't will say they aren't.

Seems like it would be difficult to prove.

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Quite possibly. But the US has 23 % of adults in therapy and higher rates of depression than similar OECD countries. The story relates that a 2023 Gallup Poll found almost 1/3 of Americans reported being depressed at some point.
You expect some of that due to brain chemistry imbalances, but 1/3??? When places like the UK and Denmark average 5-8% in therapy and with crappy, overcast cold weather?
Something else is going on.

On page one of a three page thread on Oklahoma teen Nex Benedict, the fourth post is about the book Bad Therapy by Abigail Shrier, mentioned above.

My response is here, coalescing generational differences, technology, the psychologization of life, and philosophical underpinnings of our current cultural paradigm, listing three books and a couple useful links.

Recently, psychologist Jean Twenge, whose works are in the above link, responded to Bad Therapy in her substack (paywalled).

Quote:

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With the teen mental health crisis raging, there's another potential answer for what might be causing so many young people to be depressed and anxious. This answer is new and counter-intuitive: psychological therapy.

In other words, what we thought was the cure is actually the cause.

The theory is laid out in a new book whose title sums up its central premise: Bad Therapy. The book, written by journalist Abigail Shrier, has clearly touched a nerve: At one point it was the #1 selling book on amazon, and it is currently on the New York Times bestseller list.

Much of the book resonated with me as a culture researcher and as a parent. However, some of the book's arguments fell flat, or were not supported by the research evidence. I'll start with the conclusions I think are questionable, and will then move on to what I think the book gets right.

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Edit 1 to add link.

Edit 2 to say as someone who has been in the field of mental health for a quarter of a century, when my youngest child returned home from 1st grade spouting psychobabble buzz words (i.e., social emotional learning), I was incensed, because they don't need to be talking about that *****

This did not happen with my two oldest when we were living in Hawaii. It happened in California.

Sugar in everything we eat.

Teslag said:

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Zergling Rush said:

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Sack up *******. Life is hard sometimes, it's even harder when you blame the world for the problems you create for yourself.

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It's also harder when you are bipolar or schizophrenic

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That's true, but a) that's not who he's talking about, and b) those people, if properly cared for, aren't simple seeing "therapists." They're (hopefully) being treated by psychiatrists. Even those that actually NEED counseling are probably not the subject of the statement.

A family member of mine, for example. She isn't bipolar, but she is (as far as I can tell) a full blown narcissist. She needs help, and has for decades, but refuses. I'm not even sure other family members believe she needs is. Anyway, while a psychiatrist wouldn't hurt, a counselor or whatever would probably be fine.

Agreed. One thing I really like about the VA is their approach to therapy and PTSD. The approach is to drive the veteran to not avoid the issues, deal with them head on, and form coping strategies to minimize the grip it has over those affected.

There's a plan to get better, not wallow.

Teslag said:

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Zergling Rush said:

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Sack up *******. Life is hard sometimes, it's even harder when you blame the world for the problems you create for yourself.

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It's also harder when you are bipolar or schizophrenic

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Prevalence rate of bipolar I - 0.6%. Bipolar II - 0.8%

Prevalence rate of schizophrenia - 0.3% - 0.7%

Focusing on yourself = negative spiral
Focusing on purpose & gratitude = healthy

Pray. Seek relationship with God. Give thanks. Live within the context and purpose of Christ.

Anyone parent should be able to tell you that mind often follows body. So get to bed, get up, work out, & eat clean.

The profit model for therapy isn't in curing patients but in gaining return patients. Also - it seems there's far too many crazy people drawn into the practice (so much so there were jokes about dating a psych major back in the day).

The drug companies REALLY want to hook you. Again; dependable dependent cash flow.

Social interaction matters. Touch grass. Talk to real people. Invest time in family. Have kids. Talk to neighbors. Build community. Turn off screens. Cancel social media accounts.

We don't see demographics embracing therapy and needing less of it… we see demographic capture and industry expansion. So it's evident that the STATED goal isn't being actualized…

Talk therapy is heavily female centric. And leftist thought is trying to claw deeper in.

So… I'd say I tend to see therapy as well-meaning but too often functionally parasitic.

Create the disease, offer the cure. $$$$$

On a similar thread, we have seen an explosion of people supposedly suffering from PTSD. The disorder is certainly real, but today it seems any disappointment in life causes PTSD, like getting turned down for a date. It is cheapening the seriousness of people who do actually have it.

My favorite psychologist Sam Vaknin claims 100% that mental illness is contagious. He explains the research and how its not really an argument anymore.

Now he doesn't claim you shouldn't see a psychologist but he also claims people with mental illness are overwhelmingly attracted to the profession so you do the math.

And just as an aside his opinion on drug rehab is interesting. He thinks the entire rehab industry is a scam. Why? Because the relapse rate is 99%. Yes as in actually 99% , not some made up number, 99%. He asks how you charge for something or advocate for something that has that failure rate?

Yes

Martin Cash said:

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On a similar thread, we have seen an explosion of people supposedly suffering from PTSD. The disorder is certainly real, but today it seems any disappointment in life causes PTSD, like getting turned down for a date. It is cheapening the seriousness of people who do actually have it.

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Well there are real world benefits now for claiming a diagnosis for that, and many other things.

Quote:

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The profit model for therapy isn't in curing patients but in gaining return patients.

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Here's some free therapy:

"Some of your problems are your own fault."

Madman said:

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Martin Cash said:

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On a similar thread, we have seen an explosion of people supposedly suffering from PTSD. The disorder is certainly real, but today it seems any disappointment in life causes PTSD, like getting turned down for a date. It is cheapening the seriousness of people who do actually have it.

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Well there are real world benefits now for claiming a diagnosis for that, and many other things.

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I've seen an explosion in reasonable accommodation requests in the workplace for PTSD diagnoses, and the accommodations the employees ask for get really ridiculous really quickly.

Our biggest problem is excuse manufacturing combined with a solidarity amongst excuse manufacturers to reinforce eachother's victimhood claims instead of criticizing them.

Ryan the Temp said:

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Here's some free therapy:

"Most, if not all, of your problems are your own fault."

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FIFY

Therapy can be incredibly helpful to a person that has experienced grieve or trauma or struggles with clinical anxiety. The tools and strategies a therapist can help a person to develop to improve their life can be life changing and life saving. Like anything else, finding the right therapist is crucial as is putting in the work from a patient side of things.
In my opinion there are 2 things that lead to unfavorable outcomes:
1) A portion therapist are either not good (just like any industry) or they provide an atmosphere in which the patient develops the victim mentality instead of a growth/healing mentality.
2) The first few visits to therapy are rough, usually result in the patient unraveling as old wounds are opened and they become more in touch with their emotions like a normal well rounded human should be. After 2-3 rounds the patient thinks this is a disaster as they feel worse than when they started, if they push through that is where tremendous growth happens in a short amount of time. IMO people are quitting here and it leads to people simply going to a Psych and getting on brain rotting SSRI drugs and they are in a mental/emotionally fragile state leading to worse and worse well being.

It is easy to say "just tough it out" but many people experience incredibly ****ed up situations and these experiences can lead to stunted growth and generational trauma that burdens society.

My personal experience with therapy has been great. This includes my fiancee's experience with individual therapy. At no point have either of our therapists recommended us keep going longer than they felt necessary - if anything, it's been the therapists that have ended it early.

She and I both come from broken homes without fathers. As such, we went to couples therapy while dating to prepare for marriage. It's been a godsend. Of course, this is Christian faith-based with an excellent counselor, founded on scripture and biblical truth. But never has victim mentality been instilled or promoted.

There are good therapists and bad, along with good doctors and bad. Select based on personal recommendations and first-hand witness of change.

The reason more Americans are going to therapists is because they have no community to get good wisdom and accountability. I have a solid church community and group of men I get advice from on how to be a man, a husband, and a father. I have a bible study that I share life struggles and receive prayer from. Few people do.

That's a issue with our broken, hyper-individualistic society. And people think that a therapist will fix it. A good therapist should encourage you to get into good community to essentially replace them. And they should focus on addressing any issues that might prevent you from getting into good community.

Yes there are therapists that take advantage of the system and make money off people's brokenness. Most of those are getting paid from also broken health insurance system.

But the personal money I've spent out of pocket on therapy has been worth every cent. And it's far cheaper than the cost of a wedding, divorce, and child support.

aggiebq03+ said:

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This reminds me of something Peterson said on the Chris Williamson podcast: There is no difference between thinking about yourself and being depressed or narcistic.

So if therapy is all about getting you to think about yourself then the outcome is that you either become narcistic and blame other people for your problems or you discover just how many problems you do have and develop a sense of hopelessness in being able to live life. Now this obviously doesn't apply to targeted therapy for specific traumas or cooperation to resolve communication breakdowns and limitations in a relationship.

aggiebq03+ said:

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Her new book on this topic is really informative.

UTExan said:

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"They argue the treatment, however well-intentioned, can instill a 'victim' mentality where people become hyper-focused on their feelings and less engaged with the world around them, making them more depressed."

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Can confirm. We have a family friend that is a licensed therapist and she enacts an emotional and feelings-based parenting approach on her kids. Needless to say, the kids are notoriously wild and disobedient. Who would have thought...?