Last fall....

Just watched an update by You Tube, Mentour Pilot. It was exceptionally well done and the whole story seems simply tragic. Yes he ate a mushroom while on a guys weekend. However he was also likely suffering from a more serious chronic depression that the mushroom, and the emotions of his weekend exacerbated (reunion with friends to memorialize a deceased friend).

So the FAAs long standing position is that depression and more specifically the use of anti-depressants can be grounds for license revocation. It's a better be safe than sorry approach. However this leads to many potentially not seeking treatment for fear of losing their job.

It seems this incident could be spurring the FAA to reevaluate that stance and take a more nuanced look at management of pilot and flight crew mental health.

Recommend this video. Very interesting to follow up on this story.

C@LAg said:

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pilots are one of the few jobs there really should allow little to no wiggle room for deviation from policy.

no mental health issues, no depressed, no drug users.

period.

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Only pot users... we want our pilots to be able to get high!

C@LAg said:

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pilots are one of the few jobs there really should allow little to no wiggle room for deviation from policy.

no mental health issues, no depressed, no drug users.

period.

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The mental health issues, how would the airline know? I understand drug use but how would you implement a way to measure depression?

Mentour Pilot is one of my aviation go-to channels. Also, blancolirio, 74Gear, and Pilot Debrief.

C@LAg said:

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pilots are one of the few jobs there really should allow little to no wiggle room for deviation from policy.

no mental health issues, no depressed, no drug users.

period.

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That's the policy currently in place. There's mountimg evidence that on the mental health side it's leading to pilots NOT seeking treatment

C@LAg said:

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pilots are one of the few jobs there really should allow little to no wiggle room for deviation from policy.

no mental health issues, no depressed, no drug users.

period.

---

Practically everyone has some mental health issue if you ask a psychiatrist so if you draw the line at strictly none, good luck booking a flight.

There is a massive push for mental health treatment in the maritime industry. I worked with a captain that "disappeared" overnight. Know if several other crew members that have as well. Very obviously suicide. The 2 industries are similar in many regards.

C@LAg said:

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pilots are one of the few jobs there really should allow little to no wiggle room for deviation from policy.

no mental health issues, no depressed, no drug users.

period.

---

Sorry, but hardline stances on having "no mental health issues" only encourages people that really need help to NOT seek help.

Same line of thinking goes for people that think it's a good idea for those with a mental health history not being able to own guns.

Limiting rights and professions from people simply for mental health conditions only hurts society and does nothing to encourage people to seek help.

Mentour Pilot is awesome. His videos are always really well done.

If you like his channel, check out Paper Skies. He does videos mostly on Soviet aviation history, but his dad was a Soviet fighter pilot and he grew up in Ukraine during the height of the Cold War. His insight into Soviet aviation culture and society are really interesting, and he adds a lot of really cool perspective.

Unfortunate here, but simple, IMO.

This pilot needs to be grounded permanently

As a 20 year Air Force aviator there should no....zero tolerance for mental illness or drugs in the cockpit. Sorry if that makes any bodies "heart frown" but some things are more important. And no DIE either. The most competent should be allowed on the flight deck. Period. That guy was a lunatic and had no place on the flight deck I bet his peers are glad he's gone.

Agreed with this guy.

Some reform on mental health issues could be a good thing. Right now people are pressured into hiding problems. No sympathy for this guy though. He's lucky to be alive after trying that crap, and I don't mean because of a crash.

C@LAg said:

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pilots are one of the few jobs there really should allow little to no wiggle room for deviation from policy.

no mental health issues, no depressed, no drug users.

period.

---

Bad take. As others have sad, all that's going to do is push pilots to not report and not seek treatment because then they're out of a career they spent a lot of time and money building. That kind of policy incentivizes exactly the opposite of what you want. Flying commercial planes can be a high stress job with a lot of taxing demands. If you want happy, healthy, well-adjusted pilots, you shouldn't have policies that kick out pilots for seeking treatment to deal with those demands and be happy, healthy, and well-adjusted.

Shoefly! said:

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C@LAg said:

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pilots are one of the few jobs there really should allow little to no wiggle room for deviation from policy.

no mental health issues, no depressed, no drug users.

period.

---

The mental health issues, how would the airline know? I understand drug use but how would you implement a way to measure depression?

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Smart mirrors and AI would be one solution, possibly forced solution in some scenarios.

Have several pilot friends who also say that only US military trained pilots be allowed to fly commercial aircraft. I agree with you and them.

Shoefly! said:

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C@LAg said:

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pilots are one of the few jobs there really should allow little to no wiggle room for deviation from policy.

no mental health issues, no depressed, no drug users.

period.

---

The mental health issues, how would the airline know? I understand drug use but how would you implement a way to measure depression?

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Observed behavior should be reported and that pilot be evaluated by a psychiatrist.

Any anti-anxiety/depression meds being subscribed should be cause for immediate reassignment or removal.

Wyoming Aggie said:

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C@LAg said:

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pilots are one of the few jobs there really should allow little to no wiggle room for deviation from policy.

no mental health issues, no depressed, no drug users.

period.

---

Sorry, but hardline stances on having "no mental health issues" only encourages people that really need help to NOT seek help.

Same line of thinking goes for people that think it's a good idea for those with a mental health history not being able to own guns.

Limiting rights and professions from people simply for mental health conditions only hurts society and does nothing to encourage people to seek help.

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Same with physical issues. The second a doc writes "neurological" or "blood pressure " or some similar term in a physical - poof! Grounded. Huge pay and career impact. A fight to ever fly again.

I've seen a guy who was out for 2 years because of a comment that other docs immediately waved off, and I've seen someone fly for decades while suffering from significant nightly sleep disruptions. It'd've been far better to treat the latter with some meds and have a well rested pilot than for him to bull through - but the structure incentivizes the appearance of health over the fact of health.

Same idea in youth sports where they say a doc visit requires a doc sign off to resume. Some kids choose to play through pain.

William K. Klingaman said:

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Shoefly! said:

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C@LAg said:

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pilots are one of the few jobs there really should allow little to no wiggle room for deviation from policy.

no mental health issues, no depressed, no drug users.

period.

---

The mental health issues, how would the airline know? I understand drug use but how would you implement a way to measure depression?

---

Observed behavior should be reported and that pilot be evaluated by a psychiatrist.

Any anti-anxiety/depression meds being subscribed should be cause for immediate reassignment or removal.

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This. I've seen pilots grounded by squadron commanders and operations officers for personal issues like divorces and one had the death of a child. They were provided resources to deal with this and were returned to flight status. But it is the job of fellow crew members to be cognizant of issues with other crew members and report it up the chain.

Puts pilots and airlines between a rock and a hard place. Mental health is not grounds for termination, similar to drug addiction, and airlines would be required to keep pilots employed while getting help. Pilots who seek help run the risk of being grounded and maybe losing their license.

Like jumped off the boat?

OnlyForNow said:

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Like jumped off the boat?

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Yup. I saw the captain offshore galveston and he jumped several days later on their trip to New Jersey.

*****

TRD-Ferguson said:

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Have several pilot friends who also say that only US military trained pilots be allowed to fly commercial aircraft. I agree with you and them.

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So you want to drastically curtail commercial aviation? We are having fewer and fewer military pilots entering private industry right as we are about to hit a period of high retirements. I love military pilots but there are no where near enough.
Also, the history of American Aviation safety would show that we don't having civilian pilots is a major safety risk. Air travel has never been safer and is way safer than essentially all other modes of travel in this country including walking.

Captain Pablo said:

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Unfortunate here, but simple, IMO.

This pilot needs to be grounded permanently

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No one is saying he shouldn't be and won't. He will never see the inside of a cockpit again.

Pilot experts on here are asf almost as bad kolache experts.

I'll bet you didn't say that right.

The pilot high on shrooms followed them up with a chicken fajita kolache

Air traffic controllers should probably be held to the same standard (if they aren't already).

I just never understand how one goes from - I'm depressed and want to kill myself to I want to take a bunch of innocent people out with me. It seems that a mind has to be way beyond just simple depression to make that leap. I do find it fascinating as a topic, though.

stetson said:

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Puts pilots and airlines between a rock and a hard place. Mental health is not grounds for termination, similar to drug addiction, and airlines would be required to keep pilots employed while getting help. Pilots who seek help run the risk of being grounded and maybe losing their license.

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That is the cost of doing business. Though, given this is a public safety concern, the costs of taking care of pilots who do run into whatever health issues should be handled by the federal government.

Yes, they may be grounded, but they would not be facing any sort of loss of income.

Ah yes, exactly what we need, more federal government involvement in anything and everything.

AgNav93 said:

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As a 20 year Air Force aviator there should no....zero tolerance for mental illness or drugs in the cockpit. Sorry if that makes any bodies "heart frown" but some things are more important. And no DIE either. The most competent should be allowed on the flight deck. Period. That guy was a lunatic and had no place on the flight deck I bet his peers are glad he's gone.

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I'll say this and I don't care who it offends. When I get on a plane, if I see two middle aged white men with professional haircuts, and are in reasonably good shape are my pilots, I feel good. If I saw two women who are black or brown (which admittedly has never happened), I'd cringe and probably get off the flight. It's the world you've created dems with your DEI push. They may be the most competent people to fly that plane, but your policies creates doubt and you should be ashamed by that.