*****House Speaker 3.0*****

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zephyr88
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10:07a, 10/20/23
AG
It's going nowhere today.

The republicans are not united and will continue to be their own worst enemy.

The democrats are pestilent, but will unite for their causes like no others. Listening to this broad lecture America of how wonderful it would be with Hakim Jeffries is laughable.

This is a clown show.

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Old May Banker
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10:14a, 10/20/23
AG
When you elect clowns, you get a circus.
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Get Off My Lawn
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In reply to zephyr88 • 10:36a, 10/20/23
The Uniparty has been more entrenched and suborn than principled conservatives, so they're once again digging in with an expectation that the conservatives will chicken out first.

The only these squishy R's come around is if their special interests release them, and those interests won't accept "partial funding" until they've given up hope of a possibility of "full funding."

So conservatives will need to actually grind the fed to a standstill and hold it there until the uniparty relents. And each time they flinch first, it trains the uniparty to lean on them harder.
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damiond
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In reply to Old May Banker • 10:41a, 10/20/23
Old May Banker said:
When you elect clowns, you get a circus.


and we got three active rings right now
one around the whitehouse
one around congress
and one around the courts
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YouBet
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10:42a, 10/20/23
AG
Cynical view: we now know we have ~20 Republicans that are actually Democrats because they refuse to vote for actual conservatives to represent them as SoH.

Nuanced view: Republicans represent local constituents who are more diverse in thought than Democrats, so you are going to have far more centrist people in the Republican party than the Democrat party. The latter is now 100% far left wing who will never divert from the party line regardless of who they represent. And who they represent largely adhere to far-left wing policy anyway.
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rocky the dog
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10:44a, 10/20/23
AG
Elections are when people find out what politicians stand for, and politicians find out what people will fall for.
- Alfred E. Neuman
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Rapier108
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10:46a, 10/20/23
The GOP isn't referred to as The Stupid Party for no reason..
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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Hubert J. Farnsworth
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10:46a, 10/20/23
I saw in round 2 that Mike Kelly(PA) voted for Boehner. Lol.
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Tea Party
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In reply to YouBet • 10:47a, 10/20/23
YouBet said:
Cynical view: we now know we have ~20 Republicans that are actually Democrats because they refuse to vote for actual conservatives to represent them as SoH.

Nuanced view: Republicans represent local constituents who are more diverse in thought than Democrats, so you are going to have far more centrist people in the Republican party than the Democrat party. The latter is now 100% far left wing who will never divert from the party line regardless of who they represent. And who they represent largely adhere to far-left wing policy anyway.
Exactly.

What we really need is a centrist party as a third party which will most likely be the majority by peeling support from the right and the left. The right and the left would then primarily only have to negotiate with the middle which makes the pendulum swings that much smaller and better for America in the long run.

On the left, if the right portion does not want to go along with the centrist party, then they show their hand that they are actually in favor of big government socialism rather than governing as their constituents want.

On the right, the left half like the McCarthy, Hurd, Cheney, etc types now can be honest of where their political beliefs actually lie and quit blaming the conservatives.
Learn about the Texas Nationalist Movement
https://tnm.me
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Hubert J. Farnsworth
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In reply to YouBet • 10:50a, 10/20/23
YouBet said:
Cynical view: we now know we have ~20 Republicans that are actually Democrats because they refuse to vote for actual conservatives to represent them as SoH.

Nuanced view: Republicans represent local constituents who are more diverse in thought than Democrats, so you are going to have far more centrist people in the Republican party than the Democrat party. The latter is now 100% far left wing who will never divert from the party line regardless of who they represent. And who they represent largely adhere to far-left wing policy anyway.


"Some Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans."
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LMCane
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In reply to Old May Banker • 10:56a, 10/20/23
Old May Banker said:
When you elect clowns, you get a circus.
I'm old enough to remember when many on F16 predicted this exact scenario

when dummies like Gaetz were threatening to vote with the leftists
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CheeseSndwch
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10:56a, 10/20/23
I'm in favor of any situation that delays/prevents the never ending deficit spending.
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Get Off My Lawn
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In reply to Tea Party • 10:58a, 10/20/23
Tea Party said:
YouBet said:
Cynical view: we now know we have ~20 Republicans that are actually Democrats because they refuse to vote for actual conservatives to represent them as SoH.

Nuanced view: Republicans represent local constituents who are more diverse in thought than Democrats, so you are going to have far more centrist people in the Republican party than the Democrat party. The latter is now 100% far left wing who will never divert from the party line regardless of who they represent. And who they represent largely adhere to far-left wing policy anyway.
Exactly.

What we really need is a centrist party as a third party which will most likely be the majority by peeling support from the right and the left. The right and the left would then primarily only have to negotiate with the middle which makes the pendulum swings that much smaller and better for America in the long run.

On the left, if the right portion does not want to go along with the centrist party, then they show their hand that they are actually in favor of big government socialism rather than governing as their constituents want.

On the right, the left half like the McCarthy, Hurd, Cheney, etc types now can be honest of where their political beliefs actually lie and quit blaming the conservatives.
Vehemently disagree.

We have reached a point where a democracy is voting itself riches from the public coffer. America will not be saved by a "moderate" party pushing an agenda of consensus.

America is saved by wrenching power away from DC.

I'm of the mind that anything short of merit-based voter restriction leaves us on a path to destruction. Restrict federal voting to net tax payers, military members, and honorable vets. Anything shy of that is bailing water from the Titanic.
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K2-HMFIC
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In reply to Get Off My Lawn • 11:03a, 10/20/23
Get Off My Lawn said:
Tea Party said:
YouBet said:
Cynical view: we now know we have ~20 Republicans that are actually Democrats because they refuse to vote for actual conservatives to represent them as SoH.

Nuanced view: Republicans represent local constituents who are more diverse in thought than Democrats, so you are going to have far more centrist people in the Republican party than the Democrat party. The latter is now 100% far left wing who will never divert from the party line regardless of who they represent. And who they represent largely adhere to far-left wing policy anyway.
Exactly.

What we really need is a centrist party as a third party which will most likely be the majority by peeling support from the right and the left. The right and the left would then primarily only have to negotiate with the middle which makes the pendulum swings that much smaller and better for America in the long run.

On the left, if the right portion does not want to go along with the centrist party, then they show their hand that they are actually in favor of big government socialism rather than governing as their constituents want.

On the right, the left half like the McCarthy, Hurd, Cheney, etc types now can be honest of where their political beliefs actually lie and quit blaming the conservatives.
Vehemently disagree.

We have reached a point where a democracy is voting itself riches from the public coffer. America will not be saved by a "moderate" party pushing an agenda of consensus.

America is saved by wrenching power away from DC.

I'm of the mind that anything short of merit-based voter restriction leaves us on a path to destruction. Restrict federal voting to net tax payers, military members, and honorable vets. Anything shy of that is bailing water from the Titanic.
So...someone who self admits that they do not believe in democracy.
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Malibu
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11:04a, 10/20/23
I've been enjoying watching Prometheus have his liver eaten by an eagle everyday. I think this is less Consevatives vs. squishy moderates as it is a rejection of MAGA bombthrowers, election denialism, political bullying as a substitute for coalition building and governance. There are some principled Conservatives who recognize that Jim Jordan is no statesman, and SOTH and America need a statesman at this moment.
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Faustus
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11:10a, 10/20/23
Sweet allusion.

As an aside I could use a replenished liver each day, sans the eagle part.
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hunter2012
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In reply to K2-HMFIC • 11:14a, 10/20/23
AG
K2-HMFIC said:
Get Off My Lawn said:
Tea Party said:
YouBet said:
Cynical view: we now know we have ~20 Republicans that are actually Democrats because they refuse to vote for actual conservatives to represent them as SoH.

Nuanced view: Republicans represent local constituents who are more diverse in thought than Democrats, so you are going to have far more centrist people in the Republican party than the Democrat party. The latter is now 100% far left wing who will never divert from the party line regardless of who they represent. And who they represent largely adhere to far-left wing policy anyway.
Exactly.

What we really need is a centrist party as a third party which will most likely be the majority by peeling support from the right and the left. The right and the left would then primarily only have to negotiate with the middle which makes the pendulum swings that much smaller and better for America in the long run.

On the left, if the right portion does not want to go along with the centrist party, then they show their hand that they are actually in favor of big government socialism rather than governing as their constituents want.

On the right, the left half like the McCarthy, Hurd, Cheney, etc types now can be honest of where their political beliefs actually lie and quit blaming the conservatives.
Vehemently disagree.

We have reached a point where a democracy is voting itself riches from the public coffer. America will not be saved by a "moderate" party pushing an agenda of consensus.

America is saved by wrenching power away from DC.

I'm of the mind that anything short of merit-based voter restriction leaves us on a path to destruction. Restrict federal voting to net tax payers, military members, and honorable vets. Anything shy of that is bailing water from the Titanic.
So...someone who self admits that they do not believe in democracy.
I absolutely do not believe in democracy, anyone with a brain can see how it turns to demagoguery and tyranny of the majority. Which is exactly what we have now.

Regardless when the political spectrum continually shifts left, today's moderates are just last decades' leftists. A Republican Moderate means a Democrat that runs on the Republican ticket. In the same way, compromise to grow the government at every turn STILL GROWS THE GOVERNMENT. It's just a question of if we want to take the express freeway to hell or the back-country highway to hell. Same destination with different length to the journeys.
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agwrestler
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In reply to K2-HMFIC • 11:19a, 10/20/23
AG
K2-HMFIC said:
Get Off My Lawn said:
Tea Party said:
YouBet said:
Cynical view: we now know we have ~20 Republicans that are actually Democrats because they refuse to vote for actual conservatives to represent them as SoH.

Nuanced view: Republicans represent local constituents who are more diverse in thought than Democrats, so you are going to have far more centrist people in the Republican party than the Democrat party. The latter is now 100% far left wing who will never divert from the party line regardless of who they represent. And who they represent largely adhere to far-left wing policy anyway.
Exactly.

What we really need is a centrist party as a third party which will most likely be the majority by peeling support from the right and the left. The right and the left would then primarily only have to negotiate with the middle which makes the pendulum swings that much smaller and better for America in the long run.

On the left, if the right portion does not want to go along with the centrist party, then they show their hand that they are actually in favor of big government socialism rather than governing as their constituents want.

On the right, the left half like the McCarthy, Hurd, Cheney, etc types now can be honest of where their political beliefs actually lie and quit blaming the conservatives.
Vehemently disagree.

We have reached a point where a democracy is voting itself riches from the public coffer. America will not be saved by a "moderate" party pushing an agenda of consensus.

America is saved by wrenching power away from DC.

I'm of the mind that anything short of merit-based voter restriction leaves us on a path to destruction. Restrict federal voting to net tax payers, military members, and honorable vets. Anything shy of that is bailing water from the Titanic.
So...someone who self admits that they do not believe in democracy.


If you didn't pay in or contribute, why should you have any say in how it's spent?
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Phatbob
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11:20a, 10/20/23
AG
The problem is we are fine with dysfunction instead of reform. We are demanding chaos instead of answers. This is not the way we fix anything, this is how we throw tantrums. This is what happens when we are okay with emotionally driven votes and we view our votes as "middle fingers to the establishment".

Grow up and look around. We need leaders with an actual plan that can get it done. The results are in and while MAGA might mean well, it is failing spectacularly at doing anything but chaos, and chaos gets us nothing good long term. We are wasting our opportunities to make an actual difference when we need that action as soon as possible and we need to do something different.
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K2-HMFIC
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In reply to agwrestler • 11:21a, 10/20/23
agwrestler said:
K2-HMFIC said:
Get Off My Lawn said:
Tea Party said:
YouBet said:
Cynical view: we now know we have ~20 Republicans that are actually Democrats because they refuse to vote for actual conservatives to represent them as SoH.

Nuanced view: Republicans represent local constituents who are more diverse in thought than Democrats, so you are going to have far more centrist people in the Republican party than the Democrat party. The latter is now 100% far left wing who will never divert from the party line regardless of who they represent. And who they represent largely adhere to far-left wing policy anyway.
Exactly.

What we really need is a centrist party as a third party which will most likely be the majority by peeling support from the right and the left. The right and the left would then primarily only have to negotiate with the middle which makes the pendulum swings that much smaller and better for America in the long run.

On the left, if the right portion does not want to go along with the centrist party, then they show their hand that they are actually in favor of big government socialism rather than governing as their constituents want.

On the right, the left half like the McCarthy, Hurd, Cheney, etc types now can be honest of where their political beliefs actually lie and quit blaming the conservatives.
Vehemently disagree.

We have reached a point where a democracy is voting itself riches from the public coffer. America will not be saved by a "moderate" party pushing an agenda of consensus.

America is saved by wrenching power away from DC.

I'm of the mind that anything short of merit-based voter restriction leaves us on a path to destruction. Restrict federal voting to net tax payers, military members, and honorable vets. Anything shy of that is bailing water from the Titanic.
So...someone who self admits that they do not believe in democracy.


If you didn't pay in or contribute, why should you have any say in how it's spent?
Then you don't believe in representative democracy...if that's what you believe then just own it.
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Kozmozag
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11:22a, 10/20/23
Republicans should be using this crisis(money for wars) to get serious cuts to everything.
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GeorgiAg
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11:22a, 10/20/23
AG
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LMCane
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In reply to Get Off My Lawn • 11:24a, 10/20/23
Get Off My Lawn said:
The Uniparty has been more entrenched and suborn than principled conservatives, so they're once again digging in with an expectation that the conservatives will chicken out first.

The only these squishy R's come around is if their special interests release them, and those interests won't accept "partial funding" until they've given up hope of a possibility of "full funding."

So conservatives will need to actually grind the fed to a standstill and hold it there until the uniparty relents. And each time they flinch first, it trains the uniparty to lean on them harder.
you mean the uniparty of leftists that Gaetz and only seven other "Republicans" joined to eliminate the GOP Speaker of the House?

which group are the "conservatives" again?
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93MarineHorn
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11:24a, 10/20/23
Quote:
I've been enjoying watching Prometheus have his liver eaten by an eagle everyday. I think this is less Consevatives vs. squishy moderates as it is a rejection of MAGA bombthrowers, election denialism, political bullying as a substitute for coalition building and governance. There are some principled Conservatives who recognize that Jim Jordan is no statesman, and SOTH and America need a statesman at this moment.
Great reference and I understand and respect this perspective in the abstract. However, politically speaking, this country is in no place for coalition building. Jordan and the vast majority of Republicans that support him are principled. It is the holdout Rinos that want to get in bed with Dems for more war $$$ and other useless pork. Election denialism? Please.
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XXXVII
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11:25a, 10/20/23
If they remain deadlocked and don't accomplish anything, America wins.
DeSantis 2024

FJB, FJB, FJB, etc
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GeorgiAg
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11:27a, 10/20/23
AG
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coconutED
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In reply to Malibu • 11:27a, 10/20/23
AG
Malibu said:
I think this is less Consevatives vs. squishy moderates as it is a rejection of MAGA bombthrowers, election denialism, political bullying America First principles as a substitute for coalition building and governance grift, corruption, and consolidation of power.
Fixed that for you
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FrankK
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In reply to K2-HMFIC • 11:28a, 10/20/23
AG
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nortex97
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11:28a, 10/20/23
AG
I favor McCarthy eventually winning it again just to stick it to the 8 morons who voted with the democrats.
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coconutED
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In reply to nortex97 • 11:32a, 10/20/23
AG
nortex97 said:
8 morons who voted with the democrats.
This is false. It was the democrats who voted with Gaetz and co, not the other way around. You know there's a difference, but you're being intentionally obtuse.
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Kenneth_2003
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In reply to YouBet • 11:34a, 10/20/23
AG
YouBet said:
Cynical view: we now know we have ~20 Republicans that are actually Democrats because they refuse to vote for actual conservatives to represent them as SoH.

Nuanced view: Republicans represent local constituents who are more diverse in thought than Democrats, so you are going to have far more centrist people in the Republican party than the Democrat party. The latter is now 100% far left wing who will never divert from the party line regardless of who they represent. And who they represent largely adhere to far-left wing policy anyway.
Your nuanced view is spot on. We can sit here pot banging about principled conservatism until the cows come home and it won't do a damn bit of good. There are plenty of seats that the republicans do currently hold that are in very Purple districts. Those folks will have to pick and choose when they vote hard right or those will be Democrat seats in another year.

Gaetz and his merry band of morons don't get that. They blew up the bridge because they didn't get everything they wanted. What he doesn't seem to understand is that he represents his one district, that's it. He and his misfits are 8 of 435 total votes. When you've got a slim majority if you have two functioning brain cells you realize you're not going to win every vote.
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nortex97
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In reply to coconutED • 11:36a, 10/20/23
AG
coconutED said:
nortex97 said:
8 morons who voted with the democrats.
This is false. It was the democrats who voted with Gaetz and co, not the other way around. You know there's a difference, but you're being intentionally obtuse.


A distinction without a difference if I've ever read one. Wow.
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blacksox
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11:36a, 10/20/23
Gym Jordan goes down for a third time. I believe that's a TKO.
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Kenneth_2003
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In reply to coconutED • 11:39a, 10/20/23
AG
coconutED said:
nortex97 said:
8 morons who voted with the democrats.
This is false. It was the democrats who voted with Gaetz and co, not the other way around. You know there's a difference, but you're being intentionally obtuse.
So the Democrats voted lock step to assist 8 morons who were willing to shoot the GOP House in the foot.

Rule 1... Post pics (of course)
Rule 2... Don't get in the way when your enemy is shooting themselves in the foot
Rule 3... If your enemy needs assistance shooting themselves in the foot, you certainly provide that assistance.
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StandUpforAmerica
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In reply to Kenneth_2003 • 11:41a, 10/20/23
Kenneth_2003 said:
YouBet said:
Cynical view: we now know we have ~20 Republicans that are actually Democrats because they refuse to vote for actual conservatives to represent them as SoH.

Nuanced view: Republicans represent local constituents who are more diverse in thought than Democrats, so you are going to have far more centrist people in the Republican party than the Democrat party. The latter is now 100% far left wing who will never divert from the party line regardless of who they represent. And who they represent largely adhere to far-left wing policy anyway.
Your nuanced view is spot on. We can sit here pot banging about principled conservatism until the cows come home and it won't do a damn bit of good. There are plenty of seats that the republicans do currently hold that are in very Purple districts. Those folks will have to pick and choose when they vote hard right or those will be Democrat seats in another year.

Gaetz and his merry band of morons don't get that. They blew up the bridge because they didn't get everything they wanted. What he doesn't seem to understand is that he represents his one district, that's it. He and his misfits are 8 of 435 total votes. When you've got a slim majority if you have two functioning brain cells you realize you're not going to win every vote.
IMO nobody is going to lose a significant number of votes due to who they vote for the Speaker's role. People's memories aren't that long for a topic that doesn't directly impact most voters.
I'm voting for DeSantis in the primary, but will happily vote for Trump in the general election if he wins the primary.
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