I see it said a lot on here these days that if there is no victim, there is no crime?

I don't see the logic in it.

Sovereign Citizens often make that claim. No license plates. No driver's license. No insurance. Not obeying speed limits. No victim -- no crime.

Suppose that someone carries a firearm into a courtroom but doesn't use it. No victim, no crime. Right?

Suppose that someone uses your identity to borrow money. If they pay it back in full and on time, should that be considered a crime?

Suppose that you threaten someone but don't physically harm them, should there be a crime there? In the recent case where Colie shot Cook in self defense when Cook aggressively went after him as a "prank" in the mall in Virginia -- was Cook committing a crime?

I imagine that a great many of the SEC rules don't necessarily have victims. If no victims, can they be considered crimes?

If I'm driving 40 on the Interstate and nobody crashes into me, is that a crime?

If you have a picnic on someone's private land without permission, should such trespassing be considered a crime?

No victim, no crime?

Sir this is a Wendy's


j/k. yes, if I own a suppressor or an SBR and never shoot it, it's a crime. A stupid crime. but it's a crime.

eric76 said:

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I see it said a lot on here these days that if there is no victim, there is no crime?

I don't see the logic in it.

Sovereign Citizens often make that claim. No license plates. No driver's license. No insurance. Not obeying speed limits. No victim -- no crime.

Suppose that someone carries a firearm into a courtroom but doesn't use it. No victim, no crime. Right?

Suppose that someone uses your identity to borrow money. If they pay it back in full and on time, should that be considered a crime?

Suppose that you threaten someone but don't physically harm them, should there be a crime there? In the recent case where Colie shot Cook in self defense when Cook aggressively went after him as a "prank" in the mall in Virginia -- was Cook committing a crime?

I imagine that a great many of the SEC rules don't necessarily have victims. If no victims, can they be considered crimes?

If I'm driving 40 on the Interstate and nobody crashes into me, is that a crime?

If you have a picnic on someone's private land without permission, should such trespassing be considered a crime?

No victim, no crime?

---

Should read SEC rules don't apply to teams playing TAMU.

If you are referring to the Trump case in NY brought by Letitia James, that is a civil case, not a criminal one. She looked and looked but could not find a crime, so she filed a civil suit.

HTH.

There are crimes that by their very definition have to have a victim. Assault, battery, rape, murder.

Everything you posted is nothing more than an attempt to worm your way around the stupidity of what's being done to DJT, and the stupidity of those you love to vote for.

Most of those scenarios don't even come close to relating to his real estate case, and none are apples to apples comparisons.

So back to Wendy's with you I guess lol.

eric76 said:

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I see it said a lot on here these days that if there is no victim, there is no crime?

I don't see the logic in it.

Sovereign Citizens often make that claim. No license plates. No driver's license. No insurance. Not obeying speed limits. No victim -- no crime.

Suppose that someone carries a firearm into a courtroom but doesn't use it. No victim, no crime. Right?

Suppose that someone uses your identity to borrow money. If they pay it back in full and on time, should that be considered a crime?

Suppose that you threaten someone but don't physically harm them, should there be a crime there? In the recent case where Colie shot Cook in self defense when Cook aggressively went after him as a "prank" in the mall in Virginia -- was Cook committing a crime?

I imagine that a great many of the SEC rules don't necessarily have victims. If no victims, can they be considered crimes?

If I'm driving 40 on the Interstate and nobody crashes into me, is that a crime?

If you have a picnic on someone's private land without permission, should such trespassing be considered a crime?

No victim, no crime?

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And if there's no victim AND no crime?

aggiehawg said:

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If you are referring to the Trump case in NY brought by Letitia James, that is a civil case, not a criminal one. She looked and looked but could not find a crime, so she filed a civil suit.

HTH.

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So any mention of crimes on it is misdirection, then?

Quote:

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And if there's no victim AND no crime?

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It becomes a civil case, albeit a very crappy one.

aggiehawg said:

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If you are referring to the Trump case in NY brought by Letitia James, that is a civil case, not a criminal one. She looked and looked but could not find a crime, so she filed a civil suit.

HTH.

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Civil Suit - lower burden of proof, can still F up his and his family with equitable remedies. I can see why she did it rather than bring a criminal case.

eric76 said:

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If I'm driving 40 on the Interstate and nobody crashes into me, is that a crime?

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Definitely a crime. If you are in the far left lane, death penalty.

GeorgiAg said:

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Sir this is a Wendy's


j/k. yes, if I own a suppressor or an SBR and never shoot it, it's a crime. A stupid crime. but it's a crime.

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Stupid is always your correct answer.

How about you go to jail for owning both, & deal with the full extent of the consequences while the judge, states attorney, and your neighbor who ratted you out all keep RPG's, without a license, locked in their storage closets. - that would be a better comparison.

Mensa my ass.

Threat is assault under Texas Penal Code Section 22.01(2).

GeorgiAg said:

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aggiehawg said:

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If you are referring to the Trump case in NY brought by Letitia James, that is a civil case, not a criminal one. She looked and looked but could not find a crime, so she filed a civil suit.

HTH.

---

Civil Suit - lower burden of proof, can still F up his and his family with equitable remedies. I can see why she did it rather than bring a criminal case.

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I'm sure you can see that. Doesn't make it any less questionable and based on a personal vendetta. Still lawfare and really bogus.

so let's say that a company values real property at $X. They use that valuation in audited financial statements provided to banks to secure debt instruments to grow the company. The banks reviewed the statements and valuations themselves with their own valuation experts and agreed to the deals. Principal and interest are paid; company never defaults, and all parties are happy. Many years later, a different valuation expert says that real property should have been valued lower at $Y, the banks were defrauded, and the company's assets should now be seized and liquidated by the state so the company's founder and chairman can be bankrupted. Explain the crime.

Pluralizes Everythings said:

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Everything you posted is nothing more than an attempt to worm your way around the stupidity of what's being done to DJT, and the stupidity of those you love to vote for.

Most of those scenarios don't even come close to relating to his real estate case, and none are apples to apples comparisons.

So back to Wendy's with you I guess lol.

---

Bull*****

I don't buy into this crazy notion of "no victim, no crime" which is repeatedly being parroted. I consider it to be the mindset of Sovereign Citizens and I don't think much at all of their mental abilities.

I'm not trying to justify the prosecution of Trump -- I'm questioning one particularly stupid argument used here by those who are opposed to the prosecution.

As for those who I vote for? I suspect that I vote for people a hell of a lot more intelligent than those you vote for. In 2020, I voted for someone who has a PhD, but admittedly it wasn't exactly in a field I have much respect for. She's still much smarter than Trump or Biden, whichever you voted for.

GeorgiAg said:

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eric76 said:

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If I'm driving 40 on the Interstate and nobody crashes into me, is that a crime?

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Definitely a crime. If you are in the far left lane, death penalty.

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Yikes.

For what it's worth, I drove a '64 International C-900 pickup for years with a top speed, if no tailwind, of about 55 mph.

eric76 said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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eric76 said:

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If I'm driving 40 on the Interstate and nobody crashes into me, is that a crime?

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Definitely a crime. If you are in the far left lane, death penalty.

---

Yikes.

For what it's worth, I drove a '64 International C-900 pickup for years with a top speed, if no tailwind, of about 55 mph.

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In the left lane?

(I'm j/k if you can't tell)

eric76 said:

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Pluralizes Everythings said:

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Everything you posted is nothing more than an attempt to worm your way around the stupidity of what's being done to DJT, and the stupidity of those you love to vote for.

Most of those scenarios don't even come close to relating to his real estate case, and none are apples to apples comparisons.

So back to Wendy's with you I guess lol.

---

Bull*****

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That's the word you were looking for, and it perfectly describes your stance.

No sane person is making the arguments you are.

Maybe your attempting to form a typical MSM false equivalency? Not sure as the op is pretty out there.

GeorgiAg said:

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Sir this is a Wendy's


j/k. yes, if I own a suppressor or an SBR and never shoot it, it's a crime. A stupid crime. but it's a crime.

---

LOL
Thank you for that laugh.

eric76 said:

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I see it said a lot on here these days that if there is no victim, there is no crime?

I don't see the logic in it.

Sovereign Citizens often make that claim. No license plates. No driver's license. No insurance. Not obeying speed limits. No victim -- no crime.

Suppose that someone carries a firearm into a courtroom but doesn't use it. No victim, no crime. Right? Correct

Suppose that someone uses your identity to borrow money. If they pay it back in full and on time, should that be considered a crime?
Yes, because they are stealing your identity without your permission and limiting your ability to use your idenity and your financial means for something else.

Suppose that you threaten someone but don't physically harm them, should there be a crime there? In the recent case where Colie shot Cook in self defense when Cook aggressively went after him as a "prank" in the mall in Virginia -- was Cook committing a crime?
This is always a gray area. Example - I say right now I'm going to pound eric76 into the ground. Crime? Not really, because we don't know where each other are and there is no actual imminent threat. But say we cross paths at the store and I walk up to you and make very overt threats, both verbally but with body language - then you could make the argument a threat does exist, and therefore a crime occurred.

I imagine that a great many of the SEC rules don't necessarily have victims. If no victims, can they be considered crimes?
Again....the victims are those that have money stolen from them. Absolutely there are victims and absolutely a crime happens.

If I'm driving 40 on the Interstate and nobody crashes into me, is that a crime?
Depends....if you are by yourself and nobody is around, no, no crime. Because you are not impeding the flow of traffic or creating a danger to others. If you do it at rush hour and are knowingly creating a situation where danger is the result of your actions, then absolutely.

If you have a picnic on someone's private land without permission, should such trespassing be considered a crime?
You have violated the property rights of the landowner, so yes. No different than somebody breaking into your house while you are on vacation and living there.

No victim, no crime?

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This is a dumb post by the OP, what is the point?

Catchy sayings >< The Law

aggiehawg said:

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If you are referring to the Trump case in NY brought by Letitia James, that is a civil case, not a criminal one. She looked and looked but could not find a crime, so she filed a civil suit.

HTH.

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Which in of itself should be a crime....if no crime happened, you shoudl have no standing to sue somebody for somethign that didn't happen.

schmellba99 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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If you are referring to the Trump case in NY brought by Letitia James, that is a civil case, not a criminal one. She looked and looked but could not find a crime, so she filed a civil suit.

HTH.

---

Which in of itself should be a crime....if no crime happened, you shoudl have no standing to sue somebody for somethign that didn't happen.

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State AGs always have standing to bring whatever BS cases they want in state court.

Pluralizes Everythings said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Pluralizes Everythings said:

---

Everything you posted is nothing more than an attempt to worm your way around the stupidity of what's being done to DJT, and the stupidity of those you love to vote for.

Most of those scenarios don't even come close to relating to his real estate case, and none are apples to apples comparisons.

So back to Wendy's with you I guess lol.

---

Bull*****

---

That's the word you were looking for, and it perfectly describes your stance.

No sane person is making the arguments you are.

Maybe your attempting to form a typical MSM false equivalency? Not sure as the op is pretty out there.

---

No sane person makes the argument that without a victim, there is no crime.

schmellba99 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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She looked and looked but could not find a crime, so she filed a civil suit.

HTH.

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Which in of itself should be a crime....if no crime happened, you shoudl have no standing to sue somebody for somethign that didn't happen.

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"Crime crime crime"

Good Lord, people, does being a Trump supporter atrophy the brain or something?

It is not even alleged that these actions constituted a crime. But they ARE alleged to be a regulatory violation, with a completely distinct set of elements, burdens of proof, and penalties.

eric76 said:

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Pluralizes Everythings said:

---

Everything you posted is nothing more than an attempt to worm your way around the stupidity of what's being done to DJT, and the stupidity of those you love to vote for.

Most of those scenarios don't even come close to relating to his real estate case, and none are apples to apples comparisons.

So back to Wendy's with you I guess lol.

---

Bull*****

I don't buy into this crazy notion of "no victim, no crime" which is repeatedly being parroted. I consider it to be the mindset of Sovereign Citizens and I don't think much at all of their mental abilities.

I'm not trying to justify the prosecution of Trump -- I'm questioning one particularly stupid argument used here by those who are opposed to the prosecution.

As for those who I vote for? I suspect that I vote for people a hell of a lot more intelligent than those you vote for. In 2020, I voted for someone who has a PhD, but admittedly it wasn't exactly in a field I have much respect for. She's still much smarter than Trump or Biden, whichever you voted for.

---

You voted for somebody you perceive to be smart, but that doesn't mean she actually was smart.

And education does not equate to being smart; plenty of absolutely stupid educated people out there. The entire NE seaboard is full of them, as is congress, most of the government, most of the legal profession, etc.

aggiehawg said:

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schmellba99 said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

If you are referring to the Trump case in NY brought by Letitia James, that is a civil case, not a criminal one. She looked and looked but could not find a crime, so she filed a civil suit.

HTH.

---

Which in of itself should be a crime....if no crime happened, you shoudl have no standing to sue somebody for somethign that didn't happen.

---

State AGs always have standing to bring whatever BS cases they want in state court.

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...which should be criminal against the AG's. If you cannot prove damages, then by definition no crime occured and there should be zero standing for any legal action....because no crime occurred.

schmellba99 said:

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eric76 said:

---

Pluralizes Everythings said:

---

Everything you posted is nothing more than an attempt to worm your way around the stupidity of what's being done to DJT, and the stupidity of those you love to vote for.

Most of those scenarios don't even come close to relating to his real estate case, and none are apples to apples comparisons.

So back to Wendy's with you I guess lol.

---

Bull*****

I don't buy into this crazy notion of "no victim, no crime" which is repeatedly being parroted. I consider it to be the mindset of Sovereign Citizens and I don't think much at all of their mental abilities.

I'm not trying to justify the prosecution of Trump -- I'm questioning one particularly stupid argument used here by those who are opposed to the prosecution.

As for those who I vote for? I suspect that I vote for people a hell of a lot more intelligent than those you vote for. In 2020, I voted for someone who has a PhD, but admittedly it wasn't exactly in a field I have much respect for. She's still much smarter than Trump or Biden, whichever you voted for.

---

You voted for somebody you perceive to be smart, but that doesn't mean she actually was smart.

And education does not equate to being smart; plenty of absolutely stupid educated people out there. The entire NE seaboard is full of them, as is congress, most of the government, most of the legal profession, etc.

---

It isn't difficult to be smarter than either Biden or Trump. I certainly haven't heard anything intelligent from either of them.

It seems to me that both of them prove their lack of intelligence on a regular basis.

Antoninus said:

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schmellba99 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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She looked and looked but could not find a crime, so she filed a civil suit.

HTH.

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Which in of itself should be a crime....if no crime happened, you shoudl have no standing to sue somebody for somethign that didn't happen.

---

"Crime crime crime"

Good Lord, people, does being a Trump supporter atrophy the brain or something?

It is not even alleged that these actions constituted a crime. But they ARE alleged to be a regulatory violation, with a completely distinct set of penalties.

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Apparently being a trump hater atrophies the brain, so you have that going for you.

A regulation is the standards and codes by which an agency (which is a function of the state) will enforce laws. Like laws, regulations are codified and published so that parties are on notice regarding what is and isn't legal. And regulations often have the same force as laws, since, without them, regulatory agencies wouldn't be able to enforce laws.

In most cases, you can use "regulation" and "law" near interchangeably, which is the case here. But as hawg pointed out - the NY AG failed to find where any actual laws were broken, which means no actual crimes were committed. And as hawg also pointed out, AG's can file suit because it's Tuesday.

So...because regulations are codes and procedures that establish how an agency will enforce laws, and it's determined no laws were broken....how, then, can there be a claim that a regulation was broken? And if regulations are so different from laws...why do regulatory crimes often come with criminal punishment in additiont to civil damages?

eric76 said:

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schmellba99 said:

---

eric76 said:

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Pluralizes Everythings said:

---

Everything you posted is nothing more than an attempt to worm your way around the stupidity of what's being done to DJT, and the stupidity of those you love to vote for.

Most of those scenarios don't even come close to relating to his real estate case, and none are apples to apples comparisons.

So back to Wendy's with you I guess lol.

---

Bull*****

I don't buy into this crazy notion of "no victim, no crime" which is repeatedly being parroted. I consider it to be the mindset of Sovereign Citizens and I don't think much at all of their mental abilities.

I'm not trying to justify the prosecution of Trump -- I'm questioning one particularly stupid argument used here by those who are opposed to the prosecution.

As for those who I vote for? I suspect that I vote for people a hell of a lot more intelligent than those you vote for. In 2020, I voted for someone who has a PhD, but admittedly it wasn't exactly in a field I have much respect for. She's still much smarter than Trump or Biden, whichever you voted for.

---

You voted for somebody you perceive to be smart, but that doesn't mean she actually was smart.

And education does not equate to being smart; plenty of absolutely stupid educated people out there. The entire NE seaboard is full of them, as is congress, most of the government, most of the legal profession, etc.

---

It isn't difficult to be smarter than either Biden or Trump. I certainly haven't heard anything intelligent from either of them.

It seems to me that both of them prove their lack of intelligence on a regular basis.

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Well then, you have something in common with both!

Congrats!

Only idiot libertarians believe there has to be direct harm for a crime to exist. Quite a few come around these parts.

Can you provide several examples of posts on here stating this?

First two posters vote for this, again and again and again

MookieBlaylock said:

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First two posters vote for this, again and again and again

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They're Biden boys through and through