Relevant Article

Quote:

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Too many candidates and political operatives have concluded often for good short-term practical reasons that the only way to unite the base voters in each party is to feed them a steady diet of vitriol, reminding them relentlessly of what they hate about the other side. They can't agree on their own priorities or solutions, and they think their party colleagues are mediocre, but they know the other side is worse.

The end political power justifies these unpleasant means, for far too many. It's no surprise that more than a third of the American electorate now votes to oppose the candidates they dislike, rather than to support candidates they want to win. These aggressive, unapologetic efforts at dehumanization, delegitimization and destruction of the "other" group this phenomenon is what's breaking down our democracy.

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I think the points of this article apply to the far right as well. Their information conduit is discreditable and silly news sources selling lies to feed their narrative as opposed to the University setting.

We're not a democracy. We are a constitutional republic.

Both the left and the right absolutely have terrible news sources which bias people, but only one side is trying to completely change the country into something its founders wouldn't recognize, so motivation and context is important.

Criticize your own side, OP.

Waffledynamics said:

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Criticize your own side, OP.

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They can't, or won't. That would require telling people they hate: "my bad I made a mistake."

Much too difficult for them.

I'd agree with this. Divisiveness and confirmation bias creates opportunities to obtain political power or isolate and dominate economic market segments. As much as we disagree, we actually still have much in common but the extremes on both sides dominate discourse and rhetoric and both sides are afraid to relax their guard in the slightest.

I will say there is a fundamental difference they must be accounted for that can be a useful complement but results in the oscillation we experience: conservatives want to minimize change from what is tested and proven and known, whereas liberals want to entertain changes or new ideas or innovations. These can be complementary to provide steady stability while innovating new solutions to arising problems.

A new element has arisen however: critical theorist utopians and nihilists that either spite every institution that isn't ideologically useful or want to radically alter the entire structure of existence upon purely theoretical ideological lines in rd less fashion. This new faction has dominated the more liberal of the previous dichotomy and are steering them into radical reckless ideological actions with no interest in compromise.

The conservatives are greatly concerned about this development and how dangerous it could be for us all.

I think the article is right on point. This country and democracy are in trouble and I don't see any immediate or simple solution.

Waffledynamics said:

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Criticize your own side, OP.

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The whole article is a criticism of students on the left.

Read, become informed and then comment.

Its easier that way.

It's the crazy cycle. The wife or husband gets pissed and says something stupid. The other spouse responds in kind. This creates a positive feedback loop of hatred until they eventually divorce. The only solution is both sides laying down their swords for the good of the family unit.

That doesn't seem possible here because one spouse wants a quiet life in a small town and the other wants to live in Manhattan with an open marriage. There is no middle ground to find. And just like in divorce where the kids are the innocents that are harmed, the people in the political middle are the ones who are gonna get screwed.

The left has never cared about democracy. Democracy is a euphemism for liberalism to them. Hence why they scream about the "threat to democracy" every time a Republican leader is democratically elected and try to shut down speech of everyone they disagree with.

Democracy is akin to racism for them. They have no clue what it actually means or how it applies to modern society, but they'll scream about it and use it as a cudgel to push forward their political agenda.

Maybe the younger generation believes supreme executive power is derived from some farcical aquatic ceremony where a watery tart throws a sword at you

tysker said:

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Maybe the younger generation believes supreme executive power is derived from some farcical aquatic ceremony where a watery tart throws a sword at you

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That's looking pretty good right now.

Ppl have been saying this since forever

Neehau said:

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Waffledynamics said:

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Criticize your own side, OP.

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The whole article is a criticism of students on the left.

Read, become informed and then comment.

Its easier that way.

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I did, and it is a very good article. I want you to criticize your own side yourself, in your own words. Your original post shows no introspection, only a point of your finger at the right.

Waffledynamics said:

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Neehau said:

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Waffledynamics said:

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Criticize your own side, OP.

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The whole article is a criticism of students on the left.

Read, become informed and then comment.

Its easier that way.

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I did, and it is a very good article. I want you to criticize your own side yourself, in your own words. Your original post shows no introspection, only a point of your finger at the right.

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I dont agree with censorship of free speech of any kind. I am against forcefully shutting down thoughtful inquiry. I am against universities being anythung but an open location for the exchange of ideas.

I support what the ACLU used to be....a group of primarily Jewish lawyers fighting for the right of the US Nazi Party to peacefully assemble and march....regardless of how reprehensible I personally think their beliefs are.

The left is going too far. However, so is the far right.

Neehau said:

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Waffledynamics said:

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Criticize your own side, OP.

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The whole article is a criticism of students on the left.

Read, become informed and then comment.

Its easier that way.

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His comment had nothing to do with the article and everything to do with the OP trying to drag the right in to the trash with him...

ChemEAg08 said:

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We're not a democracy. We are a constitutional republic.

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"I pledge allegiance to the flag, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands…"

I always ask people "what sort of gov't are we?" They say "a Democracy" and I say "say the pledge of allegiance", when their eyes get big, I then talk about Plato's Republic.

Democracies are BAD. They lead to dictatorship every time. Only fools buy the democracy BS. Or as i call them democrazies.

Waffledynamics said:

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Neehau said:

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Waffledynamics said:

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Criticize your own side, OP.

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The whole article is a criticism of students on the left.

Read, become informed and then comment.

Its easier that way.

---

I did, and it is a very good article. I want you to criticize your own side yourself, in your own words. Your original post shows no introspection, only a point of your finger at the right.

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Done....or rather your false perception of my political beliefs.

I find it highly unlikely you can do the same,

96AgGrad said:

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Both the left and the right absolutely have terrible news sources which bias people, but only one side is trying to completely change the country into something its founders wouldn't recognize, so motivation and context is important.

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only the left is using the government illegally to destroy the other side.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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96AgGrad said:

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Both the left and the right absolutely have terrible news sources which bias people, but only one side is trying to completely change the country into something its founders wouldn't recognize, so motivation and context is important.

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only the left is using the government illegally to destroy the other side.

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Come on now...Trump didn't try to use the IRS and FBI to do the same? I get when people tell leftist posters here to comment on the negatives of their party first...but can we not at least admit the same? I'm not saying the degrees of the weaponization are/were the same...but the fact remains both have tried to weaponize some of the alphabet agencies.

It's always funny to see the rationalization on these threads. There is no equivocation between patriots and leftists.

One will shoot political opponents in the back of the head for the party, the other will die for the leftist fools right to spout his totalitarian filth.

Neehau said:

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Waffledynamics said:

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Criticize your own side, OP.

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The whole article is a criticism of students on the left.

Read, become informed and then comment.

Its easier that way.

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Sorry, based on your posting history I didn't click the link.

Become informed of the Truth, speak the Truth, and maybe people will read.

Not just young people. I see a lot of old farts like Schumer, Pelosi, Waters, Biden doing a damn good job of destroying this country.

ChemEAg08 said:

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We're not a democracy. We are a constitutional republic.

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This is such an eggheaded way to talk about government. If democracy requires that absolutely everything the government does is purely and simply majoritarian, then there is no country with a democratic form of government on the planet. How would that even work? You hold an election with universal suffrage to make every single decision?

Your way makes "democracy" a concept that has absolutely no real world application, a word describing something that doesn't exist. That's ridiculous, of course a constitutional republic with some form of elected representation can accurately be called a democratic form of government. The US is a democracy. India is a democracy. The UK is a democracy. Japan is a democracy. France is a democracy. Australia is a democracy. South Korea is a democracy. Both in the way a layperson would use the term and as it is used in academic literature. There isn't some universally agreed upon definition or measure of what is or isn't a democracy, but it's definitely not as rigid and exclusive of every real world example as the WELL ACKSHUALLY IT'S A REPUBLIC contrarians want it to be.

Bear in mind there are around 10 countries in the world that don't claim to be democracies. Obviously some of those claims are much weaker than others, but it's awfully hard to reconcile that fact with "democracy means this one thing that is not a real thing, and only that."

The term "democracy" carries a slightly different definition, in that a true democracy is "majority rules, to hell basically with the minority". So no, the US is not a democracy.

It is accurate to say that we have democratic principals in our representative republic (or constitutional republic). We are not strictly a republic, either.

The state of American politics today reminds me of Weimar Germany in the late 20's & early 30's. The far ends of the spectrum are the people driving the political discussion, they absolutely detest each other and make no attempt to compromise because each side is sure that the fate of the country is hanging by a thread and only they can save it. The middle is generally not interested in either side but are left without much in the way of options and so would rather distract themselves with their cell phones

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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The term "democracy" carries a slightly different definition, in that a true democracy is "majority rules, to hell basically with the minority". So no, the US is not a democracy.

It is accurate to say that we have democratic principals in our representative republic (or constitutional republic). We are not strictly a republic, either.

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Name a country that is a "true democracy" then.

pagerman @ work said:

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The state of American politics today reminds me of Weimar Germany in the late 20's & early 30's. The far ends of the spectrum are the people driving the political discussion, they absolutely detest each other and make no attempt to compromise because each side is sure that the fate of the country is hanging by a thread and only they can save it. The middle is generally not interested in either side but are left without much in the way of options and so would rather distract themselves with their cell phones

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Sooo wrong. Germans in late 20s 30s were fighting between two left leaning totalitarian ideologies. The middle were a bunch of sheep who had no history of liberty.

It is nothing like the US patriots vs the CommieNazis that is going on today. What we are doing today is the political equivalent of Allies vs Axis.

Keep doing your equivocation to rationalize your voting. You will be proven wrong when the left wins and history repeats.

BluHorseShu said:

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Come on now...Trump didn't try to use the IRS and FBI to do the same? I get when people tell leftist posters here to comment on the negatives of their party first...but can we not at least admit the same?

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What the **** are you taking about?! No.

You're making **** up.

Not this false equivalency bull**** again.

Your side gets angry because we want to keep men out of girls' locker rooms.
Our side gets angry because you're trying to put predators in our daughters' changing rooms.

Our anger is just. Your side's is not. It isn't time for "us all to cool things down." It's time for the left to stop being satanic pawns.

Stressboy said:

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pagerman @ work said:

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The state of American politics today reminds me of Weimar Germany in the late 20's & early 30's. The far ends of the spectrum are the people driving the political discussion, they absolutely detest each other and make no attempt to compromise because each side is sure that the fate of the country is hanging by a thread and only they can save it. The middle is generally not interested in either side but are left without much in the way of options and so would rather distract themselves with their cell phones

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Sooo wrong. Germans in late 20s 30s were fighting between two left leaning totalitarian ideologies. The middle were a bunch of sheep who had no history of liberty.

It is nothing like the US patriots vs the CommieNazis that is going on today. What we are doing today is the political equivalent of Allies vs Axis.

Keep doing your equivocation to rationalize your voting. You will be proven wrong when the left wins and history repeats.

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You are fundamentally misunderstanding what I said. I said nothing about right or left. I am more than aware that both the communists and the nazis were leftist organizations. That's not the point. They were the two largest energized parties and they were diametrically opposed to the other's existence. The soft middle (Social Democrats), while generally larger that the nazis or the communists were not nearly as energized and were not driving the debate/discussion, and there was a large degree of dissatisfaction with the democracy of Weimar Germany.

Also, the left/right distinctions of European politics don't compare easily to the left/right of American politics. What is considered the right in Europe is nothing like the right in the US.

The comparison is not to say that the dems are the communists and the republicans are the nazis.

BluHorseShu said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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96AgGrad said:

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Both the left and the right absolutely have terrible news sources which bias people, but only one side is trying to completely change the country into something its founders wouldn't recognize, so motivation and context is important.

---

only the left is using the government illegally to destroy the other side.

---

Come on now...Trump didn't try to use the IRS and FBI to do the same? I get when people tell leftist posters here to comment on the negatives of their party first...but can we not at least admit the same? I'm not saying the degrees of the weaponization are/were the same...but the fact remains both have tried to weaponize some of the alphabet agencies.

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Wait...

You mean the FBI that lied to the FISA court and tapped his campaign, and opened numerous investigations into his administration?

Apparently he didn't do well trying that, did he?

And when/how did he use the IRS?

Neehau said:

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Relevant Article

Quote:

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Too many candidates and political operatives have concluded often for good short-term practical reasons that the only way to unite the base voters in each party is to feed them a steady diet of vitriol, reminding them relentlessly of what they hate about the other side. They can't agree on their own priorities or solutions, and they think their party colleagues are mediocre, but they know the other side is worse.

The end political power justifies these unpleasant means, for far too many. It's no surprise that more than a third of the American electorate now votes to oppose the candidates they dislike, rather than to support candidates they want to win. These aggressive, unapologetic efforts at dehumanization, delegitimization and destruction of the "other" group this phenomenon is what's breaking down our democracy.

---

I think the points of this article apply to the far right as well. Their information conduit is discreditable and silly news sources selling lies to feed their narrative as opposed to the University setting.

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The "far right" does not need whatever discreditable or silly news sources selling "lies" to know how the left operates for conservatives see the truth and the consequences of the far left every day on the MSM.

One just has to look at the Democratically run cities and crime, the border, the economy, and finally the intolerance of the left,

Neehau said:

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Waffledynamics said:

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Neehau said:

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Waffledynamics said:

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Criticize your own side, OP.

---

The whole article is a criticism of students on the left.

Read, become informed and then comment.

Its easier that way.

---

I did, and it is a very good article. I want you to criticize your own side yourself, in your own words. Your original post shows no introspection, only a point of your finger at the right.

---

Done....or rather your false perception of my political beliefs.

I find it highly unlikely you can do the same,

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I'm persona non grata for some of the people on this board for my strong support of Ukraine and criticism of the religious right. I think I've got it covered.

The lines have been clearly drawn.
1. Activist Marxists (far left)
2. Moderate Democrats and Republicans (left)
3. Conservatives (right)