Sutherland Springs victims say they've reached $144.5M settlement with DOJ

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WASHINGTON The victims of the 2017 mass shooting at a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, in which 26 were killed, have reached a "tentative agreement" with the Justice Department to settle a case against the federal government for $144.5 million.

The agreement has to be approved by Attorney General Merrick Garland's office, the victims' lawyers said in a statement. If given approval, which is expected, it would end a yearslong legal battle over a federal judge's ruling that the U.S. government bears some responsibility for the attack because it failed to submit the shooter's criminal history into a database that would have prevented him from purchasing firearms.

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Now this...THIS IS THE BEST FREAKING PART!!!

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Lawyers for the government argued in court that even if the Air Force which did not report Kelley's 2012 arrest and court-martial for domestic violence to the FBI had followed the law, he would have found another way to acquire a gun to commit the same act, according to court transcripts.

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So even if the businesses and people follow the law and prevent someone from acquiring a firearm, they'll find another way to commit the same act???

Lawyers call that "using an argument as both a shield and a sword," and it always gets called out as disingenuous.

Government admits government gun control laws don't work

Irish 2.0 said:

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Lawyers for the government argued in court that even if the Air Force which did not report Kelley's 2012 arrest and court-martial for domestic violence to the FBI had followed the law, he would have found another way to acquire a gun to commit the same act, according to court transcripts.

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This is my shocked face.

Never trust your government.

Stop licensing your freedoms to goons and ghouls.

But progressives will still believe that somehow removing guns from law-abiding citizens will stop criminals.

Man, I have zero recollection of this event.

Regardless, the government is not your friend.

YouBet said:

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Man, I have zero recollection of this event.

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Really? In 2017, 26 killed. 5th deadliest mass shooting in the US. Deadliest in Texas.

The feds know the truth, they just ignore it until it suits them.

This statement will be memory holed in short order and they'll go back to fighting for stricter gun laws.

Nattie said:

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YouBet said:

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Man, I have zero recollection of this event.

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Really? In 2017, 26 killed. 5th deadliest mass shooting in the US. Deadliest in Texas.

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I really don't. I'm surprised as you are.

Iirc, this is the one where local folks shot and then chased this guy down after he'd massacred Christians attending church service.

Nattie said:

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YouBet said:

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Man, I have zero recollection of this event.

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Really? In 2017, 26 killed. 5th deadliest mass shooting in the US. Deadliest in Texas.

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If I recall correctly the slaughter was stopped by a citizen with an AR-15.

And Dems/Libs criticized him for owning one and putting an end to the slaughter. Tells you all you need to know about Dems/Libs true intentions.

YouBet said:

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Man, I have zero recollection of this event.

Regardless, the government is not your friend.

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It got memory holed by the government and media because a good guy with a gun (an AR) shot and killed the murdering POS.

Irish 2.0 said:

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YouBet said:

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Man, I have zero recollection of this event.

Regardless, the government is not your friend.

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It got memory holed by the government and media because a good guy with a gun (an AR) shot and killed the murdering POS.

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Same government trying to paint the Tennessee chick as a victim.

Old May Banker said:

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Iirc, this is the one where local folks shot and then chased this guy down after he'd massacred Christians attending church service.

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Interesting. Zero memory of this.

Irish probably nailed it. It was memory holed.

Fed govt admitting gun laws don't work but we definitely need more of them because guns are scary and dangerous!!

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If I recall correctly the slaughter was stopped by a citizen with an AR-15.

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Yes he is a former firearms instructor. Sad day. My family home is less than a quarter mile down the road from this church. My parents would pass that church every time they ran errands.

Maroon Dawn said:

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Government admits government gun control laws don't work

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Bitter irony.
They have always known this. The Democratic Party Leadership only uses that argument for political gains and knowingly advocate this to lure an emotional response from their constituents. It is their stated policy to never let a crisis go to waste and they follow this religiously.

YouBet said:

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Old May Banker said:

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Iirc, this is the one where local folks shot and then chased this guy down after he'd massacred Christians attending church service.

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Interesting. Zero memory of this.

Irish probably nailed it. It was memory holed.

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Bizarre. It was huge news, not sure how anyone can have zero recollection.

Geddy Lee soul patch said:

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YouBet said:

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Old May Banker said:

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Iirc, this is the one where local folks shot and then chased this guy down after he'd massacred Christians attending church service.

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Interesting. Zero memory of this.

Irish probably nailed it. It was memory holed.

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Bizarre. It was huge news, not sure how anyone can have zero recollection.

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Yeah, I don't know what to tell you.

CDUB98 said:

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But progressives will still believe that somehow removing guns from law-abiding citizens will stop criminals.

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TAF was arguing just that this morning in the most condescending way possible. Added some blasphemy in his argument too for good measure.

I have no memory of this at all. Seems like I would have remembered this many dying.

Irish 2.0 said:

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Now this...THIS IS THE BEST FREAKING PART!!!

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Lawyers for the government argued in court that even if the Air Force which did not report Kelley's 2012 arrest and court-martial for domestic violence to the FBI had followed the law, he would have found another way to acquire a gun to commit the same act, according to court transcripts.

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The anti-gun crowd would simply say this is why all guns must be outlawed and confiscated. Then he couldn't get one at all.

Slicer97 said:

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Irish 2.0 said:

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Lawyers for the government argued in court that even if the Air Force which did not report Kelley's 2012 arrest and court-martial for domestic violence to the FBI had followed the law, he would have found another way to acquire a gun to commit the same act, according to court transcripts.

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This is my shocked face.

Never trust your government.

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Exactly. The Feds did the same thing with Obamacare. The Dems in Congress repeatedly stated that the penalty for not having insurance wasn't a tax. Then the DOJ argued in front of the Supreme Court successfully that it was a tax.

The Green Dragon said:

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I have no memory of this at all. Seems like I would have remembered this many dying.

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Sutherland Springs shooting

I don't see how this can be forgotten about, but whatever.

Guy that was in the air force goes to Academy and buys an AR style rifle. Goes to the church his wife/ex wife (can't remember) goes to and starts shooting people left and right. Guy across the street hears the shooting, grabs his AR and puts a round in the BG, they then chase him for a few miles before he finally dies from the shot the good guy put in him. (May not be the exact sequence, but close enough).

Turns out that the shooter had a criminal history in the Air Force and that the government was too lazy/stupid/apathetic to follow their own damned laws and regulations and didn't bother to enter that criminal history into the NCIS database. Which is what Academy, who is an FFL, is required by law to use to give the green or red light on a purchase. And since the feds didn't follow their own fuggin laws, there was nothing that showed the shooter had a criminal history that would have precluded him from legally buying a firearm.

Goes to show that the feds firmly believe in "do as I say, not as I do". And their laziness and unwillingness to follow their own laws directly contributed to 26 people being senselessly killed while at church. Also helped push clarification on legislation in Texas that CCW or OC at church isn't illegal and is up to the specific church governing body to determine if they allow it or not.

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Lawyers for the government argued in court that even if the Air Force which did not report Kelley's 2012 arrest and court-martial for domestic violence to the FBI had followed the law, he would have found another way to acquire a gun to commit the same act, according to court transcripts.

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Lawyers for the government trying to get their bosses off the hook for negligence.

It's a felony for a person who is prohibited from buying a gun to attempt to do so. If he had been on the list & tried to buy one, he should have been reported & arrested, right?

I vaguely remember this.
I remember it was stopped by someone with a gun and they chased him down.
I remember that the bad guy was discharged from the Air Force for violence but it wasn't reported for whatever reason which would have prevented him from purchasing the gun he used. However I don't recall hearing anything about this since it happened. It didn't fit the anti-gun narrative because a good guy with a gun killed the bad guy, and the existing gun laws should have prevented the bad guy from legally purchasing the gun. It was memory-holed.

My memory is also hindered by the similarity of another church shooting that I believe occurred shortly after this one. The bad guy with a gun came into the sanctuary and fired off a few rounds when a good guy with a concealed handgun, and incredible proficiency, immediately eliminated the bad guy. His shooting spree only lasted a few seconds but I think he did manage to shoot a few people in that time. I believe the good guy was a retired police office or police chief. I don't recall hearing anything about this event since then either. Good guy with a gun kills bad guy with a gun seconds after shooting starts, saving countless lives. It was memory-holed too.

Both of those events got lots of coverage at the time but very little since. Six years is a lot of time and it's hard to recall an event from that long ago that didn't directly affect you and hasn't been been brought up to remind you.

I remember sitting in church after these events playing through scenarios in my mind about what I would do if some guy came into the sanctuary and started shooting people. Without a gun you would just have to rush the guy to hopefully take him down or at least distract him so others could escape, but you would probably get shot and killed in the process. Horrific situation. You hope that one of the good guys has a gun and the ability to drop the bad guy like the other church shooting event I mentioned.

Too bad the taxpayers have to cover this.
The AF effed up bad.
Too bad the (censored) in charge of that cannot be publicly flogged.


I visited the memorial chapel twice. Each time found it very moving and emotional.

Rapier108 said:

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Irish 2.0 said:

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Now this...THIS IS THE BEST FREAKING PART!!!

Quote:

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Lawyers for the government argued in court that even if the Air Force which did not report Kelley's 2012 arrest and court-martial for domestic violence to the FBI had followed the law, he would have found another way to acquire a gun to commit the same act, according to court transcripts.

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The anti-gun crowd would simply say this is why all guns must be outlawed and confiscated. Then he couldn't get one at all.

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That is their goal, and the only way to reach their idea of utopia in their mind.

Jason C. said:

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Lawyers call that "using an argument as both a shield and a sword," and it always gets called out as disingenuous.

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It is not disingenuous, it is true.

YouBet said:

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Man, I have zero recollection of this event.

Regardless, the government is not your friend.

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It got memory holed by the media because a private citizen armed with an AR-15 shot the shooter as he exited the church and then pursued the shooter until he crashed and shot himself. They HATE when somebody besides the police bags a mass shooter using a legally owned weapon...particularly when it is an AR.

Apache said:

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Lawyers for the government argued in court that even if the Air Force which did not report Kelley's 2012 arrest and court-martial for domestic violence to the FBI had followed the law, he would have found another way to acquire a gun to commit the same act, according to court transcripts.

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Lawyers for the government trying to get their bosses off the hook for negligence.

It's a felony for a person who is prohibited from buying a gun to attempt to do so. If he had been on the list & tried to buy one, he should have been reported & arrested, right?

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Yep. Just like when somebody like Hunter Biden lies on a form to buy a weapon. And DOJ almost never prosecutes people for doing it, even though they have a sworn signature from the person breaking the law,

txags92 said:

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YouBet said:

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Man, I have zero recollection of this event.

Regardless, the government is not your friend.

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It got memory holed by the media because a private citizen armed with an AR-15 shot the shooter as he exited the church and then pursued the shooter until he crashed and shot himself. They HATE when somebody besides the police bags a mass shooter using a legally owned weapon...particularly when it is an AR.

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Clearly.

This shooting is what convinced me to start carrying in church, even though I'm not supposed to. 26 people were slaughtered, without the ability to defend themselves. I wasn't going to let that happen to my family.

There has been a couple of times while in church I have been very uneasy about the situation, but luckily both times nothing ever came of it. One person was clearly on who knows what, and fairly unhinged. A buddy who was a cop (also armed), decided to put himself close to the guy just in case. Another time, was attending a black church and there was a white guy, all tatted up, looked completely out of place. He didn't really take part in prayers, looked angry (had a red face, but in hindsight may have just been hungover), and sat by himself in the back. I watched him the entire service. The next week we found out he was just there to get a feel for the sound system, as he was supposed to upgrade it.

Again, luckily I've never had something actually happen, but I will continue to be vigilant. Those circumstances convinced my wife that I was right to carry, even though both turned out to be nothing.