Hurray for the children!

BREAKING: Florida Senate passes six-week abortion ban

It provides exceptions for rape, incest and human trafficking up to 15 weeks

— Florida’s Voice (@FLVoiceNews) April 3, 2023

I'm pro-choice, but this isn't terrible IMHO.

GeorgiAg said:

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I'm pro-choice, but this isn't terrible IMHO.

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Honest question.

Isn't pro choice really just pro abortion? Why can't someone say they are pro abortion? Because if someone has a choice to have an abortion or not, it is really anti-abortion or pro-abortion but maybe with some asterisks?

will25u said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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I'm pro-choice, but this isn't terrible IMHO.

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Honest question.

Isn't pro choice really just pro abortion? Why can't someone say they are pro abortion? Because if someone has a choice to have an abortion or not, it is really anti-abortion or pro-abortion but maybe with some asterisks?

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Growing up, I never was faced with this with me or anyone I knew. I'd like to think I'd have made the decision to have the child.

I'm not pro-abortion. It's a grotesque practice IMHO, so is euthanasia but for someone that has horrible pain and poor quality of life, I think they ought to make their own decision.

I had a two-day deposition of a guy with mesothelioma with about 20 laywers. Day one was discovery deposition and day two was going to be recorded for-use for the jury. Dude blew his head off with a shotgun after day 1. Can't say I blame him.

will25u said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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I'm pro-choice, but this isn't terrible IMHO.

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Honest question.

Isn't pro choice really just pro abortion? Why can't someone say they are pro abortion? Because if someone has a choice to have an abortion or not, it is really anti-abortion or pro-abortion but maybe with some asterisks?

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Or equally its pro-choice with some asterisks.

I consider my personal view to be pro-life and my political view to be pro-choice. Many folks, particularly on f16, have a HUGE problem with that sort of concept.

I need to read the actual details of the Florida bill, but on the surface it seems to be attempting some reasonable compromise on the issue.

At some point there is a matter of personal responsibility and having to answer to a higher power one day.

will25u said:

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Hurray for the children!

BREAKING: Florida Senate passes six-week abortion ban

It provides exceptions for rape, incest and human trafficking up to 15 weeks

— Florida’s Voice (@FLVoiceNews) April 3, 2023

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Women still have 6 weeks to get an abortion if they want one plus there's exceptions for rape, incest, and human trafficking. Well done.

Another post from Florida Ags

GeorgiAg said:

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will25u said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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I'm pro-choice, but this isn't terrible IMHO.

---

Honest question.

Isn't pro choice really just pro abortion? Why can't someone say they are pro abortion? Because if someone has a choice to have an abortion or not, it is really anti-abortion or pro-abortion but maybe with some asterisks?

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Growing up, I never was faced with this with me or anyone I knew. I'd like to think I'd have made the decision to have the child.

I'm not pro-abortion. It's a grotesque practice IMHO, so is euthanasia but for someone that has horrible pain and poor quality of life, I think they ought to make their own decision.

I had a two-day deposition of a guy with mesothelioma with about 20 laywers. Day one was discovery deposition and day two was going to be recorded for-use for the jury. Dude blew his head off with a shotgun after day 1. Can't say I blame him.

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If someone doesn't want to attain the condition where an abortion is an option, then don't partake in an act that might get the person that condition. Half of all abortions are that person's second, or more.


Quit whooring around and you won't have a baby to murder in the first place.

will25u said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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I'm pro-choice, but this isn't terrible IMHO.

---

Honest question.

Isn't pro choice really just pro abortion? Why can't someone say they are pro abortion? Because if someone has a choice to have an abortion or not, it is really anti-abortion or pro-abortion but maybe with some asterisks?

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It's pro-abortion, they just don't want to say the word.

will25u said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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I'm pro-choice, but this isn't terrible IMHO.

---

Honest question.

Isn't pro choice really just pro abortion? Why can't someone say they are pro abortion? Because if someone has a choice to have an abortion or not, it is really anti-abortion or pro-abortion but maybe with some asterisks?

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Not really. I'm pro-choice but think abortion are lazy, irresponsible, and trashy.

BigRobSA said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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will25u said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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I'm pro-choice, but this isn't terrible IMHO.

---

Honest question.

Isn't pro choice really just pro abortion? Why can't someone say they are pro abortion? Because if someone has a choice to have an abortion or not, it is really anti-abortion or pro-abortion but maybe with some asterisks?

---

Growing up, I never was faced with this with me or anyone I knew. I'd like to think I'd have made the decision to have the child.

I'm not pro-abortion. It's a grotesque practice IMHO, so is euthanasia but for someone that has horrible pain and poor quality of life, I think they ought to make their own decision.

I had a two-day deposition of a guy with mesothelioma with about 20 laywers. Day one was discovery deposition and day two was going to be recorded for-use for the jury. Dude blew his head off with a shotgun after day 1. Can't say I blame him.

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If someone doesn't want to attain the condition where an abortion is an option, then don't partake in an act that might get the person that condition. Half of all abortions are that person's second, or more.


Quit whooring around and you won't have a baby to murder in the first place.

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But sex with lots of people is fun

6 weeks too late, with too many exceptions, but it moves the football forward.

Teslag said:

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BigRobSA said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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will25u said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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I'm pro-choice, but this isn't terrible IMHO.

---

Honest question.

Isn't pro choice really just pro abortion? Why can't someone say they are pro abortion? Because if someone has a choice to have an abortion or not, it is really anti-abortion or pro-abortion but maybe with some asterisks?

---

Growing up, I never was faced with this with me or anyone I knew. I'd like to think I'd have made the decision to have the child.

I'm not pro-abortion. It's a grotesque practice IMHO, so is euthanasia but for someone that has horrible pain and poor quality of life, I think they ought to make their own decision.

I had a two-day deposition of a guy with mesothelioma with about 20 laywers. Day one was discovery deposition and day two was going to be recorded for-use for the jury. Dude blew his head off with a shotgun after day 1. Can't say I blame him.

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If someone doesn't want to attain the condition where an abortion is an option, then don't partake in an act that might get the person that condition. Half of all abortions are that person's second, or more.


Quit whooring around and you won't have a baby to murder in the first place.

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But sex with lots of people is fun

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In the immortal words of The Offspring:

Quote:

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Now I'll relate this little bit
It happens more than I'd like to admit
Late at night, she knocks on my door
[url=https://genius.com/2084811/The-offspring-self-esteem/Shes-drunk-again-and-looking-to-score-pre-chorus-oh-i-know-i-should-say-no-but-its-kind-of-hard-when-shes-ready-to-go]She's drunk again and looking to score

[Pre-Chorus]
Oh, I know I should say no
But it's kind of hard when she's ready to go[/url]
I may be dumb, but I'm not a dweeb
I'm just a sucker with no self-esteem

---

I had a couple chicks knock on the door at TAMU late on a Saturday night.

it's kind of hard when she's ready to go....

I don't understand the logic for those that support this bill with the exceptions. What is your reason for not wanting abortion. If your reason is a belief in the dignity of all human life, why does that exclude those created as a result of rape, etc.?

fka ftc said:

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will25u said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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I'm pro-choice, but this isn't terrible IMHO.

---

Honest question.

Isn't pro choice really just pro abortion? Why can't someone say they are pro abortion? Because if someone has a choice to have an abortion or not, it is really anti-abortion or pro-abortion but maybe with some asterisks?

---

Or equally its pro-choice with some asterisks.

I consider my personal view to be pro-life and my political view to be pro-choice. Many folks, particularly on f16, have a HUGE problem with that sort of concept.

I need to read the actual details of the Florida bill, but on the surface it seems to be attempting some reasonable compromise on the issue.

At some point there is a matter of personal responsibility and having to answer to a higher power one day.

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Many have a huge problem with that concept because it appears to be simple cowardice. You personally think it's wrong to kill that baby, but you won't stand up for it because it's socially/politically inconvenient.

Seems to me it would be more consistent the other way around. Politically pro-life because it's the moral thing to do, but personally you may not give two ****s about some stranger you don't know nor care about practicing some natural selection.

Me and the wife just found out she is pregnant. We were in the Drs office at 6 weeks and a "heartbeat"(not an actual heart yet, but electrical signals) could be detected and we saw it on the monitor. Not as a flutter, but as electrical signals.

I'm kinda wishy-washy on the subject.

I think up until 8 weeks is OK. Not a preference, but OK. But after that is ridiculous, especially since Democrats just say a woman can say they don't want it and have no other issues and the baby can be killed up until the moment of birth.

I have some pretty devout Christian friends that are taking it to the extreme.

My friends had IVF done and had a perfect little girl. When you have IVF done they preserve some fertilized eggs in case the first go didn't work. Sooo... My friends say that since the egg is fertilized they must do the right Christian thing and try for another baby because it is a life.

I think that is a little extreme, but to each their own.

Muktheduck said:

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fka ftc said:

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will25u said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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I'm pro-choice, but this isn't terrible IMHO.

---

Honest question.

Isn't pro choice really just pro abortion? Why can't someone say they are pro abortion? Because if someone has a choice to have an abortion or not, it is really anti-abortion or pro-abortion but maybe with some asterisks?

---

Or equally its pro-choice with some asterisks.

I consider my personal view to be pro-life and my political view to be pro-choice. Many folks, particularly on f16, have a HUGE problem with that sort of concept.

I need to read the actual details of the Florida bill, but on the surface it seems to be attempting some reasonable compromise on the issue.

At some point there is a matter of personal responsibility and having to answer to a higher power one day.

---

Many have a huge problem with that concept because it appears to be simple cowardice. You personally think it's wrong to kill that baby, but you won't stand up for it because it's socially/politically inconvenient.

Seems to me it would be more consistent the other way around. Politically pro-life because it's the moral thing to do, but personally you may not give two ****s about some stranger you don't know nor care about practicing some natural selection.

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Got it. I appear to be just a weak coward.

Did you gloss over the part where I said the Florida law appeared to be a good compromise? So you saying I would not personally stand up for limitations on abortion is just simply wrong and you should reconsider whether your criticism is just.

If you want to look at it they way you put forth in your second paragraph. okay. But its not a correct assessment of what I said nor how I believe. Politically, as in the true sense that we elect politicians to govern, create / make / change / repeal laws of the United States, means I support a compromise on the topic that allows for abortion with limitations and exceptions consistent with the Florida proposed law.

Though never faced personally with the decision, I do not think I would decide to terminate a pregnancy. I am a man who has never made that decision and by exclusion have never been a woman faced with that circumstance nor decision. It would be dishonest for me to make a claim to decide one way or another when I have never made that decision.

As I said, folks may not like that position nor agree with it. But to say someone is a coward is a bit much, no?

will25u said:

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Me and the wife just found out she is pregnant. We were in the Drs office at 6 weeks and a "heartbeat"(not an actual heart yet, but electrical signals) could be detected and we saw it on the monitor. Not as a flutter, but as electrical signals.

I'm kinda wishy-washy on the subject.

I think up until 8 weeks is OK. Not a preference, but OK. But after that is ridiculous, especially since Democrats just say a woman can say they don't want it and have no other issues and the baby can be killed up until the moment of birth.

I have some pretty devout Christian friends that are taking it to the extreme.

My friends had IVF done and had a perfect little girl. When you have IVF done they preserve some fertilized eggs in case the first go didn't work. Sooo... My friends say that since the egg is fertilized they must do the right Christian thing and try for another baby because it is a life.

I think that is a little extreme, but to each their own.

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You are brave in posting your true feelings on the matter. As you know, such things are not always well received around here particularly on this topic.

My wife and I went through multiple rounds of IVF. We have a perfect 13yo son that God blessed us with during that process. We decided to try for more and after multiple failed attempts and miscarriages, the last of which took the better part of the year to fully resolve, we decided to abandoned the remaining embryos.

I would take great exception to anyone who claimed to be Christian and told me and my wife we did the wrong thing with the remaining embryos.

You Christian friends who say such things may not be as "Christian" as they claim.

Looking forward to the calls for shutting down IVF clinics, since many more children (fertilized eggs) are murdered there than in any abortion clinic.

WaltonAg18 said:

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Looking forward to the calls for shutting down IVF clinics, since many more children (fertilized eggs) are murdered there than in any abortion clinic.

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I can't put my finger on it... but I feel like you are piling on about what I just wrote about.

fka ftc said:

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will25u said:

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Me and the wife just found out she is pregnant. We were in the Drs office at 6 weeks and a "heartbeat"(not an actual heart yet, but electrical signals) could be detected and we saw it on the monitor. Not as a flutter, but as electrical signals.

I'm kinda wishy-washy on the subject.

I think up until 8 weeks is OK. Not a preference, but OK. But after that is ridiculous, especially since Democrats just say a woman can say they don't want it and have no other issues and the baby can be killed up until the moment of birth.

I have some pretty devout Christian friends that are taking it to the extreme.

My friends had IVF done and had a perfect little girl. When you have IVF done they preserve some fertilized eggs in case the first go didn't work. Sooo... My friends say that since the egg is fertilized they must do the right Christian thing and try for another baby because it is a life.

I think that is a little extreme, but to each their own.

---

You are brave in posting your true feelings on the matter. As you know, such things are not always well received around here particularly on this topic.

My wife and I went through multiple rounds of IVF. We have a perfect 13yo son that God blessed us with during that process. We decided to try for more and after multiple failed attempts and miscarriages, the last of which took the better part of the year to fully resolve, we decided to abandoned the remaining embryos.

I would take great exception to anyone who claimed to be Christian and told me and my wife we did the wrong thing with the remaining embryos.

You Christian friends who say such things may not be as "Christian" as they claim.

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If life begins at conception, you made the choice to rob those fertilized eggs of a chance at life. Their blood is on your hands.

I bet this thread will result in a lot of changed opinions and understanding of each other's viewpoints.

what is 6 weeks? from conception? from LMP?

Yes.. That is how they calculate it. Last menstrual cycle.

WaltonAg18 said:

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Looking forward to the calls for shutting down IVF clinics, since many more children (fertilized eggs) are murdered there than in any abortion clinic.

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Shut down IVF clinics.

I'm strong pro-life with only an exception to protect the mother's life, but this FL bill is probably about where it needs to land to achieve some kind of compromise that all sides are less than satisfied with but get about 75% of what each side wants.

Full abortion on demand up to birth, or absolutely zero won't last very long in law. The other side will force it away from either end of the spectrum.

Welp. Good start I guess.

WaltonAg18 said:

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If life begins at conception, you made the choice to rob those fertilized eggs of a chance at life. Their blood is on your hands.

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That's a bit over the top, even for f16.

But if you truly feel that way, go for it.

If you ever found yourself in my personal presence or that of my wife, I would urge you to keep this particular opinion for yourself.

Utterly disgusting post.

WaltonAg18 said:

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fka ftc said:

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will25u said:

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Me and the wife just found out she is pregnant. We were in the Drs office at 6 weeks and a "heartbeat"(not an actual heart yet, but electrical signals) could be detected and we saw it on the monitor. Not as a flutter, but as electrical signals.

I'm kinda wishy-washy on the subject.

I think up until 8 weeks is OK. Not a preference, but OK. But after that is ridiculous, especially since Democrats just say a woman can say they don't want it and have no other issues and the baby can be killed up until the moment of birth.

I have some pretty devout Christian friends that are taking it to the extreme.

My friends had IVF done and had a perfect little girl. When you have IVF done they preserve some fertilized eggs in case the first go didn't work. Sooo... My friends say that since the egg is fertilized they must do the right Christian thing and try for another baby because it is a life.

I think that is a little extreme, but to each their own.

---

You are brave in posting your true feelings on the matter. As you know, such things are not always well received around here particularly on this topic.

My wife and I went through multiple rounds of IVF. We have a perfect 13yo son that God blessed us with during that process. We decided to try for more and after multiple failed attempts and miscarriages, the last of which took the better part of the year to fully resolve, we decided to abandoned the remaining embryos.

I would take great exception to anyone who claimed to be Christian and told me and my wife we did the wrong thing with the remaining embryos.

You Christian friends who say such things may not be as "Christian" as they claim.

---

If life begins at conception, you made the choice to rob those fertilized eggs of a chance at life. Their blood is on your hands.

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If it makes you feel better, this is Catholic teaching 101.

BCO07 said:

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I don't understand the logic for those that support this bill with the exceptions. What is your reason for not wanting abortion. If your reason is a belief in the dignity of all human life, why does that exclude those created as a result of rape, etc.?

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I think it's kind of a compromise of sorts. And these scenarios make up a super duper tiny fraction of overall cases. I don't condone abortion under any circumstances other than true life of the mother (i.e. a 10 yr old girl gets impregnated)...but that being said, I have extreme sympathy for true rape victims who end up conceiving. I can't imagine what that would be like and give them a bit more of a pass than I would anyone else.

Dies Irae said:

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If it makes you feel better, this is Catholic teaching 101.

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Whole lot of Catholics, particular Biden, Pelosi, and the Pope seem to not believe this.

As much as I feel for the actual people that get pregnant as a result of rape, I can only think that clause is going to be abused....imagine someone finding out they are pregnant at 7 weeks, going into the clinic and they say sorry we can't unless you were raped...now the deperate girl that wants to rid the baby is going to potentially claim rape against the baby daddy.

I just see a whole lot of men about to get screwed over due to this clause.

HoustonAg12 said:

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As much as I feel for the actual people that get pregnant as a result of rape, I can only think that clause is going to be abused....imagine someone finding out they are pregnant at 7 weeks, going into the clinic and they say sorry we can't unless you were raped...now the deperate girl that wants to rid the baby is going to potentially claim rape against the baby daddy.

I just see a whole lot of men about to get screwed over due to this clause.

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But you do not force true rape victims to carry the child to term because someone might abuse the exception.

will25u said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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I'm pro-choice, but this isn't terrible IMHO.

---

Honest question.

Isn't pro choice really just pro abortion? Why can't someone say they are pro abortion? Because if someone has a choice to have an abortion or not, it is really anti-abortion or pro-abortion but maybe with some asterisks?

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Everyone is pro-choice. Some choose life. If one side is pro-life, just call the other pro-death.

My pragmatic pro-life perspective:

1. We have a moral obligation to protect the vulnerable innocent.
2. All abortion is homicide.
3. Homicides can be classified as less than murder in some scenarios (ex: self defense or accidental death)
4. Juries nullification is real and the public isn't well served by laws which aren't enforced / enforceable.

Where does that leave me? I celebrate incremental wins such as this! Push the Overton Window backward for once and save babies! It has its warts (6 weeks is a mushy delineation, it isn't a natural behavior-gate, and folks will exploit the exceptions) but this is far better than the "anything goes" defacto policy in so many states.