Time for the rest of the nation to do the same. FAFO

This is long overdue and I'm not surprised that cop unions are pushing against it. Texas legislators need to act now

https://6ix.buzz/the-state-of-indiana-has-officially-permitted-the-use-of-deadly-force-on-cops-if-they-illegally-enter-your-property/

Uh....what could possibly go wrong...only an idiot would see this as a good thing, and not see it for what it is. An attack on law enforcement.

Easy, cops shouldn't worry unless they do something unlawful.

Interested to see where this thread goes. Lots of "freedom loving" "conservatives" forget that cops are literally the executive branch of the government. Cops on here tend to be lauded as selfless heroes fighting against tyranny when in fact they are part of the government that needs to be reined in

Edit - First reply took the "cops are our beloved benefactors" road

This is a terrible idea even for hedge

Cops aren't above the law, this is a good thing for all law abiding citizens

Nitro Power said:

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Uh....what could possibly go wrong...only an idiot would see this as a good thing, and not see it for what it is. An attack on law enforcement.

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Oh no, what will happen to those poor officers breaking the law and infringing on rights! Won't someone think of the jackbooted thugs?!?!

Nitro Power said:

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Uh....what could possibly go wrong...only an idiot would see this as a good thing, and not see it for what it is. An attack on law enforcement.

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How about just spending a little extra time to make sure you have the proper authority to go in guns blazing, and that you're at the actual place you're supposed to be entering.

Haven't read the article or law but if anyone breaks into your home they might get shot, police or otherwise. What does this change really? My first response is actually that if Indiana allows no knock warrants that needs to be cancelled. Needs to be canceled anyway.

If you don't like my topic you can just not read it. I think this is a legit issue given the countless deaths from no knock raids on wrong homes. Have a good day

How on earth do the occupants know whether or not the police have a valid search warrant or not?

This is idiotic. If the cops are entering unlawfully, that should be dealt with in court.

seems like the legislature could have legislated away qualified immunity and achieved similar ends in the long run

not hedge said:

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If you don't like my topic you can just not read it. I think this is a legit issue given the countless deaths from no knock raids on wrong homes. Have a good day

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I think it's a legit issue given we're supposed to be allowed to retreat into our homes in peace. Random thug breaks into your house, F16 wants him shot. Government breaks into your house, "conservatives" want you to back the blue, etc

I have zero warrants and have not done anything to break the law. So if a cop came into my place I would be within my rights to protect myself knowing I have done nothing and have nothing to hide. A criminal will Open fire regardless

What's surprising is Indiana is not a blue state or some kind of anti-cop bastion. So its a little interesting that its enough of an issue where they feel need to do this.

HTownAg98 said:

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Nitro Power said:

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Uh....what could possibly go wrong...only an idiot would see this as a good thing, and not see it for what it is. An attack on law enforcement.

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Have about just spending a little extra time to make sure you have the proper authority to go in guns blazing, and that you're at the actual place you're supposed to be entering.

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No no. It's one way or the other. Cops have full authority or you can shoot cops. That's it. Reforming laws, increasing training and putting in redundancies that would increase accuracy (even if efficiency is reduced) is not possible.

Hopefully that is sarcastic enough. Something like this should never, ever be needed. it's insanity

Tom_Fox said:

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How on earth do the occupants know whether or not the police have a valid search warrant or not?

This is idiotic. If the cops are entering unlawfully, that should be dealt with in court.

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The government should be afraid to enter your house. Getting clawbacks in court 5 years later is stupid

You didn't read the article.

The law is being justified because, "The state Supreme Court had previously ruled that citizens had no legal right to resist police officers, even in a case of unlawful entry."

If true, that's messed up.

The cops have all the advantages in these situations, including having their weapons drawn and ready to fire. Good luck putting down your Oreos and pulling up your under-roos while trying to grab your gun and shoot a cop before you meet your maker. All this will do is result in many more citizens getting shot, and cops having an itchy trigger finger when entering a home in Indiana.

If a cop enters the wrong house and shoots an innocent person, they already face legal action and can be sued in civil court, so I'm not sure what this law hopes to accomplish.

not hedge said:

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If you don't like my topic you can just not read it. I think this is a legit issue given the countless deaths from no knock raids on wrong homes. Have a good day

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"At least 22 people have been killed by police nationwide carrying out no-knock warrants since 2015, according to a Post investigation"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2022/no-knock-warrants-judges/

not hedge said:

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I have zero warrants and have not done anything to break the law. So if a cop came into my place I would be within my rights to protect myself knowing I have done nothing and have nothing to hide. A criminal will Open fire regardless

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Your knowledge does not make the search unlawful Hedge. If a judge signed a warrant based on information outside of your knowledge (ie. some infraction you are unaware of or based off of informant information), that search warrant would be lawful. And if the officers serving the warrant knock and announce and ultimately enter because you do not open the door, you should not be able to fire on them based on your "beliefs about the validity of the search."

Now if you think it is not the actual police ... that is a horse of a different color. But you better be correct.

Fireman said:

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The cops have all the advantages in these situations, including having their weapons drawn and ready to fire. Good luck putting down your Ores and pulling up your under-roos while trying to grab your gun and shoot a cop before you meet your maker. All this will do is result in many more citizens getting shot, and cops having an itchy trigger finger when entering a home in Indiana.

If a cop enters the wrong house and shoots an innocent person, they already face legal action and can be sued in civil court, so I'm not sure what this law hopes to accomplish.

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Oh good, they have free reign to murder potentially innocent civilians and the only recompense is being sued in civil court, sounds like the land of the free to me.

Then there's the poster saying "well how do you know if they have a lawful warrant or not" - fun fact, it's still infringing on your rights for police to barge in as they please. If they have a warrant, you have every right to read it and ensure it's validity.

If they actually did their jobs correctly instead of relying on piss-poor evidence and shoddy police work, this wouldn't be an issue.

Raiderjay said:

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not hedge said:

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If you don't like my topic you can just not read it. I think this is a legit issue given the countless deaths from no knock raids on wrong homes. Have a good day

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"At least 22 people have been killed by police nationwide carrying out no-knock warrants since 2015, according to a Post investigation"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2022/no-knock-warrants-judges/

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How many citizens are you okay with sacrificing?

Fireman said:

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The cops have all the advantages in these situations, including having their weapons drawn and ready to fire. Good luck putting down your Ores and pulling up your under-roos while trying to grab your gun and shoot a cop before you meet your maker. All this will do is result in many more citizens getting shot, and cops having an itchy trigger finger when entering a home in Indiana.

If a cop enters the wrong house and shoots an innocent person, they already face legal action and can be sued in civil court, so I'm not sure what this law hopes to accomplish.

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The government should be afraid to enter your house. The government should have to bend over backwards to ensure their **** is wired tight before going into anyone's house. An agent of the executive branch (a cop) on trial doesn't do enough to return the balance of power to the individual.

I seriously cannot comprehend "conservatives" on these topics. Cops are not your friend, they are the government. A critical piece of the government, and almost universally decent dudes, but still just the government. How can people say "the government has too much power" and "you shouldn't be allowed to defend yourself against the government" at the same time? This isn't saying defund the police! It's just codifying that our freaking country's founding idea is that every citizen has the inherent right to defend themselves against government overreach

I've said before regarding no-knock raids: the officials who are entrusted with powerful tools over their fellow citizens should lose them the moment they abuse them.

How's Joe T Public supposed to know that the door kicker who just burst in and started screaming is a real cop vs a cosplay-criminal? And is a right to self-defense against somehow retracted by a warrant issued in secrecy?

Nah. I'm going to err to the side of the alleged if it's the cops who escalate the violence of the confrontation.

Cops are not special. They don't get to break the law with impunity and violate a person's natural right to self defense.

Fireman said:

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The cops have all the advantages in these situations, including having their weapons drawn and ready to fire. Good luck putting down your Ores and pulling up your under-roos while trying to grab your gun and shoot a cop before you meet your maker. All this will do is result in many more citizens getting shot, and cops having an itchy trigger finger when entering a home in Indiana.

If a cop enters the wrong house and shoots an innocent person, they already face legal action and can be sued in civil court, so I'm not sure what this law hopes to accomplish.

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The law tries to make police check their work before charging in.

And it will work.

Also, LOL at civil court. I sue the cop who shot my wife and the city has to pay. This puts actual skin in the game for police. A good law.

I don't know if this is a good law or not, but I love our federal system where states get to experiment with things like this so the rest of us can see if it has some measurable effect on motivating police compliance with their constitutional obligations towards citizens. If not and it's an ess show, well, at least the other states can know what NOT to do.

WaltonAg18 said:

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Raiderjay said:

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not hedge said:

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If you don't like my topic you can just not read it. I think this is a legit issue given the countless deaths from no knock raids on wrong homes. Have a good day

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"At least 22 people have been killed by police nationwide carrying out no-knock warrants since 2015, according to a Post investigation"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2022/no-knock-warrants-judges/

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How many citizens are you okay with sacrificing?

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Did I say I am ok with sacrificing any citizens????? He said "countless", I just provided facts.....

Let's go full-on Waco instead of arresting the bad guy when he's pumping gas at the local Wag-a-bag.

This is actually a really interesting thread in the bedfellows it exposes. Unlike the team positioning in so much of modern politics, the lines are slicing aren't clean red v blue.

When cops are tatted up like hood rats, the uniform is suspect. The law only makes sense.

When will the conservative blind love for cops end?

It wasn't Nancy Pelosi or Joe Biden enforcing the shut down of businesses. It was local cops.

It won't be Nancy pelosi or Joe Biden coming to make sure businesses bake the cake or to churches to make sure they marry two men. It will be cops.

These people do not deserve the blind loyalty they have been granted. This is a good law.

not hedge said:

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Time for the rest of the nation to do the same. FAFO

This is long overdue and I'm not surprised that cop unions are pushing against it. Texas legislators need to act now

https://6ix.buzz/the-state-of-indiana-has-officially-permitted-the-use-of-deadly-force-on-cops-if-they-illegally-enter-your-property/

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Are you insane, or are you just trolling for some twisted amusement.
We (those who support the constitution) define legality in the courtroom, not the front room.

Sorry but the citizens should be able to take down cops (arm of the government) for illegal actions. Same as if it were anybody else breaking into your home