DallasAg 94 said:

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In case you were sleeping... You may not realize how much SSI you will pay in 2023:

Here are the Program Limits from various years:

Quote:

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2011 106,800
2012 110,100
2013 113,700
...
2022 147,000
2023 160,200

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That 8% increase in SSI payments to granny have to get "paid" somewhere.

For SSI withholdings:
6.2% paid by you
6.2% paid by your employer.

Now you see why $15/hr $20/hr $30/hr pay is important.

That is a 50% increase in 12 years. By you. By your employer.

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While I think its a valid gripe against social security, I do think 107k in 2011 is about equivalent to 160k in 2023. So they are probably just outpacing real inflation across 12 years.

Also, as SSI income limits grow, you're going to hear fewer voices complain and fewer and fewer listeners care. There's just fewer people in those higher income brackets. For the truly middle class that has no hope of getting over 160k they're wondering why those with high incomes reach an escape velocity (with regards to SSI, this argument disregards income tax).

Thank God I'm a S-Corp...**** the gov't on this crap. I'll never see social security (34 y/o), so I'm doing my damndest to not pay it

Joy! Another $818 I'll likely never see...

I'll hit that $160k but I'm sure this means that my SS benefit will increase to a level that ill be able to live on, right?

one MEEN Ag said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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In case you were sleeping... You may not realize how much SSI you will pay in 2023:

Here are the Program Limits from various years:

Quote:

---

2011 106,800
2012 110,100
2013 113,700
...
2022 147,000
2023 160,200

---

That 8% increase in SSI payments to granny have to get "paid" somewhere.

For SSI withholdings:
6.2% paid by you
6.2% paid by your employer.

Now you see why $15/hr $20/hr $30/hr pay is important.

That is a 50% increase in 12 years. By you. By your employer.

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While I think its a valid gripe against social security, I do think 107k in 2011 is about equivalent to 160k in 2023. So they are probably just outpacing real inflation across 12 years.

Also, as SSI income limits grow, you're going to hear fewer voices complain and fewer and fewer listeners care. There's just fewer people in those higher income brackets. For the truly middle class that has no hope of getting over 160k they're wondering why those with high incomes reach an escape velocity (with regards to SSI, this argument disregards income tax).

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There are a crap load of people in that 160K plus range, and growing

TREX01 said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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In case you were sleeping... You may not realize how much SSI you will pay in 2023:

Here are the Program Limits from various years:

Quote:

---

2011 106,800
2012 110,100
2013 113,700
...
2022 147,000
2023 160,200

---

That 8% increase in SSI payments to granny have to get "paid" somewhere.

For SSI withholdings:
6.2% paid by you
6.2% paid by your employer.

Now you see why $15/hr $20/hr $30/hr pay is important.

That is a 50% increase in 12 years. By you. By your employer.

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While I think its a valid gripe against social security, I do think 107k in 2011 is about equivalent to 160k in 2023. So they are probably just outpacing real inflation across 12 years.

Also, as SSI income limits grow, you're going to hear fewer voices complain and fewer and fewer listeners care. There's just fewer people in those higher income brackets. For the truly middle class that has no hope of getting over 160k they're wondering why those with high incomes reach an escape velocity (with regards to SSI, this argument disregards income tax).

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There are a crap load of people in that 160K plus range, and growing

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But not as many people as those at 107k. If SSI wants to outpace inflation, there will be fewer people each year who it effects. This is the same dynamic as taxing the ultra wealthy. They could jump SSI from 160k to 200k overnight and this country (as a whole) wouldn't blink nor wouldn't care. It would change no voting behavior and it would result in 0 revolts.

So expect SSI to accelerate up the income ladder.

Damn I didn't realize it was going up that much.

Boomer entitlement handouts go up, while we foot the bill

not hedge said:

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Boomer entitlement handouts go up, while we foot the bill

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Bull***** The Boomers had that money stolen from their paychecks the past 50-60 years. Many of them will never get it all back, certainly not with a decent compounded rate of return. Its the irresponsible younger people who are getting their college loans forgiven who are leaching off the system.

Buck Turgidson said:

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not hedge said:

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Boomer entitlement handouts go up, while we foot the bill

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Bull***** The Boomers had that money stolen from their paychecks the past 50-60 years. Many of them will never get it all back.

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They continued to vote for politicians that refused to fix it

That's the part that gets me, and why you KNOW it isn't about making sure a person can retire. That and the part where congress treats it as a slush fund for extras.

DallasAg 94 said:

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My company said that Inflation doesn't affect people as much as you go up the Income level. So pay allocation increases diminished.

People who made $75K and less got closer to 10%. People who made over $200K got less than 5%.

While I largely agree with their sentiment, the incremental impact on all fronts creates growing pain.

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And yet it's the people over $200K that will get hired away because 5% raises aren't keeping up. That's good corporate governance right there.

TARP, Medicare, SS, Freddie Mac, Auto Crisis, Savings and Loan Bailout of 89, and the piece de resistance Trumps PPP and COVID Checks

No where is it my responsibility to finance the retirement of someone that didn't bother to figure it out for themselves.

I 100% do not care if a total stranger sits in retirement cold, hungry, and homeless. Forced charity is theft. I'll care for myself, my family, and those I deem worthy.

Theft

Kenneth_2003 said:

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No where is it my responsibility to finance the retirement of someone that didn't bother to figure it out for themselves.

I 100% do not care if a total stranger sits in retirement cold, hungry, and homeless. Forced charity is theft. I'll care for myself, my family, and those I deem worthy.

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Bingo, I'm amazed how little old people saved for their retirements, completely relied on government entitlements to fund their leisure

Social Security is unconstitutional, period. It may be deemed as legal and based on precedent, but it is unconstitutional, as are many things the federal government does and taxes for.....

Kenneth_2003 said:

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No where is it my responsibility to finance the retirement of someone that didn't bother to figure it out for themselves.

I 100% do not care if a total stranger sits in retirement cold, hungry, and homeless. Forced charity is theft. I'll care for myself, my family, and those I deem worthy.

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This is the way!

Irish 2.0 said:

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Thank God I'm a S-Corp...**** the gov't on this crap. I'll never see social security (34 y/o), so I'm doing my damndest to not pay it

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You pay self employment tax. Same thing. Same amount.

And it really isn't so granny gets money now. The money is long since spent. I get about $3K per month. Compared to what i put in for 40+ years it's a pittance. Up to age 50 or so I'd have gladly agreed to receiving nothing for 15 years of not paying the tax.

Buck Turgidson said:

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not hedge said:

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Boomer entitlement handouts go up, while we foot the bill

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Bull***** The Boomers had that money stolen from their paychecks the past 50-60 years. Many of them will never get it all back, certainly not with a decent compounded rate of return. Its the irresponsible younger people who are getting their college loans forgiven who are leaching off the system.

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Eh okay but it's more the fault of the Boomers (who were 1 of like 5 or 6 kids) deciding only to have two kids. Pyramid schemes need replacement of population or they get top-heavy. Boomer costs of aging are what will tip the pyramid over or result in the lower tiers' piggy banks being raided.

Tl;dr FSS, it should be abolished, but if you only have 1 or 2 kids you're part of the problem.

Quote:

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That is a 50% increase in 12 years. By you. By your employer.

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Only if you pay the max. I could just as easily argue that there should be no max. But then the calculations on payout should reflect that as well.

I've always felt the solution is to phase it out. e.g., age 50+ no change, age 40+ reduced tax, but reduced payout. age <40 - reduced tax eventually eliminated, no payout.

cecil77 said:

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Quote:

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That is a 50% increase in 12 years. By you. By your employer.

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Only if you pay the max. I could just as easily argue that there should be no max. But then the calculations on payout should reflect that as well.

I've always felt the solution is to phase it out. e.g., age 50+ no change, age 40+ reduced tax, but reduced payout. age <40 - reduced tax eventually eliminated, no payout.

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They key is to be the owner and pay yourself a "reasonable salary" and take the rest as owner distributions.

DallasAg 94 said:

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Some quick math.

At 25, if you average 110K for 35 years and paid the Max 6.2%...

You'd pay $6,820 per year X 35 years => $238,700 total cash out of pocket.

At 0%, you'd have $238,700 in today's dollars
At 6%, you'd have $759,993 in today's dollars
At 9%, you'd have $1,471,167 in today's dollars.

NOW, double that for your employer's contribution.

You'd be 60.
If you put that into a 401(k) and you died... your family would inherit $1.4M.
If you put that into SSI and you died... your family would inherit $0.
If you were married, your wife would get some survivor benefits until she died.

Now, if your company matched 50% up to $6,820...say in a 401(k),

You'd have $10,230 invested annually,
At 6%, you'd have $1,138,985
At 9%, you'd have $2.2M.

At that point, if you drew $132K/yr off your $2.2M, you'd draw pure interest and no principal.

Which is why you know the Establishment is coming for your 401(k).

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Yep.

I F'd up once and looked at what I could have in retirement if I didn't have my money forcibly stolen from me through SSI and instead invested it at a measly 6% return. I will never do that excercise again because I was ready to absolutely murder some politicians after seeing the number.

One of the simplest things that could ever be done to change the outlook of this country with regards to government is to quit automatic witholdings and make people write that check every pay period to the IRS. I would love to see that happen because it would be a great awakening. But it never will, for that reason. The government wants people dumb, ignorant and kept int he dark. And they do a great job of it.

cecil77 said:

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Quote:

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That is a 50% increase in 12 years. By you. By your employer.

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Only if you pay the max. I could just as easily argue that there should be no max. But then the calculations on payout should reflect that as well.

I've always felt the solution is to phase it out. e.g., age 50+ no change, age 40+ reduced tax, but reduced payout. age <40 - reduced tax eventually eliminated, no payout.

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The solution is to make it voluntary, and at the age of retirement, you are automatically cut a check for the amount you have in your SS account to do with as you please instead of the government giving you crumbs back of your own fuggin money. I'm infinitely better at how to manage MY money than the worlthless government.

I paid into it for 40 plus years, so I'm happy that I get some back. Now you guys just stop your b and keep paying me.
Thank you for your contribution. Also love my Medicare. Rarely do I have any out pocket cost, except for my annual deductible. Don't know how much it saved me for my prostate radiation treatments, but I had zero out of pocket.

cecil77 said:

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Irish 2.0 said:

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Thank God I'm a S-Corp...**** the gov't on this crap. I'll never see social security (34 y/o), so I'm doing my damndest to not pay it

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You pay self employment tax. Same thing. Same amount.

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No **** Sherlock. But I get to decide what I pay myself as a salary and what I disperse as a dividend which is only subject to income tax. Not employment taxes.

I pay as little as possible into employment taxes.

mc_shipman said:

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That's the part that gets me, and why you KNOW it isn't about making sure a person can retire. That and the part where congress treats it as a slush fund for extras.

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Social Security was NEVER a retirement program! Ever! It wasn't created to be one, it wasn't pushed to be one, it wasn't designed to be one.

It was created post depression to ensure that people had *some* level of savings because the banking collapse bankrupted the entire country. But it was never designed to replace actual pensions, retirement savings or 401k's when they became a thing.

But the government and politicians changed the narrative over the years and now people think that is what it was created for. It is proof that if you repeat a lie often enough, people think it is the truth.

DallasAg 94 said:

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Some quick math.

At 25, if you average 110K for 35 years and paid the Max 6.2%...

You'd pay $6,820 per year X 35 years => $238,700 total cash out of pocket.

At 0%, you'd have $238,700 in today's dollars
At 6%, you'd have $759,993 in today's dollars
At 9%, you'd have $1,471,167 in today's dollars.

NOW, double that for your employer's contribution.

You'd be 60.
If you put that into a 401(k) and you died... your family would inherit $1.4M.
If you put that into SSI and you died... your family would inherit $0.
If you were married, your wife would get some survivor benefits until she died.

Now, if your company matched 50% up to $6,820...say in a 401(k),

You'd have $10,230 invested annually,
At 6%, you'd have $1,138,985
At 9%, you'd have $2.2M.

At that point, if you drew $132K/yr off your $2.2M, you'd draw pure interest and no principal.

Which is why you know the Establishment is coming for your 401(k).

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That could be true, but if you are talking about seizing people's savings, that would be a huge **** storm