Not to get too jumpy, but this could be interesting if they ever release more details:

https://ajot.com/news/faa-warns-airline-pilots-as-gps-signals-disrupted-around-dallas

Sounds like that 5G roll-out thing that we weren't allowed to talk about.

Rydyn said:

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Sounds like that 5G roll-out thing that we weren't allowed to talk about.

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If I recall, 5G is on the ground proximity radar frequencies, not the ILS frequencies or GPS bands.

If it were 5G related it would be more widespread. Edit unless DFW has some GPS repeaters or other equipment specific for aviation. But again, an external influence should have a more widespread impact I'd think

I'm guessing it was a failure in the WAAS system, which increases GPS 3D accuracy to allow for instrument approaches.

No, but it's okay, ECEN 478 is really ****ing hard.

So we think it is not likely to be a bad actor?

Probably time to start worrying if you see John McClane at or near the airport.

Definitely need more info. GPS jamming is actually pretty common, but not so much close to major metropolitan areas and large airports. The language in the article seems to imply that the RNAV arrivals and departures had to be shut down, which would be a big PITA, but not the end of the world.

Kenneth_2003 said:

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Rydyn said:

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Sounds like that 5G roll-out thing that we weren't allowed to talk about.

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If I recall, 5G is on the ground proximity radar frequencies, not the ILS frequencies or GPS bands.

If it were 5G related it would be more widespread. Edit unless DFW has some GPS repeaters or other equipment specific for aviation. But again, an external influence should have a more widespread impact I'd think

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Username...

Oh, noes! Pilots will have to look out the window and actually fly the plane by hand!

Russians have spoofed ship GPS in their part of the world on several occasions.

Pilot buddy confirms they lost GPS on the way out. No big deal but unusual. Indicated only other time it happened was flying over WSMR. Just anecdotal but interesting.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Oh, noes! Pilots will have to look out the window and actually fly the plane by hand!

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Not really

fka ftc said:

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Pilot buddy confirms they lost GPS on the way out. No big deal but unusual. Indicated only other time it happened was flying over WSMR. Just anecdotal but interesting.

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Texags knows.

Interesting. This sort of thing has huge criminal penalties if they somehow figure out who did it.

Anyone remember the series of vessel collisions in recent years which were rumored to be cause by disruption / cloning of the GPS signal?

Two US ships and one Norwegian ship that sank.

There were rumors of targeted GPS disruption but don't know if anything was ever confirmed.

In any event, something to think about.

So how does GPS interference work/jamming work?
You need a lot of instrumentation to do it?

So many weapons use GPS guidance, and i always assumed it was failsafe (never is i guess) - do you have to be in the vicinity of the target to jam/interfere with GPS?

FBI man, i'm asking just out of curiousity

What people call "gps" guided weapons like JDAM are actually inertially guided and aided by GPS. We can, and do, employ them without use of GPS although there is a slight cost in accuracy. Airliners use GPS but also constantly update their navigational systems by other means. A loss of GPS would affect some specific instrument approaches and terminal arrivals/departures but it's not a huge deal although it's still concerning if it is a deliberate act.

GAC06 said:

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What people call "gps" guided weapons like JDAM are actually inertially guided and aided by GPS. We can, and do, employ them without use of GPS although there is a slight cost in accuracy. Airliners use GPS but also constantly update their navigational systems by other means. A loss of GPS would affect some specific instrument approaches and terminal arrivals/departures but it's not a huge deal although it's still concerning if it is a deliberate act.

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How would someone do that?
Your signal is from space no? so what exactly do you jam?
Or do you jam something on the ground?

deddog said:

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GAC06 said:

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What people call "gps" guided weapons like JDAM are actually inertially guided and aided by GPS. We can, and do, employ them without use of GPS although there is a slight cost in accuracy. Airliners use GPS but also constantly update their navigational systems by other means. A loss of GPS would affect some specific instrument approaches and terminal arrivals/departures but it's not a huge deal although it's still concerning if it is a deliberate act.

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How would someone do that?
Your signal is from space no? so what exactly do you jam?
Or do you jam something on the ground?

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Even though its from space, its still just a radio signal. Broadcast louder on the same frequency and you get your jam on.

I would think the challenge is in the ability to effect a larger area. I do not think your garage based ham operator is able to do this. But maybe if you took over a rogue Tejano radio operator.

The catch-22 is that the better you jam, the stronger your broadcast and the more likely you are to be found out.

It's a radio signal and can be interfered with just like any other.

Someone forgot to put their phone in airplane mode. Bound to happen one of these days.

deddog said:

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So how does GPS interference work/jamming work?
You need a lot of instrumentation to do it?

So many weapons use GPS guidance, and i always assumed it was failsafe (never is i guess) - do you have to be in the vicinity of the target to jam/interfere with GPS?

FBI man, i'm asking just out of curiousity

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You would need to broadcast something on the same frequency that overloads the receiver in the GPS unit. In theory it shouldn't be too hard as I think the received power is pretty low. A simple attack would just broadcast noise, though maybe a more sophisticated attack might be able to create some sort of false GPS signal. I believe the data rate is pretty low, so that would make it a little harder to overcome with just straight noise.

Others answered the jamming question, it's a known issue. It's not uncommon to see degraded GPS when flying out west near certain ranges because our military practices operating in that environment.

It is a problem on ships because basically everything is controlled with the input of thr GPS position and if you don't have someone standing a vigilant watch you can get in to real trouble by someone spoofing your GPS.

Sea Speed said:

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It is a problem on ships because basically everything is controlled with the input of thr GPS position and if you don't have someone standing a vigilant watch you can get in to real trouble by someone spoofing your GPS.

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Is GPS spoofing a thing? Does the GPS signal even have any sort of encryption? Even if it did, I'm sure it is not a very well kept secret.

deddog said:

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So how does GPS interference work/jamming work?
You need a lot of instrumentation to do it?

So many weapons use GPS guidance, and i always assumed it was failsafe (never is i guess) - do you have to be in the vicinity of the target to jam/interfere with GPS?

FBI man, i'm asking just out of curiousity

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Actually relatively simple to build one with the proper knowledge. Also, of note, GPS jamming is downlink jamming, that is, you're jamming the terrestrial receivers, not the spacecraft.

deddog said:

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So how does GPS interference work/jamming work?
You need a lot of instrumentation to do it?

So many weapons use GPS guidance, and i always assumed it was failsafe (never is i guess) - do you have to be in the vicinity of the target to jam/interfere with GPS?

FBI man, i'm asking just out of curiousity

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Blast a bunch of noise on the right frequencies, could be done with **** from RadioShack (if it still existed). Only side affect is the FCC busting down your door.

Haven't read this article but it talks about it and yes, it is real.

https://safety4sea.com/cm-understanding-gps-spoofing-in-shipping-how-to-stay-protected/

I would think the above average techy teenager knows a bit about spoofing GPS to their... advantage.

"Yes mom, just look at your phone and you can see I am still with Johnny waiting on youth fellowship to start", as he sits the phone down at St. James and uses his fake virtual ID to order another beer.

GAC06 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Oh, noes! Pilots will have to look out the window and actually fly the plane by hand!

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Not really

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I bow to your superior knowledge. Planes are falling out of the sky as we speak

Not to worry! Fraternal Brotherhood of Incitements are on it!