BRICS country's developing new Reserve Currency

5,205 Views | 52 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by JWinTX
will25u
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Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa are developing a new Reserve Currency to challenge US Dollar dominance.

"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

- Abraham Lincoln
LOYAL AG
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LOL. OK. Good luck with that.
The federal government was never meant to be this powerful.
Psycho Bunny
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A new currency to invest in.

Showertime at the Bidens
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They obviously don't know what happens to countries who try to get off of the u.s. dollar
YouBet
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India going in with China on anything gives me pause regardless of its futility. We are dropping the ball on that relationship, apparently.

Still laughing at South Africa being relevant in much of anything.
Ag In Ok
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Don't care except for Brazil. No nation of size in the Western Hemisphere should be involved. We need to break that tie. Period.
I would have hoped trump could have pulled it off had he been re-elected.
YouBet
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Ag In Ok said:

Don't care except for Brazil. No nation of size in the Western Hemisphere should be involved. We need to break that tie. Period.
I would have hoped trump could have pulled it off had he been re-elected.
Agree with this too. We continue to neglect our hemisphere to our own detriment.
The Debt
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YouBet said:

Ag In Ok said:

Don't care except for Brazil. No nation of size in the Western Hemisphere should be involved. We need to break that tie. Period.
I would have hoped trump could have pulled it off had he been re-elected.
Agree with this too. We continue to neglect our hemisphere to our own detriment.
the world is our hemisphere.

Hths
Psycho Bunny
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Not looking good for the euro.

Europe's common currency edged closer toward parity with the US dollar Tuesday as energy concerns and the risk of recession weighed on the outlook for the euro area, while risk aversion fueled a broad rally in the greenback.

The euro dropped as much as 1.3% to $1.0005, eclipsing its low from last week. The last time it was this low was back in 2002. The Bloomberg Dollar Spot Index has jumped as much as 1.2% so far this week.

The euro's downward spiral has been swift and brutal, given it was trading around $1.15 in February. A string of increasingly-large Federal Reserve interest-rate hikes has supercharged the dollar, while Russia's invasion of Ukraine has worsened the outlook for growth in the euro zone and pushed up the cost of the region's energy imports.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-11/euro-plunges-to-fresh-two-decade-low-as-dollar-runs-rampant
Eliminatus
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YouBet said:

India going in with China on anything gives me pause regardless of its futility. We are dropping the ball on that relationship, apparently.

Still laughing at South Africa being relevant in much of anything.


No kidding. India has the potential to be an incredibly beneficial ally to us, and us to them, and at times it seems they were receptive of such a relationship. That has changed last few years and they are slipping from neutral to slowly getting into bed with our declared adversaries. I am sure it is two sided to some extent but can't help but think our amazing diplomacy team, with such successes as Afghanistan and strained relationship with Europe in general, botched this again.
IslanderAg04
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Psycho Bunny said:

A new currency to invest in.




Live image of George Soros.
Marcus Brutus
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It all depends on Saudi. If they drop the Petro dollar, it's over. I hope they do.

I'm ready for a split, peaceful or otherwise.
Buck Turgidson
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I could have sworn that we had engaged India in an anti-China military (mostly naval) alliance earlier this year. It looks like China is playing both sides of the fence. I'm getting tired of their bull**** frankly.
titan
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Marcus Brutus said:

It all depends on Saudi. If they drop the Petro dollar, it's over. I hope they do.

I'm ready for a split, peaceful or otherwise.
Explain. Does the dropping of it lead immediately to national divorce? Are they connected?
PCC_80
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Quote:

No kidding. India has the potential to be an incredibly beneficial ally to us, and us to them
Why we are not giving a lot more attention to India I do not understand. They have huge potential and are much more friendly and reliable than China. Moving a lot of manufacturing from China to India would be a great play for both countries.
dmart90
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BRICScoin?
PCC_80
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Zarathustra said:

They obviously don't know what happens to countries who try to get off of the u.s. dollar
Lots of countries are tired of our dollar printing since it devalues their dollar holdings.

A new currency that eliminates that crap makes sense to them especially for O&G transactions. If they can make it work then we are then a lot worse off. Not sure if the dollar goes free fall, but people could decline to accept them which certainly weakens it.
AW 1880
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If you've looked at just about any other currency in the world, the USD is still king (and getting stronger comparatively) despite everything we've done over the last few years.
Ags4DaWin
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We should court the hell out of India.

They have the population to rival China and constantly have border squabbles.

Having a nuclear powered and unfriendly neighbor at their southern border would be the perfect way to counter china's belligerence in the south China sea.
FarmerJohn
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Quote:

and South Africa

Predmid
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So...which corrupt government gets blamed when things go sideways?

Or will it be one if those, "its a Chinese currency and the rest better fall in line or they will further own your country through proxy"?
aggie93
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Sounds like a Russia/China pipe dream/distraction. I don't see India going in with China on much of anything of importance. Why would they drop the US to trust China and Russia? Take advantage of cheap oil? Sure. Bet their entire economic future on them? Nope. China is having bank runs right now and both China and Russia is using up what resources they have trying to subdue Ukraine when they should have taken it in a week.

India is not run by idiots. They know they can never really project power but they also can be a very strong neutral country that plays both sides. India will be around in 50 years, China and Russia won't be recognizable in 20, probably less than 10. With the latest revisit of China's population estimates being vastly overstated India is actually poised to pass China in population in the next year as well.

South Africa and Brazil are bit players.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
Jayhawk
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"BRICS" is not an alliance, it is a term of art coined by the sort of media-economists who write for the Financial Times and the Economist. A lot of fanciful talk about what the "BRICS" are planning etc. in the past few months, but it is untethered from underlying political realities amongst and between the constituent countries.
B-1 83
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YouBet said:

India going in with China on anything gives me pause regardless of its futility. We are dropping the ball on that relationship, apparently.

Still laughing at South Africa being relevant in much of anything.
It's like Greece being your economic buddy.
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
Ag with kids
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B-1 83 said:

YouBet said:

India going in with China on anything gives me pause regardless of its futility. We are dropping the ball on that relationship, apparently.

Still laughing at South Africa being relevant in much of anything.
It's like Greece being your economic buddy.
Unfortunately, I think South Africa has at least one nuclear weapon...They supposedly "disarmed" decades ago, but I call bull**** on any country actually giving that up without a war...
infinity ag
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Eliminatus said:

YouBet said:

India going in with China on anything gives me pause regardless of its futility. We are dropping the ball on that relationship, apparently.

Still laughing at South Africa being relevant in much of anything.


No kidding. India has the potential to be an incredibly beneficial ally to us, and us to them, and at times it seems they were receptive of such a relationship. That has changed last few years and they are slipping from neutral to slowly getting into bed with our declared adversaries. I am sure it is two sided to some extent but can't help but think our amazing diplomacy team, with such successes as Afghanistan and strained relationship with Europe in general, botched this again.

You are right. India has the same values as the US. But we have treated them with racism, like crap. We don't let them join the UN Security Council though they are No 2 in pop and largest democracy. We prefer a terrorist country like Pakistan instead because those tinpot dictators do our bidding.

We have bad judgement.
gonemaroon
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Would any of you sell a commodity in return for a $USD these days? I wouldn't we are making a mockery of the worth of first world currency. We (not them) are setting the worth of it, and it seems as though we are hell bent on making sure it's worthless.
LOYAL AG
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gonemaroon said:

Would any of you sell a commodity in return for a $USD these days? I wouldn't we are making a mockery of the worth of first world currency. We (not them) are setting the worth of it, and it seems as though we are hell bent on making sure it's worthless.
The level of naive it takes to continue to make this argument is frustrating. Yes we're doing a poor job of managing the dollar but everyone else is doing a worse job of managing their currency. The dollar doesn't exist in a vacuum and you've got to understand that fact. It is undeniably the strongest currency in the world because the US economy is the strongest economy in the world. Hell just yesterday we were having a conversation about the USD strengthening against the Euro which is a whole different problem.

No, you don't have to sell your commodities in dollars but you severely limit the marketplace of buyers when you don't. Worse still if you start getting belligerent about not taking dollars at some point a president with a functioning brain is going to instruct the Pentagon to stop protecting your trade ships or worse to attack them.

In short you don't have a choice but to do business the way we want it done. That's the world we've built. It ain't pretty but we hold all of the trump cards.
The federal government was never meant to be this powerful.
Adverse Event
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Quote:

The dollar doesn't exist in a vacuum and you've got to understand that fact. It is undeniably the strongest currency in the world because the US economy is the strongest economy in the world. Hell just yesterday we were having a conversation about the USD strengthening against the Euro which is a whole different problem.

Fiat has existed in a vacuum for nearly 50 years, with the dollar at the pinnacle and the largest threat of violence backing it.

Unfortunately, for the few benefiting from the printing of the dollar, the fiat vacuum has turned into a bubble after the discovery of digital scarcity in 2008/9.

Also, I'd hesitate to call our economy the strongest economy in the world. We are propped up on extremely weak societal/cultural pillars and a sandy foundation. We present very well, but we all know it'll just take a few more jostled before the house of cards tumbles.
LOYAL AG
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Adverse Event said:

Quote:

The dollar doesn't exist in a vacuum and you've got to understand that fact. It is undeniably the strongest currency in the world because the US economy is the strongest economy in the world. Hell just yesterday we were having a conversation about the USD strengthening against the Euro which is a whole different problem.

Fiat has existed in a vacuum for nearly 50 years, with the dollar at the pinnacle and the largest threat of violence backing it.

Unfortunately, for the few benefiting from the printing of the dollar, the fiat vacuum has turned into a bubble after the discovery of digital scarcity in 2008/9.

Also, I'd hesitate to call our economy the strongest economy in the world. We are propped up on extremely weak societal/cultural pillars and a sandy foundation. We present very well, but we all know it'll just take a few more jostled before the house of cards tumbles.

Again you talk about the dollar and the US economy as if they are the only currency and economy in the world. That's just simply wrong. The strength of the dollar isn't just measured against the products we use it to buy, it is also measured against the world's other currencies. It doesn't matter than fiat currency has existed in a vacuum for 50 years when all currencies are fiat currencies. Nobody ties their currency to anything tangible, it's all a giant game of cards and we hold the most cards and pretty much all of the spades.

Nothing you said about the dollar or US economy is wrong but you must realize everyone else is in worse shape and are farther along towards economic collapse than we are. China is in the early days of demographic collapse and as a result they are no longer able to fill their role as the source of cheap labor. What does that mean? We're seeing manufacturing leave China at an accelerating rate with that activity going to various nations in SE Asia and in a lot of cases the US or Mexico. China is literally collapsing before our eyes. Russia should have invaded Ukraine five years ago. They're further into their demographic collapse than China is.

We have significant problems at home, nobody is denying that. The social problems are significant and it's clear we have a party determined to weaken the nation. But we are the wealthiest nation on earth by a really, really, really long shot and the second largest economy (China) is close to being in free fall with bank runs and lost jobs due to the lost manufacturers. If you want to argue we're the tallest midget I may agree but at least then you'd be acknowledging the other midgets.

Like I said in the post you replied to you have to understand the wider world before you make bold proclamations about our future and someone else replacing us. Nobody is going to replace us, there's simply nobody else capable. We haven't even gotten to the US Navy which is the lynchpin of global trade. I mean it literally when I say nobody else can replace us. Are we going to collapse? That's a great question. Right here right now it certainly seems possible even likely. But IMO we're going to see everyone else collapse first.
The federal government was never meant to be this powerful.
Adverse Event
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Not in disagreement, we are the tallest midget.

The navy cannot perform much if we so not have the fuel to feed the navy which this admin is intensively reducing our strategic petroleum reserves, ie. our wealth (both for kinetic violence projection and trade (mis)management, and dollar hegemony).

If global supply chains grind to a halt because the US doesn't perform performative duties around international trade, this country collapses overnight.

We do not have the cultural or societal ideals to perform work necessary to continue our current lifestyles, instead we are focusing all of our energies towards sex and gender and anti-isms.

Hell we have military folks making tiktoks about how they can't support this country because of RvW...

And secondly, at what point do Space Forces supercede the navy in international trade administration?

What can't we do from space we can perform burning through fuel on the ocean?

What can we do with drones and global data that would absolve the navy of the demand of maintaining dollar hegemony?

Is it about to be far less costly or more costly?
If the US navy ceased to exist tomorrow (or became a shell of its former capabilities), why would the dollar still remain king?

Imo, the only thing holding this duct-taped country together is the Dollar hegemony adhesive. Once the adhesive stops performing, strong men will be forced to create good times once again.
Pinche Guero
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So the commies that are opposed to the WEF are teaming up
LOYAL AG
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Adverse Event said:

Not in disagreement, we are the tallest midget.

A. The navy cannot perform much if we so not have the fuel to feed the navy which this admin is intensively reducing our strategic petroleum reserves, ie. our wealth (both for kinetic violence projection and trade (mis)management, and dollar hegemony).

B. If global supply chains grind to a halt because the US doesn't perform performative duties around international trade, this country collapses overnight.

C. We do not have the cultural or societal ideals to perform work necessary to continue our current lifestyles, instead we are focusing all of our energies towards sex and gender and anti-isms.

Hell we have military folks making tiktoks about how they can't support this country because of RvW...

D. And secondly, at what point do Space Forces supercede the navy in international trade administration?

D. What can't we do from space we can perform burning through fuel on the ocean?

D. What can we do with drones and global data that would absolve the navy of the demand of maintaining dollar hegemony?

Is it about to be far less costly or more costly?
E. If the US navy ceased to exist tomorrow (or became a shell of its former capabilities), why would the dollar still remain king?

F. Imo, the only thing holding this duct-taped country together is the Dollar hegemony adhesive. Once the adhesive stops performing, strong men will be forced to create good times once again.
Lot's to unpack here. I'm going to number them and reply accordingly:

A. Agreed but let's not overplay that. The military doesn't operate from the SPR. The Pentagon buys fuel and burns it. The SPR is there to keep us from running out in a crisis and this isn't a crisis. The current SPR usage is a political football. We are the #1 producer of crude and I don't THINK this admin is capable of ending that in the remaining time they have left. That we're importing it as well is where they can do damage but they'll leave office and we'll still be the #1 producer.

B. This isn't true. We'll have some real problems if supply chains halt but we're the least engaged economy in the world with less than 20% of our GDP based on trade. We're the world's #1 exporter of food, for example. If supply chains halt how many people starve and how many will be in the US? The first answer is a lot and the second is none. Things get really messy but we aren't going to fail because we can't import cheap Chinese crap. One of the reasons we're seeing the inflation we are is because so much manufacturing is returning to North America and we're seeing that because of concerns over the ability of China and the rest of Asia to keep up with US demand. It's going to get and stay messy until those products find new homes and that's going to cause problems but that's not going to last forever and we aren't going to starve because of it.

C. Agree here. America is in real trouble from a cultural perspective.

D. Good question I hadn't considered. Can we effectively fight off pirates and rival nations from space? IDK. India doesn't attack oil freighters headed to China because we don't let them. Can we enforce that from space?

E. This isn't going to happen so why worry about it? You have to understand that a big part of what Americans don't like is this push for globalization but we aren't seeing it right. We aren't being pushed to implement a globalized system but rather we're being pushed to keep the 80 year old global system that already exists. Globalization is ending and the powers that be don't want that because they've made a ton of money on this system. As long as they're in power the US Navy is going to keep protecting trade routes. I would like to think that when we recall the Navy it will be because we aren't importing at even the rate we are today but I think that's naive. We don't have anyone in power that understands the world well enough to look up one day and realize that our trade isn't sufficient to warrant what we spend to protect global trade. I fully expect us to see a day where trade is less than 8% of our GDP and we'll be still fully engaged in protecting global trade. In other words the Navy isn't going to be recalled anytime soon.

F. Not sure here. If/when we pull the plug on propping up global trade the dollar may no longer be the global reserve overnight but so what? At that point there is no global trade, it'll be impossible for anyone to provide adequate security to their own vessels never mind everyone else's. if we get to that point we will likely have seen so much manufacturing reshore to North America that we'll see a slowdown in the rate of inflation because the costs of that reshoring will have been spent and things will have slowed down some. That's 7-10 years out, IMO.

I agree we're headed to some hard times and it's going to get painful. But you have to remember that globalism was never an economic system for us. We created this to control the Soviets. Extracting ourselves is going to be annoying and painful and your comment about strong men is accurate but we aren't going to fail. The rest of the world rides our coattails, not the other way around. The real question is how does our politics evolve during the rest of this decade and do we put ourselves in a position to take advantage of a much more North American system than what we've all know all our lives? THAT I'm far less confident in.
The federal government was never meant to be this powerful.
Signel
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This isn't "NEW."

They have been working on this for a long time due to SWIFT sanctions. On top of this, they are adding the Saudi's.

On top of this, the S is South Africa. I bet they add the new S to the end for Saudi Oil Money.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRICS
Adverse Event
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Appreciate the long form response. That took time.
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