This is a really long substack read on how people interact with the world around them drives the elitist divide. For anyone who has the ten minutes to read it, I think it's a great article.

https://theupheaval.substack.com/p/reality-honks-back?r=194auw&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email&fbclid=IwAR3Ypd0z4Gt1CZqlFc9PqvUR4-MW4XIie99P50BGBKqYaQwwIt6sMhT995Q&utm_source=url

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The first is a class that has been a part of human civilization for a really long time. These are the people who work primarily in the real, physical world. Maybe they work directly with their hands, like a carpenter, or a mechanic, or a farmer. Or maybe they are only a step away: they own or manage a business where they organize and direct employees who work with their hands, and buy or sell or move things around in the real world. Like a transport logistics company, maybe. This class necessarily works in a physical location, or they own or operate physical assets that are central to their trade.

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The second class is different. It is, relatively speaking, a new civilizational innovation (at least in numbering more than a handful of people). This group is the "thinking classes" Lasch was writing about above. They don't interact much with the physical world directly; they are handlers of knowledge. They work with information, .... Manipulation and distribution of this information can influence the real world, but only through informational chains that pass directives to agents that can themselves act in the physical world a bit like a software program that sends commands to a robot arm on an assembly line. To facilitate this, they build and manage abstract institutions and systems of organizational communication as a means of control. Individuals in this class usually occupy middle links in these informational chains, in which neither the inputs nor outputs of their role has any direct relationship with or impact on the physical world...... This class can therefore do their job almost entirely from a laptop, by email or a virtual Zoom meeting, and has recently realized they don't even need to be sitting in an office cubicle while they do it.

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Summary: We have a major class of people who mostly live in cities that have become detached from the physical world. They don't understand the consequences of their actions and have no concept of unintended consequences since anything can just be explained away through the information they digest on the screen.

This is what is driving the rural urban divide and can actually be seen on physical maps.

My opinion: They are already effectively living in the metaverse and don't realize it.

Pretty interesting. The second class of people will really struggle if there were to be any type of technological hardship. They cannot really produce anything. There will come a time most likely in the not to distant future where these people will have to fight for survival like everyone else and they will not have the skills.

this is completely true; i live in both worlds deeply, and see it from both sides.

the problem is, i dont really know ANYONE under 30 that can.

I'm sure they exist, but i've never met one.

anything that is on a screen is the result of arbitrary decisions and rules made by people for all kinds of reasons. it has nothing to do with logic, physics, or common sense. inputs and outcomes can be gamed, and do not necessarily flow from cause to effect.

it has to have a severe psychological impact. when combined with completely one sided mind control and propaganda, it is easy to see why the world is going the direction of every dystopian movie in history, with entire generations either supporting it as useful idiots, or apathetic about it.

Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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Pretty interesting. The second class of people will really struggle if there were to be any type of technological hardship. They cannot really produce anything. There will come a time most likely in the not to distant future where these people will have to fight for survival like everyone else and they will not have the skills.

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Ironically, when I was coming out of school got ok with an engineering firm but had a gut desire to join an O&G/Petrochemical company that actually produced a product. This line of thinking I think has been around for a while, just not as prominent as it is now with the virtual world.

Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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Pretty interesting. The second class of people will really struggle if there were to be any type of technological hardship. They cannot really produce anything. There will come a time most likely in the not to distant future where these people will have to fight for survival like everyone else and they will not have the skills.

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It just amazes me how many Millennials do not know how to change a tire, jump start a dead battery or start a lawn mower. Basic hand tools are completely foreign objects to them and they will not even touch a firearm. It is depressing how little they know about so many things most of us just take for granted. If the SHTF they will be lucky to survive a week.

Sully Dog said:

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Summary: We have a major class of people who mostly live in cities that have become detached from the physical world. They don't understand the consequences of their actions and have no concept of unintended consequences since anything can just be explained away through the information they digest on the screen.

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This is just stereotypical BS. I'm a software developer and have been for the better part of 30 years. I am in no way "detached" from the physical world other than my work interface being primarily a computer.

Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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Pretty interesting. The second class of people will really struggle if there were to be any type of technological hardship. They cannot really produce anything. There will come a time most likely in the not to distant future where these people will have to fight for survival like everyone else and they will not have the skills.

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I'm always interested in this trope. Just a different type of class warfare so I generally reject it. (I'm a liberal arts guy who works with my head all day, but I can shoot and grow and make and fix and build stuff.)

Truth is, practically everyone not already on a subsistence-style farm or close enough to steal one from the people who started it would be completely screwed if we lost our technological supports.

It's ironic how Trudeau went from calling it "a small, fringe group" (I'm paraphrasing) to invoking the Canada Emergencies Act.

As Ron Burgundy would say, "that escalated quickly"

It's a way to frame the cause: tendencies of certain personality types to think, behave, and employ themselves in certain ways. There are natural distributions that overlap, but people that have certain personality types are drawn to certain politics and certain types of work more than others.

javajaws said:

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Sully Dog said:

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Summary: We have a major class of people who mostly live in cities that have become detached from the physical world. They don't understand the consequences of their actions and have no concept of unintended consequences since anything can just be explained away through the information they digest on the screen.

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This is just stereotypical BS. I'm a software developer and have been for the better part of 30 years. I am in no way "detached" from the physical world other than my work interface being primarily a computer.

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you are probably not, especially if you are here, and at your age. but please give examples, because most people that are, don't realize it. that's really the point.

cbr said:

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javajaws said:

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Sully Dog said:

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Summary: We have a major class of people who mostly live in cities that have become detached from the physical world. They don't understand the consequences of their actions and have no concept of unintended consequences since anything can just be explained away through the information they digest on the screen.

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This is just stereotypical BS. I'm a software developer and have been for the better part of 30 years. I am in no way "detached" from the physical world other than my work interface being primarily a computer.

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you are probably not, especially if you are here, and at your age. but please give examples, because most people that are, don't realize it. that's really the point.

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You want me to give you my life's examples of how I am not detached from the physical world? Yeah, go f yourself.

Just had a long conversation with someone about this topic the other day.

The rise of the Creative Class or Knowledge Worker has certainly brought about enormous earning potential for more people. But it has also created a rise in people that don't really know anything about the real physical world.

I grew up on a farm and even though I'm a knowledge worker I still expose my children to that world and what I learned being in that world. But 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Gen urbanites and suburbanites where neither parent is blue collar working class really seem to struggle understanding the supply chain, how things get made, and how the real physical world works. Especially if those families don't even camp, hunt, and/or fish.

It's a little scary to be honest and absolutely part of the growing disconnect between rural and urban/suburban America.

I think its also why the populist wing of the GOP is making inroads to the minority working class American. The GOP has the small and medium size working class business owner and those owners in general have a good relationship with their workers and those two groups have more in common with each other than the exclusively knowledge based worker regardless of skin color.

javajaws said:

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Sully Dog said:

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Summary: We have a major class of people who mostly live in cities that have become detached from the physical world. They don't understand the consequences of their actions and have no concept of unintended consequences since anything can just be explained away through the information they digest on the screen.

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This is just stereotypical BS. I'm a software developer and have been for the better part of 30 years. I am in no way "detached" from the physical world other than my work interface being primarily a computer.

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I get your point and agree that there is an element of sterotyping involved here, but it's meant to be a framework for understanding the world around you. Oviously not every person fits into a frame work.

The counter example to you I would give is my wifes family in New York City. They all work in theory and consume the world around them through a screen and the NYTs. They have no understanding of how the world works outside of New York City.

They pontificate about glacial recession and global warming depsite the fact they've never seen a glacier in real life. They had never even been a pickup truck before or seen a cow up close until our wedding at my parents place. For them absolutely everything is theory. They absolutely believe that methane from cow farts is a major contributor to global warming.

First off this is a very true issue that is growing and going to continue to grow as AI and Machine Learning become more and more prevalent. It's a very real problem for people that don't realize the folly of becoming entirely dependent on technology and not living in the real world.

Second, this isn't something to be defensive about or accuse others of. Most people are somewhere in between with exposure to both worlds but long term that is becoming more divided. This is especially true of urbanites that are growing up in a world of Amazon delivery and Uber and Door Dash. There is just less and less need for them to go outside and interact and they only do so because they choose to.

Third, the key to this is finding balance and looking for opportunities. There are so many skilled jobs that are going to pay huge sums of money in the future as we have fewer people to meet rising demand. If you are used to having everything done for you then you are at the mercy of folks that can do those things if you aren't careful.

Sully Dog said:

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javajaws said:

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Sully Dog said:

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Summary: We have a major class of people who mostly live in cities that have become detached from the physical world. They don't understand the consequences of their actions and have no concept of unintended consequences since anything can just be explained away through the information they digest on the screen.

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This is just stereotypical BS. I'm a software developer and have been for the better part of 30 years. I am in no way "detached" from the physical world other than my work interface being primarily a computer.

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I get your point and agree that there is an element of sterotyping involved here, but it's meant to be a framework for understanding the world around you.

The counter example to you I would give is my wifes family in New York City. They all work in theory and consume the world around them through a screen and the NYTs. They have no understanding of how the world works outside of New York City.

They pontificate about glacial recession and global warming depsite the fact they've never seen a glacier in real life. They had never even been a pickup truck before or seen a cow up close until our wedding at my parents place. For them absolutely everything is theory. They absolutely believe that methane from cow farts is a major contributor to global warming.

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There are plenty of blue collar workers that don't have a CLUE about the real world outside of their jobs.

You know what is common to both white collar and blue collar workers? Social media and the echo chamber of the people/news they surround themselves with, that's what.

Fair enough. Now if you work at a major marketing company or social media company what reality do you have to base your world on?

javajaws said:

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cbr said:

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javajaws said:

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Sully Dog said:

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Summary: We have a major class of people who mostly live in cities that have become detached from the physical world. They don't understand the consequences of their actions and have no concept of unintended consequences since anything can just be explained away through the information they digest on the screen.

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This is just stereotypical BS. I'm a software developer and have been for the better part of 30 years. I am in no way "detached" from the physical world other than my work interface being primarily a computer.

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you are probably not, especially if you are here, and at your age. but please give examples, because most people that are, don't realize it. that's really the point.

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You want me to give you my life's examples of how I am not detached from the physical world? Yeah, go f yourself.

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you bulldoze into a thread with no information.

i politely fish for a 'can you skin a buck or run a trot line' style one liner.

you bulldoze back in here with '**** you' so, clearly you are detached. and from manners too.



so, tough guy, can you skin a buck, rebuild an AR, remodel a home, install a septic system, design and fabricate a race car, dock a yacht, fill a scuba tank and dive, fly a plane, weld up a broken trailer tongue, restore an old motorcycle, play a guitar, build a barbed wire fence, worm a cow, set a broken arm, saddle a horse, operate a track hoe, find your way back to camp in the mountains, build a fire, escape a mob, or anything like that?

plugging in your laptop, driving your honda to have someone change the oil, changing diapers, and hitting a little round golf ball doesnt count.

Let me try another point that maybe a little more applicable to both sides, and that's death.

Earlier this year I was driving a friend in her 30s home when we drove up on a motorcycle accident where the person obviously had injuried incompatible with life. We didn't see the accident or get within 75 yards of the guy, but my friend had a break down. She had made it to her mid-30s without ever seeing a dead person. This week she confided to me that she is now in therapy because of what happened.

It used to be that everyone in America had a solid understanding of what it meant to get really sick and die. Every family had a grandmother or great grandfather that would have to come live with the household and the family would have to take care of them until they passed.

Now we have a robust hospital and hospice system throughout the country where we send our grandparents to cross over the rainbow bridge. In most cases when someone goes to hospice there are only one or two family members who go to visit the dying member of the family. We literally outsource one of lifes most important moments.

You can grow up in this country without ever seeing death or knowing anything about it. How can people who have never known death ever be expected to make rational decisions about life, medical care, or end of life care? Furthermore, I think it makes it hard to make risk calculation about your own life. I would even argue that it makes it harder to understand the value of another persons life.

PaulC_80 said:

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Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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Pretty interesting. The second class of people will really struggle if there were to be any type of technological hardship. They cannot really produce anything. There will come a time most likely in the not to distant future where these people will have to fight for survival like everyone else and they will not have the skills.

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It just amazes me how many Millennials do not know how to change a tire, jump start a dead battery or start a lawn mower. Basic hand tools are completely foreign objects to them and they will not even touch a firearm. It is depressing how little they know about so many things most of us just take for granted. If the SHTF they will be lucky to survive a week.

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I was going to post something essentially the same. When you have highly educated 30 year olds earning mid six figures having to take adulting classes to learn how to do basic tasks then we are truly ****ed as a country/society.