Just read this: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10443093/US-Javelin-anti-tank-missiles-sent-Ukraine-200m-arms-package.html

and watch a lot of vids that show how vulnerable different vehicles, including tanks, seem to be to infantry-based weapons...

and drones...

What is the current thinking on armored vehicles?

Death before dismount.

Still pretty important but a lone solder today is more lethal against an armored vehicle than say WW2

Well my local white bread suburban town has 2 of em so they must be super duper important.

Well I think our ME wars have shown how you try to counter a superior armored force. With IEDs and infantry weapons in a covert or insurgency.

the javelins can be very effective in that way, my guess even more so in a urban environment.

DOD: you know all those MRAPS … yeah we gonna need those back

I bet the crew of that transport plane carrying the javelins had a pucker factor of X10.

Athanasius said:

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Just read this: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10443093/US-Javelin-anti-tank-missiles-sent-Ukraine-200m-arms-package.html

and watch a lot of vids that show how vulnerable different vehicles, including tanks, seem to be to infantry-based weapons...

and drones...

What is the current thinking on armored vehicles?

---

Vehicles have always been vulnerable to infantry based weapons, dating back to WWII at least. And they have always been vulnerable to aerial attack.

The Nazis developed weapons such as the Panzerfaust and Panzershreck, the US and Brits both had anti-tank rifles, the bazooka and the PIAT gun.

There will always be a need for armored support/attack/personnel carriers, they have a huge role today and will in the future.

And dismounted infantry are ALWAYS more at risk to indirect artillery fire. Rock, paper, scissors, deal. Some things never change, just the tools. Mechanized vehicles move quicker than dismounted infantry. Helicopters move quicker than mechanized vehicles. Lots of pieces on the modern battlefield. The folks who win know best how to employ ALL of them together at the right place and time.

I am afraid we got fewer guys that understand all this currently, though.

WBBQ74 said:

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And dismounted infantry are ALWAYS more at risk to indirect artillery fire. Rock, paper, scissors, deal. Some things never change, just the tools. Mechanized vehicles move quicker than dismounted infantry. Helicopters move quicker than mechanized vehicles. Lots of pieces on the modern battlefield. The folks who win know best how to employ ALL of them together at the right place and time.

I am afraid we got fewer guys that understand all this currently, though.

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Don't need them to understand tactics so long as they understand equity and reflect on White Supremacy.

schmellba99 said:

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Athanasius said:

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Just read this: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10443093/US-Javelin-anti-tank-missiles-sent-Ukraine-200m-arms-package.html

and watch a lot of vids that show how vulnerable different vehicles, including tanks, seem to be to infantry-based weapons...

and drones...

What is the current thinking on armored vehicles?

---

Vehicles have always been vulnerable to infantry based weapons, dating back to WWII at least. And they have always been vulnerable to aerial attack.

The Nazis developed weapons such as the Panzerfaust and Panzershreck, the US and Brits both had anti-tank rifles, the bazooka and the PIAT gun.

There will always be a need for armored support/attack/personnel carriers, they have a huge role today and will in the future.

---

Mobility and protection are still big factors in the modern battlefield and why fast, maneuverable vehicles like the 8 wheeled Stryker IAVs are becoming the trend going forward vs slower tracked APCs like the Bradley

Isn't our only Tank Division at Fort Bliss, Texas?

Yes but all heavy divisions have a tank component now and the 1st cav at Ft. Hood is armor heavy

19 Kilo.


Here.

I seem to recall Sgt Poynton teaching us in First Year Basic that the most dangerous enemy to a tank was an infantry soldier.

I don't know about armoires vehicles, but in TX it seems like most people out in their vehicles seem to consider a raindrop the most deadly substance a vehicle encounters

WBBQ74 said:

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And dismounted infantry are ALWAYS more at risk to indirect artillery fire. Rock, paper, scissors, deal. Some things never change, just the tools. Mechanized vehicles move quicker than dismounted infantry. Helicopters move quicker than mechanized vehicles. Lots of pieces on the modern battlefield. The folks who win know best how to employ ALL of them together at the right place and time.

I am afraid we got fewer guys that understand all this currently, though.

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I like the Rock Paper Scissors analogy. All the pieces on the chess board have significant vulnerabilities when operating alone.

lb3 said:

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WBBQ74 said:

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And dismounted infantry are ALWAYS more at risk to indirect artillery fire. Rock, paper, scissors, deal. Some things never change, just the tools. Mechanized vehicles move quicker than dismounted infantry. Helicopters move quicker than mechanized vehicles. Lots of pieces on the modern battlefield. The folks who win know best how to employ ALL of them together at the right place and time.

I am afraid we got fewer guys that understand all this currently, though.

---

I like the Rock Paper Scissors analogy. All the pieces on the chess board have significant vulnerabilities when operating alone.

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Exactly

Until we get some Starship Trooper type power armor dudes there is no one traditional weapon system/warfighter that can operate independently without significant vulnerability

They're so obsolete that we just leave thousands for our enemies when we leave a war zone

Loitering Munitions say hi.

$175K - Javelin missile (only not control unit)
$4.5 million - Russian T-90 main battle tank

That's calculus that works!

lb3 said:

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WBBQ74 said:

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And dismounted infantry are ALWAYS more at risk to indirect artillery fire. Rock, paper, scissors, deal. Some things never change, just the tools. Mechanized vehicles move quicker than dismounted infantry. Helicopters move quicker than mechanized vehicles. Lots of pieces on the modern battlefield. The folks who win know best how to employ ALL of them together at the right place and time.

I am afraid we got fewer guys that understand all this currently, though.

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I like the Rock Paper Scissors analogy. All the pieces on the chess board have significant vulnerabilities when operating alone.

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This

If you have a good S2 section, they will let you know when you can expect to enter the enemy's weapons band that contains armor and armored vehicle killing capabilities. You then kick the dismounts out the back and they move forward first with the Brads and tanks performing overwatch and support by fire duties.

If doctrine is followed and only strayed from when necessity dictates, you can move forward against an enemy with significant capabilities and expect to accomplish your mission with minimal losses. Of course, the enemy always has a vote.

BQ78 said:

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Death before dismount.

Still pretty important but a lone solder today is more lethal against an armored vehicle than say WW2

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Germans called town and cities "Panzer graveyards" because of infantry.

WBBQ74 said:

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And dismounted infantry are ALWAYS more at risk to indirect artillery fire. Rock, paper, scissors, deal. Some things never change, just the tools. Mechanized vehicles move quicker than dismounted infantry. Helicopters move quicker than mechanized vehicles. Lots of pieces on the modern battlefield. The folks who win know best how to employ ALL of them together at the right place and time.

I am afraid we got fewer guys that understand all this currently, though.

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Yeah...but 'those guys' are getting boo-coos of CRT and diversity training...so all is well, my friend. Sleep tight.

Armored vehicles are bullet catchers. They are great for close support or cover upon falling back. I always feel more comfortable with my boots on the ground.
I would rather ride 15 clicks and dismount than hump 15 clicks just to get there.
19D
Bradley Commander
SCOUTS OUT.

Now Main Battle Tanks are a different story. There is nothing more deadly on a battlefield than a reactive armor clad M1.

BQ78 said:

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Yes but all heavy divisions have a tank component now and the 1st cav at Ft. Hood is armor heavy

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Thank you for clarifying. I did not know that.

So, if we have to go back into Afghanistan and fight our old equipment….