We were told today by Oldfinger that he was forced to follow the agreement set up by Trump. I think it is time for the full agreement to be released for viewing by the general public. What we have now is the unclassified portion.

https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-For-Bringing-Peace-to-Afghanistan-02.29.20.pdf

There are a number of classified appendices and annexes within that agreement outlining the steps the Taliban had to meet to engage full American withdrawal from the country.

If Biden is telling the truth [As likely as Kamala Harris taking vows of chastity and entering a nunnery.], then we should be able to see exactly how the Taliban fulfilled the Doha Agreement compelling the American evacuation from Afghanistan.

There is no need for this agreement to remain partially classified. It is done and should be released.

It is funny how a man who wants to take credit for an "extraordinary success" in Afghanistan feels the need to blame his predecessor for this "extraordinary success."

He certainly wasn't blaming Trump in April of this year:

https://nypost.com/2021/04/25/harris-was-last-voice-in-the-room-for-afghanistan-withdrawal/

It was his decision. His withdrawal. His "extraordinary amount of courage" at work here.

Declassify the full Doha Agreement and let's see just how well this President implemented it and the Taliban complied with it after this traitor became POTUS.

I want to see the full agreement because Trump and the Right claim is was conditions based and the Taliban had broken their part of the agreement. According to what's been released, the Taliban was honoring the agreement.

The fact it hasn't been yet is all you need to know.

The only reasons dems need to classify things is to avoid embarrassment or to keep themselves out of prison.

Geez reading the public portion again pisses me off. This was an awful deal. We release 5000 Taliban prisoners but don't ask to get to have the American hostage released. WTF

Dan Scott said:

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I want to see the full agreement because Trump and the Right claim is was conditions based and the Taliban had broken their part of the agreement. According to what's been released, the Taliban was honoring the agreement.

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They attacked FOB Chapman in March.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/08/politics/taliban-attack-afghanistan-covert-base-biden-withdrawal-decision/index.html

Seems to me to represent a violation of Point 1 in the second part of the unclassified agreement.

Dan Scott said:

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I want to see the full agreement because Trump and the Right claim is was conditions based and the Taliban had broken their part of the agreement. According to what's been released, the Taliban was honoring the agreement.

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Yeah whatever you say. Your boy is scum. Sorry.

I think both Trump and GEN Miller made comments about the Taliban breaking thier agreements, problem is even the Taliban has rouge Toly Bon types that are still gonna rocket bases even if thier "leaders" said not to

Dan Scott said:

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Geez reading the public portion again pisses me off. This was an awful deal. We release 5000 Taliban prisoners but don't ask to get to have the American hostage released. WTF

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Not a fan of the release. But in order to secure a safe withdrawal, you need to negotiate a deal with the primary opposition. That was the Taliban.

Notice that the agreement did not include the following:

1. The stripping of contract maintenance and logistics support to the Afghan Air Force.

2. The stripping of contract logistics support to the Afghan Special Forces.

3. The stripping of contract logistics support to the Afghan National Army.

4. The unilateral retreat from Bagram and other key installations providing air support to the Afghan military.

We had a conditions-based withdrawal agreement at work here.

What conditions were met by the Taliban authorizing the withdrawal of American forces from Afghanistan?

I thought they already did.

Interesting. Didn't know that.

For arguments sake, can condition 1 be argued it's referring to the homeland United States and not necessarily a base in Afghanistan?

AG512 said:

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Dan Scott said:

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I want to see the full agreement because Trump and the Right claim is was conditions based and the Taliban had broken their part of the agreement. According to what's been released, the Taliban was honoring the agreement.

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Yeah whatever you say. Your boy is scum. Sorry.

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Come on man! You gotta believe that Tahleebahn!!!

I don't believe anything a politician tells me, especially on a hot topic. I think Trump is right that it's conditioned based because that just makes sense. I want to know what the condition were in the agreement.

Dan Scott said:

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Interesting. Didn't know that.

For arguments sake, can condition 1 be argued it's referring to the homeland United States and not necessarily a base in Afghanistan?

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They are attacking Americans and therefore threatening the security of the United States.

But let's be honest here. We have a President and White House whose entire approach to domestic and foreign policy is to do everything in the opposite of the Trump approach. We've seen Russia granted full permission to build the Nord Stream 2 pipeline. The Chinese have been given access of our electrical grid. The Iranians will soon be getting another tanker-load or three full of cash and permission to run roughshod all over the CENTCOM area of operations. These were all approaches taken precisely because they ran against the policy direction of the Trump Administration.

But here, in this particular case, they decided to stick with the Trump policy regarding the Doha Agreement?

You know better.

In his speech he says "I made the decision" then later tries to blame Trump. Which is it dumbass?

Stlkofta said:

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Dan Scott said:

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Interesting. Didn't know that.

For arguments sake, can condition 1 be argued it's referring to the homeland United States and not necessarily a base in Afghanistan?

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They are attacking Americans and therefore threatening the security of the United States.

But let's be honest here. We have a President and White House whose entire approach to domestic and foreign policy is to do everything in the opposite of the Trump approach. We've seen Russia granted full permission to build the Nord Stream 2 pipeline. The Chinese have been given access of our electrical grid. The Iranians will soon be getting another tanker-load or three full of cash and permission to run roughshod all over the CENTCOM area of operations. These were all approaches taken precisely because they ran against the policy direction of the Trump Administration.

But here, in this particular case, they decided to stick with the Trump policy regarding the Doha Agreement?

You know better.

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The difference being this is the only thing they both agree on. The exit turned into a cluster so naturally the other guy is saying he'd do it better. I want to know if the other conditions you mentioned are actually there like taking away air support or closing Bagram. In the public deal, it says out of all bases. And as you mentioned, what exactly did the Taliban do honor their part of agreement.

Dan Scott said:

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I don't believe anything a politician tells me, especially on a hot topic. I think Trump is right that it's conditioned based because that just makes sense. I want to know what the condition were in the agreement.

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Totally agree.

I look back to that April 13, 2021 announcement regarding the withdrawal date.
[url=https://www.wbur.org/news/2021/04/13/us-troops-biden-leave-afghanistan][/url]
https://www.wbur.org/news/2021/04/13/us-troops-biden-leave-afghanistan

Quote:

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"It's going to be hard to meet the May 1 deadline," Biden said in late March. "Just in terms of tactical reasons, it's hard to get those troops out." Tellingly, he added, "And if we leave, we're going to do so in a safe and orderly way."

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Fast forward to today's press conference...

Quote:

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The bottom line is, there is no evacuation from the end of a war that you can run without the kinds of complexities, challenges, threats we faced. None.

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Was there any assessment this President made in the months, weeks, and days leading up to this retreat that proved accurate or displayed any sense of situational awareness?

Everyone does realize that in order to remove all of the equipment we left there, it would have had to have been planned and extraction started under trump, right? Now, why they didn't destroy it.is perplexing. But to pretend like this is all just Biden's fault is just political, and I guess that game ahead to be played.

Withdrawal didn't seal Taliban rule. We spent billions arming and training the Afghan military to keep the Taliban in check and at the least to defend themselves. Then we pulled logistical and Intel support and drastically impaired their ability to do so. Biden said they planned for every contingency, so no doubt they planned for a rapid collapse of the Afghan military, right? And that plan was for the Taliban to capture all that equipment and leave Americans stranded there? The plan in that event should have been to have a force presence to stop the Taliban until Americans were removed and the equipment destroyed. What has happened was either gross incompetence on the part of this administration or intentional.

stetson said:

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Withdrawal didn't seal Taliban rule. We spent billions arming and training the Afghan military to keep the Taliban in check and at the least to defend themselves. Then we pulled logistical and Intel support and drastically impaired their ability to do so. Biden said they planned for every contingency, so no doubt they planned for a rapid collapse of the Afghan military, right? And that plan was for the Taliban to capture all that equipment and leave Americans stranded there? The plan in that event should have been to have a force presence to stop the Taliban until Americans were removed and the equipment destroyed. What has happened was either gross incompetence on the part of this administration or intentional.

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This is why President Biden is trying pin this "extraordinary success" on President Trump.

President Trump negotiated a conditions-based withdrawal with the Taliban as the primary enemy in the field.

President Biden negotiated the unconditional surrender of Afghanistan to the Taliban and placed the safety of Americans inside that nation in their hands as his allies.

That is a major difference. The fact their alliance with the Taliban failed is seen by how eager they are to blame Trump for the "extraordinary success" they created.

Let's see the Doha Agreement in full and get a look at where the state of play was supposed to be for an American withdrawal.

Imagine...
If there were 2 airfields in Afghanistan to evacuate people over 40 miles apart
If we made our enemy attack on 2 fronts
If we gave our citizens & allies 2 points to run to for escape
If we had a military airbase that we could help to defend the civilian airport
If we took vital electronic components from all vehicles
If we had a President that gave a damn

General Kenneth McKenzie told us yesterday what many of us already knew: Biden owns the Afghanistan surrender lock, stock, and stinking barrell.

There is a reason MSM will not cover General McKenzie's statement in full.

If you start the video at 27:09, then you will get the visual of what the former CDRCENTCOM stated below in the rough transcript provided by CSPAN:

Quote:

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I BRIEFED PRESIDENT TRUMP OUT A PLAN TO DEPART AFGHANISTAN ON THREE JUNE 2020. THIS PLAN ENVISIONED A COMPLETE WITHDRAWAL OF ALL OF OUR FORCES AND OUR DIPLOMATIC CITIZENS. ALSO CONTEMPLATED A POSSIBLE WITHDRAWAL OF AFGHANS WHO HAD SERVED WITH US. THE PLAN HAD A NUMBER OF OPTIONS BUT IT WAS THE FRAMEWORK FOR EVERYTHING THAT FOLLOWED. ULTIMATELY PRESIDENT TRUMP SELECTED A BRANCH OF THE PLAN A THAT MAINTAINED 2500 U.S. MILITARY PERSONNEL IN AFGHANISTAN BY INAUGURATION DAY IN JANUARY 2021. WE HAVE BRANCHES TO THAT PLAN TO COMPLETE A WITHDRAWAL BY MAY OF 2021 HAD WE BEEN SO ORDERED. ON 11 APRIL 2021 I RECEIVED ORDERS FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN TO THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE TO EXECUTE A FULL MILITARY WITHDRAWAL BY 11 SEPTEMBER 2021. DATE WAS SUBSEQUENTLY MODIFIED TO THE END OF AUGUST. THIS DECISION DID NOT INCLUDE THE WITHDRAWAL OF OUR EMBASSY, OUR CITIZENS AND AT RISK AFGHANS.

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So the withdrawal is entirely owned by Oldfinger and his merry band of terrorist appeasers in a way that is extremely familiar to those of us who remember the Obama days of Benghazi, ISIS, and Iran. We also see the fact the Biden Administration is so disconnected from what is taking place in Afghanistan that they don't even bother thinking about withdrawing non-US Military personnel and Afghan military/civilian assets.

CENTCOM had a plan for it. Apparently it didn't occur to anyone in the Biden White House or the State Department to bother asking them about it before they sought their desired September 11, 2021 Rose Garden Photo Op/Surrender Party.

This country cannot afford another four years of a 70s-era Democrat fossil giving up the ass to every enemy this nation has facing it.

When you combine the details of General McKenzie's statement with this...

Removal of logistical support for Afghan military began with Biden

...you have a pretty complete understanding of who actually screwed up in Afghanistan.

So here we have a President ordering the complete withdrawal of the military without even asking about a plan for evacuating American assets or Afghan allies, a President who intentionally removed the ability of the Afghan military to fight in the way we trained them to engage in combat. Given those factors, there is no doubt there was something more malevolent at work in that entire process from January 2021 onwards.

Claverack said:

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When you combine the details of General McKenzie's statement with this...

Removal of logistical support for Afghan military began with Biden

...you have a pretty complete understanding of who actually screwed up in Afghanistan.

So here we have a President ordering the complete withdrawal of the military without even asking about a plan for evacuating American assets or Afghan allies, a President who intentionally removed the ability of the Afghan military to fight in the way we trained them to engage in combat. Given those factors, there is no doubt there was something more malevolent at work in that entire process from January 2021 onwards.

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I will admit that Afghanistan sits extremely close to me. Enough that it is hard for me to stay objective or even talk about it really. But even with my very strong opinions on the matter, I still find it hard to believe that the debacle was purely intentional on our side. Even a select few puppet masters in the background. I still chalk it up to obscenely gross incompetence at the end of the day. Which doesn't excuse it of course but we ultimately ended up with a bunch of dreamers with real no attachment to reality who ended up in control of an unpopular and unwinnable war. Even after this hearing, I still think the fall came far, far faster than anyone with actual power expected at that time. I followed it minute to minute about a month out when Helmand province started to bend and even I was taken back by how quickly those southern provinces fell.

Ultimately, I think the administration just wanted to take their toys and go home and declare an easy win. They just didn't think it through or more likely, just didn't care to think it through. I think there was a healthy amount of arrogance on display by people who looked down on the Taliban and underestimated them completely. While the Taliban exploited that mindset and basically demonstrated a master class in how to take a country quickly and efficiently. For as bad as we did on the ground towards the end, the Taliban actually did pretty great on their end. The basically punched us in the mouth and kept doing so until the last plane took off. We f'ed up and they did not, which made our f'up even worse.

I mean sure, it's possible a scheme was cooked up to ensure what happened, happened. It's just easier for me to imagine it being sheer, almost unimaginable incompetence and arrogance of people who ended up in charge in the end. Occam's razor.

Eliminatus said:

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Claverack said:

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When you combine the details of General McKenzie's statement with this...

Removal of logistical support for Afghan military began with Biden

...you have a pretty complete understanding of who actually screwed up in Afghanistan.

So here we have a President ordering the complete withdrawal of the military without even asking about a plan for evacuating American assets or Afghan allies, a President who intentionally removed the ability of the Afghan military to fight in the way we trained them to engage in combat. Given those factors, there is no doubt there was something more malevolent at work in that entire process from January 2021 onwards.

---

I will admit that Afghanistan sits extremely close to me. Enough that it is hard for me to stay objective or even talk about it really. But even with my very strong opinions on the matter, I still find it hard to believe that the debacle was purely intentional on our side. Even a select few puppet masters in the background. I still chalk it up to obscenely gross incompetence at the end of the day. Which doesn't excuse it of course but we ultimately ended up with a bunch of dreamers with real no attachment to reality who ended up in control of an unpopular and unwinnable war. Even after this hearing, I still think the fall came far, far faster than anyone with actual power expected at that time. I followed it minute to minute about a month out when Helmand province started to bend and even I was taken back by how quickly those southern provinces fell.

Ultimately, I think the administration just wanted to take their toys and go home and declare an easy win. They just didn't think it through or more likely, just didn't care to think it through. I think there was a healthy amount of arrogance on display by people who looked down on the Taliban and underestimated them completely. While the Taliban exploited that mindset and basically demonstrated a master class in how to take a country quickly and efficiently. For as bad as we did on the ground towards the end, the Taliban actually did pretty great on their end. The basically punched us in the mouth and kept doing so until the last plane took off. We f'ed up and they did not, which made our f'up even worse.

I mean sure, it's possible a scheme was cooked up to ensure what happened, happened. It's just easier for me to imagine it being sheer, almost unimaginable incompetence and arrogance of people who ended up in charge in the end. Occam's razor.

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Cognitive dissonance

Eliminatus said:

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Claverack said:

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When you combine the details of General McKenzie's statement with this...

Removal of logistical support for Afghan military began with Biden

...you have a pretty complete understanding of who actually screwed up in Afghanistan.

So here we have a President ordering the complete withdrawal of the military without even asking about a plan for evacuating American assets or Afghan allies, a President who intentionally removed the ability of the Afghan military to fight in the way we trained them to engage in combat. Given those factors, there is no doubt there was something more malevolent at work in that entire process from January 2021 onwards.

---

I will admit that Afghanistan sits extremely close to me. Enough that it is hard for me to stay objective or even talk about it really. But even with my very strong opinions on the matter, I still find it hard to believe that the debacle was purely intentional on our side. Even a select few puppet masters in the background. I still chalk it up to obscenely gross incompetence at the end of the day. Which doesn't excuse it of course but we ultimately ended up with a bunch of dreamers with real no attachment to reality who ended up in control of an unpopular and unwinnable war. Even after this hearing, I still think the fall came far, far faster than anyone with actual power expected at that time. I followed it minute to minute about a month out when Helmand province started to bend and even I was taken back by how quickly those southern provinces fell.

Ultimately, I think the administration just wanted to take their toys and go home and declare an easy win. They just didn't think it through or more likely, just didn't care to think it through. I think there was a healthy amount of arrogance on display by people who looked down on the Taliban and underestimated them completely. While the Taliban exploited that mindset and basically demonstrated a master class in how to take a country quickly and efficiently. For as bad as we did on the ground towards the end, the Taliban actually did pretty great on their end. The basically punched us in the mouth and kept doing so until the last plane took off. We f'ed up and they did not, which made our f'up even worse.

I mean sure, it's possible a scheme was cooked up to ensure what happened, happened. It's just easier for me to imagine it being sheer, almost unimaginable incompetence and arrogance of people who ended up in charge in the end. Occam's razor.

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My guess is that, like a lot of things that occurred at the beginning of Biden's term, the main goal was just to stop doing EVERYTHING that Trump had been doing...Trump had troops in Afghanistan, by GOD we're going to NOT have troops in Afghanistan.

I don't think they thought the whole process through much more than that at the beginning.