TESTING THE FAITH

Bush: All religions pray to 'same God'
'That's what I believe. I believe Islam is a great religion that preaches peace'

Posted: October 7, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern

President George Bush has repeated his belief all religions, "whether they be Muslim, Christian, or any other religion, prays to the same God" – an assertion that caused outrage among evangelical leaders when he said it in November 2003.

Bush made the statement Friday in an interview with Al Arabiya reporter Elie Nakouzi.

Al Arabiya is Al Jazeerah's top competitor in the Mideast.

As the president and Nakouzi walked from the Oval Office to the Map Room in the White House residence, Nazouki asked, "But I want to tell you – and I hope this doesn't bother you at all – that in the Islamic world they think that President Bush is an enemy of Islam – that he wants to destroy their religion, what they believe in. Is that in any way true, Mr. President?"

"No, it's not," said Bush. "I've heard that, and it just shows [sic] to show a couple of things: One, that the radicals have done a good job of propagandizing. In other words, they've spread the word that this really isn't peaceful people versus radical people or terrorists, this is really about the America not liking Islam.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58026

Shows what he knows...

Geez.

I question if he is born-again. I do not see how he could be if he believes that tripe.

It's called diplomacy.

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I question if he is born-again.

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Wow.

If he is baptized than he is "born again."

what he said....

he is saved, but, wrong on this one.

Who is perfect?

Well ultimately you're all praying to a manifestation of Brahman, right?

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Wow.

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Well, I don't question his faith, but I do question his understanding of ME history, Christianity and Islam.

I would not, as a Christian, concede that Muslims are praying to the same God I am.

Well, he is a Methodist...

He is wrong. Being president does not exempt him from being in error theologically or otherwise.

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Well, he is a Methodist...

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Hey! I'm Methodist. And I know better than what he said.

Technically, he is correct. Anyone that prays to a single "god" is pretty much praying to the same God, we just differ on what we think He wants us to do.

It's like two kids arguing over what Dad said. "Dad said I could go first" "No he didn't he wanted me to go first".

They certainly aren't arguing over which Dad exists.

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Technically, he is correct. Anyone that prays to a single "god" is pretty much praying to the same God, we just differ on what we think He wants us to do.

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Not really. If you disagree a great deal on the nature of that God, you are not praying to the same entity.

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It's like two kids arguing over what Dad said. "Dad said I could go first" "No he didn't he wanted me to go first".

They certainly aren't arguing over which Dad exists.

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But that's not the entire nature of the debate.

Early Christians were Jews before they were Christians. Early Muslims were polytheists.

"Allah" is one of the gods they selected from their polytheism to serve as the God of Abraham in their religion.

However, they still pray to that Allah. The same God of Abraham.

Everything else is semantics. It's the singular God. I don't agree with anything they teach on Allah, as far as how he wishes us to live or to treat others. But you cannot deny we are arguing over the same God.

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However, they still pray to that Allah. The same God of Abraham.

Everything else is semantics. It's the singular God. I don't agree with anything they teach on Allah, as far as how he wishes us to live or to treat others. But you cannot deny we are arguing over the same God

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Muslims may very well believe or say that. I do not. Many Christians would not concede that to be the case.

Muhammed was not a Christian or Jew. There's no reason to believe, historically, he was anything but typical of Arabs at that time. A polytheist.

So there are two possibilities as I see it:

1) You believe Muhammed received revelations from God and rejected polytheism in favor of worship of the one true God, the God of Abraham. If you believe that, you're most like Muslim.

2) You don't believe Muhammed received any revelation from God at all. He wasn't a Christian or a Jew. Arabs at the time were largely polytheists and worshipped a host of gods. What became Allah was just one of those gods. There is no continuity between Muhammed and worship of the God of Abrahm. For 600 years Christianity and Judaism had existed while the people that became Muslims worshipped their many gods. And they continued to go back to them even after Muhammed's revelations (hence the Satanic Verses). If you believe that, and I think there is historical evidence for this, then Allah is not the same God I worship.

You're just sounding like a kid there. You can bring up all the back story you want. You and I believe in one single God. Muslims currently believe in one singular God. If, indeed there is one God, it's the same God we pray to.

I can go out and create my own religion, call myself the savior and make up any host of wild, outlandish beliefs, however if I believe in one God, and pray to him, even if I think he wants me to kill everyone, it's the same God. I would just have a different take on Him. Doesn't make me right, doesn't make me wrong.

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You're just sounding like a kid there. You can bring up all the back story you want.

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The backstory and evolution of the three religions are relevant, I think.

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You and I believe in one single God. Muslims currently believe in one singular God. If, indeed there is one God, it's the same God we pray to.

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This is just not the case. This is not as simple as getting the message wrong. This goes much deeper than that.

If I believe in a bunch of gods one day and the next day someone points to one of those gods and says he's the one Christians and Jews are worshipping and he has a new message I don't think it's fair to say it's the same entity.

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I can go out and create my own religion, call myself the savior and make up any host of wild, outlandish beliefs, however if I believe in one God, and pray to him, even if I think he wants me to kill everyone, it's the same God.

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Well, there's just no point arguing this. This is just absolutely not true.

If you don't understand why there's no point arguing further.

"I would say that they are Abrahamic only by virtue of the fact that Abraham was the father of Ishmael.

It is Ishmael they regard as the "Son of the Promise",not Isaac, as the Christians and the Jews believe.

They obviously do not believe as Abraham believed, either,or they would BE Christians or Jews."

This same argument is going on on the B&P, as you may know. I posted this there and I think it is apropos here. This is what I believe.

Got a link for that thread?

I don't know how to do links , sorry, but its on the first page of the business and politics board, about 12th or 13th down from the top of the page.
The thread is TxTarpon's and Ramadan is spelled Ramadon in the title.
Hope that helps.

I found it.

The Jews found Muhammed laughable. He had no knowledge of the Torah. His revelation fulfilled nothing in their Biblical tradition.

It's actually somewhat insulting to have a pagan/polytheist with no knowledge of your religion approach you and say that your God has given him a new revelation for you to follow.

Allah does not have a son named Jesus. Yahweh, or Jehovah, does have a son named Jesus. Allah promises Muslim men group sex in heaven. Yahweh does not. Not sure how they can be the same God.

Bush: All religions pray to 'same God'
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He said it and I believe it....wait a minute...he also said Iraq had WMD...wait, he is a Methodist.

The question of whether or not we worship the same God is much more complicated than many make it out to be.

On one level, our understanding of this God is very different. On the other, we both claim the God of Abraham.

I think what Mohammed did was syncretize himself a religion from whatever he had heard of the religions in his region, and use it for a massive power-grab.

I think you are right.

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If he is baptized than he is "born again."

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Baptism will not save your eternal soul.

Jews, Christians, and Muslims all trace their ancestry back to Abraham.

Jews and Christians trace their ancestry back to Isaac born of Abraham and his wife Sarah.

Muslims and the Arab people trace their ancestry back to Ishmael son of Abraham and Hagar, a surrogate maidservant.

To make things short- Hagar and Ishmael were sent to wonder the desert. According to the Muslim tradition, Muhammad was a descendant of Ishmael through his son Kedar. Muhammad and his followers converted Arabians and the religion of Islam was born. In addition the last 23 years of his life Muhammad reported receiving revelations from God. These revelations are known as the Qur'an, the basis of Islamic beliefs.

Although the Quran and Bible’s teachings differ greatly, both have reference to Abraham and his sons, therefore one could arrive at the conclusion that all 3 religions praise the same God of Abraham.

So technically Bush’s comments were not absurd, but many people seem to translate his comments as implying a relation to core beliefs of each religion.

The controversy comes from the viewpoint by Jews and Christians that Muhammad created a new religion of Islam and the view of Muslims that he was the restorer of the original religion.

Muslims praise Allah, an account of god provided by a man named Muhammad, which I personally believe is a skewed representation of the God of Abraham that Jews and Christians both acknowledge.

CS Lewis said pretty much the same thing.

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Well, he is a Methodist...

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For the record, there is no Methodist Church. We are the United Methodist Church, thank you very much!

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Jews, Christians, and Muslims all trace their ancestry back to Abraham.

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There is about a 2600 year time gap between Abraham and when the Muslims discovered Allah.

The Jews that knew Muhammed knew his claim was crap. he knew nothing of the torah and his religion fulfills nothing in the Biblical tradition.

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According to the Muslim tradition, Muhammad was a descendant of Ishmael through his son Kedar.

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Did you read my whole post, I also think that Muhammads claims are bogus and that his basic philosophy was to convert or kill, and that is still evident in Islam today.

But regardless, the Muslim community still believes their ancestors were decedents of Ishmael, even if their ancestors were really just random Arabs that Muhammad and his followers happen to convert and plant the Islamic seed that is evident in the ME today.

I do wish that the truth that we mention about Muhammad was better known in U.S. society and the world for that matter. But anyone in power who speaks out is immediately attacked, ie the pope recently claiming Islam was a religion spread by the sword.

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It's called diplomacy.

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Exactly.

equivication

When we say God, we mean the triune God that is full of love and mercy. A God that provided a sacrifice because none of ours were worthy enough.
His sacrifice for us atones/saves/delivers us from our own nature.

Allah is not so......