Thoughtful letters from one LDS family who set out to find the truth

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El Sid
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Here are excerpts from two letters sent by an LDS family to their friends and church leadership just a few months ago. The first is to their dear friends from the church.
quote:
Dear friends,

When someone leaves the church many questions arise and the rumors begin to fly. When that “someone” is an entire active, tithe paying, temple recommend holding family with a missionary in the field and they leave the church in one fell swoop, there is bound to be even more questions and confusion. The purpose of this communication is to allow you to opportunity (if you choose) to understand our reasons. You may not accept them, and we don’t expect you to, but we respect you enough to let you know directly the reasons for our departure.

Our family has been a part of the Salem __ Ward for 8 years and a part of the Salem Stake for over 13 years. We have had many good and positive associations with you. We have served each other, grown and progressed and shared our lives for many years. You have watched our lives change and our children grow up, we have watched your lives change and your children grow up as well. You are our friends; you are known to us and loved. Because of our respect and admiration for the good people you are, it is important for us to share with you personally our experience about why we have chosen to leave the church.

We have enclosed a copy of a letter we sent to Bishop _______ which outlines our reasons for leaving. If you are interested to know what happened to our family we invite you to read about our process. If you aren’t interested, please disregard. We just want to offer you to opportunity to know if you choose, directly from us.

Please know that we have been treated with the utmost regard and respect by the leadership of the church. We are grateful for that. It has been a very difficult and unexpected situation and the Bishop indicated he felt personal responsibility for failing our family. As we pondered our associations with you, we were concerned that some of you might also feel personal guilt or remorse because we have left. We send this letter with the intent to lay those fears to rest.

As in any family there are times when people don’t get along and toes get stepped on. We want you to know we understand that toe stepping goes both ways. Members of our family have certainly bruised some toes and we have had ours bruised as well. This is what happens in real families – be they our family of origin, our ward family, or any group we build community with. Understanding and misunderstanding are part of the process. We hurt; we heal; we move forward and learn more about ourselves, and others. It is still our belief that this is why we are here on earth - to experience, grow, learn – but mostly to love the way Jesus Christ does – without condition. And in the spirit of that love, we ask for forgiveness and offer forgiveness for any offenses between us.

* * *
And here is part of the attached letter to the Bishop:
quote:
Dear _____,

We appreciate you stopping by last Sunday with the letter acknowledging our family’s request for removal from the records of the church. We understand this situation has been difficult for you, other leadership, and friends we’ve associated with over the years. It’s not easy for us either. Even though our decision seems to come suddenly from out of nowhere, it’s really been many months, even years, in the making. We have studied, pondered and prayed over various new insights and information that ultimately led to our decision to part ways with LDS doctrines.

In no way should you, or any other leader, or member feel any sorrow, regret or guilt over any action or lack of action on your parts. We are responsible for ourselves and our actions. This decision was prompted by our own thoughts and feelings resulting from our own investigation into the history and doctrines of the LDS church. There isn’t anything you could have done, and no discussion with you beforehand would have kept us in the LDS faith. Your expression of personal failure on behalf of our decision is most distressing to us. While we have no control over your feelings of failure and guilt, we hope this letter can help put your mind to rest. We will be forwarding copies of this letter to various leaders, as well as our closest friends and associates. We are taking this action to make it very clear to everyone that our reasons for leaving the LDS faith have been our own, and guilt, or feelings of failure on anyone’s part have no merit in this situation.

As we have taught in Relief Society and High Priests over the years, we have had the opportunity to study in depth and increase our knowledge of the history of the church. With Tyler entering the mission field we have strove even harder to study and develop our spiritual natures. During the course of our studies we have learned there are holes and problems with many things in church history and the church’s doctrinal stands, especially regarding Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. These findings are significant because as Joseph Fielding Smith said, "Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground." Doctrines of Salvation, Page 188.

There are the revised, whitewashed, sanitized teachings of the church we receive in meetings on Sunday and then there’s the REAL history of the church found in the Journal of Discourses, historical documents, journals, church records, newspapers etc. With the advent of the Internet, primary source information is available from a variety of reliable sources. Our information doesn’t come from anti-Mormon sources, but actual members of the LDS faith – noted historians and researchers who have (or had) access to historical documentation and are trying to educate the people of the church about their own history. Nothing has been more embarrassing and disturbing than to find out how much we didn’t know about the history of our own church. Indeed many non-members know more about our history than we as members do! The second most embarrassing and disturbing thing we found is the number of dedicated, seeking scholars and intellectuals who have been excommunicated for nothing more than revealing truth from the church’s very own documentation and records. These are a few reasons we began to study and learn for ourselves.

We would refer you to a website called www.mormonthink.com. This is a site produced by active members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who have callings and are in good standing, who are concerned about the historical accuracy of the church and how it is being taught to its members and portrayed in the media. It is true there is a lot of misinformation on the LDS church presented by both critics and defenders of the faith – particularly on the Internet. Mormon Think presents both sides fairly and invites the reader to decide.

The scope of this letter isn’t suited to explain every issue we have, but the above website has many details which may help you understand why we have taken the path we have. But here are a few things to offer explanation in the meantime.
  • We were taught that Joseph Smith was visited by God and Jesus and have taught this in good faith to our children, and our son was teaching this to the people of North Carolina. Now we learn there are at least three additional contradictory Smith versions of the First Vision where only one angel appeared, or only the Lord appeared, or many angels appeared. If we were visited by Deity, it would make such an impression we would remember by whom and how many and tell the same story each time. The account of the First Vision currently taught by the church was the latest version revised and written by JS 18 years after it occurred. And if God and Jesus appeared to Joseph Smith and told him none of the churches were true and to join none of them, why did he join the Methodists? Why does the church teach a religious revival started in 1820, when it was actually 1823?
  • In 1966 papyri were found at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City and authenticated to be the very scrolls Joseph Smith claimed to translate into the Book of Abraham. JS claimed these papyri were written by the hand of Abraham himself but Egyptian scholars have proven they are common Egyptian funeral papyri dated centuries after the time of Abraham. Why does the church hide this fact from its members and continue to claim the book is of divine origin?
  • Why did Joseph Smith marry and have sex with 11 women who were married to other men at the same time, some of whom he married while the husbands were gone on missions where Smith sent them? Why did he marry young teenagers, including 14 year old Helen Mar Kimball, who had both parents and didn’t want to be married? Most of these are documented on the church’s own genealogy website at: www.familysearch.org (enter Joseph Smith, 1805 birth). Why did Smith practice polygamy in secret for 10 years before the D&C 132 ‘revelation’ which was to get Emma off his back? And why would God threaten to destroy a woman whose husband had been cheating on her and had broken her heart and soul?
  • Why did the church teach us that polygamy was for the support of widows and surplus single women, when there was actually a shortage of women? If it was for support, then why didn’t Smith provide support for his 33+ wives? Why did General Authorities keep sealing new polygamous marriages for at least 16 years after Wilford Woodruff’s Manifesto? Why would ranking priesthood use their authority to take other men’s wives or fiancés on a whim and then send them on missions or hurt them if they refused to give them over?
  • Many, who have searched extensively, can’t find any science supporting The Book of Mormon. Why is there no Israelite DNA evidence of Lamanites? Why does the morphology, anthropology, and archaeology all lead back to Siberia? The fact is that there is no Israelite DNA, only excuses for the lack thereof.
  • There is concrete evidence of Mayans, Incas, Aztecs, Olmecs, Toltecs, Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, Norse in Greenland, and hundreds of other civilizations. Where is any evidence of the civilizations of millions of people in The Book of Mormon? As far as “someday science will find,” science has expanded exponentially, especially with ground-penetrating radar and aerial surveillance, but the increasing finds of science all contradict The Book of Mormon.
  • In lake sediment cores, where are the durable pollen grains of wheat, barley, figs, grapes, or flax, or evidence of these plants mentioned in the Book of Mormon? Where is the evidence of metallurgy, steel swords or slag heaps, or coins and silk, chariots and wheels, or horses, elephants, asses, goats, sheep, pigs, and cows? Why is there impossible population growth in The Book of Mormon? Where is the geologic evidence of the physical upheavals in 3rd Nephi?
  • Why are there hundreds of anachronisms? Why does The Book of Mormon quote Isaiah before Isaiah was written? Why does it mention the word Bible a millennia before the Bible even existed? Why has The Book of Mormon preserved the errors in the King James translation such as ‘virgin’ for ‘young woman’? Why is the Greek word ‘Christ’ used and not the Israelite word ‘Messiah’?
  • Besides there being no evidence for things mentioned in The Book of Mormon, why does the book not mention things that really did exist in Mesoamerica, such as yams, beans, squash, llamas, sloths, jaguars, and monkeys? In the museums of South America there are thousands of artifacts of jaguars, monkeys, and llamas, but not a single horse, cow, elephant, or sheep.
  • Why are core doctrines such as three degrees of glory, eternal family sealings, and baptisms for the dead not included in this “most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion”?
  • Why have we never heard that Brigham Young preached Adam is God? (J.D. Vol. 1, p. 50) Or that BY said some people are so evil that Christ’s blood won’t atone for their sins and they must be killed and their own blood shed for their salvation? (J.D. Vol. 4, p. 215) Or that BY said a white man who marries a black should be killed on the spot according to the law of God and that it will always be that way? (J.D. Vol. 10, p. 104) Why does the church teach in the lesson manual that Brigham only had one wife and hides his 55 wives?
  • Regarding our core belief and Snow’s couplet “As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become,” why did Gordon B. Hinckley say that “I don’t know that we teach it…”? Why did Hinckley say polygamy is “not doctrinal” when it is in D&C 132, will be practiced in the Celestial Kingdom, and is currently practiced in temple sealings? (Don Lattin, religion editor, interviewing GBH, San Francisco Chronicle, Apr. 13, 1997. Time Magazine, Aug 4, 1997) We have gone back to the original transcripts and he was not truthful. We have been taught the above things in church. We have taught them to our children. Why would Hinckley deny that we do believe these things?
  • Why was the temple ceremony plagiarized from Masonry weeks after Smith became a Mason, and is not what was practiced in Solomon’s temple? And since Smith taught that temple covenants and ordinances are eternal and unchangeable, why have they been changed multiple times, including removal of the death oaths in 1990? When we look at the Mason ceremony next to the temple ceremony, especially before 1990, the similarities are too numerous to discount. We never wanted to be masons and participate in mason rituals. Why was an oath of vengeance against the nation placed in the temple ceremony by BY where it contributed to the slaughter of innocents at the Mountain Meadow Massacre?

When we discovered the depth and breadth of the falsehoods and deceptions the LDS church has foisted on us for over 30 years we could no longer remain. We explained these things to our children and watched our youngest two children cry for two days. “How can the church lie to us when they tell us to be honest?” That’s a very, very good question from little children. We’d like to know ourselves. The fact that our son was on a mission teaching these falsehoods was more than we could abide. We immediately booked a flight to go speak with him in North Carolina and let him know the changes occurring in our family.

Finding out that Tyler’s personal expense budget had been cut from $145 to $130 a month just that week was upsetting and made it all the easier to go see him in person, especially in light of the TWO BILLION DOLLAR mall expansion in SLC. When we arrived we saw he couldn’t afford more than basic foodstuffs and had no paper products or basic cleaning supplies in his apartment. (Why does Jesus Christ need a TWO BILLION DOLLAR mall?) We have since learned of an elder in California whose budget was cut from $120 to $100. He’s lost 30 pounds in six months. This is a travesty for young men whose families are paying for the privilege of giving two years of their lives. We feel that our tithing dollars have been misused and we wish we could get them back and donate to organizations that provide for the basic needs of God’s children around the world. Providing things like shelter, food, clean water and clothing to the needy should be the MAJOR mission of a church claiming to be “the TRUE church of Jesus Christ” - not spending BILLIONS to secure what smacks of dynastic real estate empires and corporate business. The church says, “No tithing was directly used.” The church is playing a shell game and tithe payers are the losers. Every dime they have is a result of the faithful tithes paid by members round the world, many who don’t have means for their basic needs but are required to pay anyway so they can be with their family forever.

When we arrived in North Carolina we spoke with Tyler of our concerns and told him we would like him to come home and study things out for himself. He was surprised by our visit but agreed to come home and study because he trusts us. He knows we would never embark on such a trip, or ask him to do something so unexpected and difficult without very good reasons to do so. There are many spiritual things that happened in the days before our visit that prepared Tyler to come home with us and we will share one. We had individually prayed without the other’s knowledge for him to receive a dream or witness that would allow him to feel peace with what was coming. He did have such a dream and it was very significant. He shared it with his companion in the hours before we arrived.
In our later discussions he told us that he was limited to reading only four books on his mission and forbidden to read Journal of Discourses. He said he was disappointed because he’d looked forward to in depth study on his mission hoping to strengthen his testimony. We would have been surprised about this information a couple months ago, but at this stage in our education about the church, we have found the J.D. to contain some of the most damning evidence against the unchanging nature of the gospel, the sacred calling of prophets and the restoration of anything remotely linked to Christ’s “One True” Church. It’s no wonder they don’t want people reading it, let alone missionaries!

_____, you might say we just need to have faith and that it can all be worked out at some future point. Faith cannot be sustained on falsehoods and deception. Faith is not sufficient when all tangible evidence contradicts the divine nature of the church. Thomas Edison said, "Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction--faith in fiction is a damnable false hope." We understand sacrifice in the name of faith…we have made many in the name of faith. But truth should never be laid upon the altar of sacrifice. If truth is sacrificed what is left? We refuse to sacrifice truth. There has been a flood of evidence that has produced many honest questions by members of the church. We have learned of members asking these questions and receiving an audience from the leading authorities in the LDS church without receiving any meaningful answers or replies to their valid questions. We are asking these same questions but we have figured out the answers ourselves: Joseph Smith was not a prophet of God, he was a clever man and may have had inspiration at times, but he was not a mouthpiece for God. The Book of Mormon is a created fictional text with some merit but it is not “the most correct book on the face of the earth.” Plain and simple, if Joseph Smith was not a prophet and the Book of Mormon is his created fiction – the LDS church is not what it claims to be.

Our questioning has led us to new ways of relating to God and his true nature, an understanding of how inspiration and revelation truly works in the lives of individuals, and the real meaning of God’s power.
You can read the rest here:

www.exmormon.org/boards/w-agora/view.php?bn=exmobb_recovery&key=1189057101&newest=1189086317

What an amazing family!

Despite what they wrote in their correspondence to family and friends, the church has since started to tell people that this family was living a lifestyle unapproved by the church! Their friends know better!

Although I can get frustrated interacting with Mormons here who seem to close their eyes to the facts, people like this family give me hope for Mormons as a whole.
Genesisag
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Wow! So proud they could not sign their name or identify their own ward? Yawn.
El Sid
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You didn't even read it.

Their identities are not secret.

p.s. I know their names, but I would not give them to you, Bob. There is no telling what you might do!

[This message has been edited by El Sid (edited 9/6/2007 9:47a).]
Seamaster
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Those are all good points GenesisAg.
groove
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Why are you spamming th board with this stuff. I am sure I could dig up any number of letters from "thoughtful Protestants" or "thoughtful Catholics" who decided their faith was bunk and left. Why don't you come up with something original for a change instead of your usual "fling enough mud in the hopes that some of it will stick"
Genesisag
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Sid -"p.s. I know their names, but I would not give them to you, Bob. There is no telling what you might do!"

You are truly laughable and pathetic. I would call their Stake President and bishop as I did the last time when a similar situation was posted on the board. As usual, an inactive family that had their letter written by one of the two-bit anti-Mormon ministries who specialize in these type of activities.

Anyway, as you should know, "many are called but few are chosen." And we do our own chosing by our faithfulness of lack there of.
redcrayon
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Good for them!
Guitarsoup
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quote:
Why don't you come up with something original for a change instead of your usual "fling enough mud in the hopes that some of it will stick"

Why don't you get your compadres to do the same?
El Sid
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First, ibmagg, this was not written for them by any antis or any ministry. In fact, this family seems to have sort of gone off the reservation right now as far as religion goes. They are really off exploring. This is not unusual for those who find out (after years of dedication) that they have been so badly deceived.

Perhaps you should take them at their word. Moreover, perhaps you should carefully read their letters.

My prayer for them is that they can still find Jesus Christ.
groove
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quote:
Why don't you get your compadres to do the same?


I can count several times when I have been critical of my "compadres" for unfairly going after other faiths. Most recently I was pretty critical of Genesisags approach on his Catholic confessional thread.

quote:
this was not written for them by any antis or any ministry.


While the list of mischaracterized "problems" looks like it was pulled straight from an anti-mormon tract, I wish anyone well who is searching. If they can find a better spirituality outside of the LDS faith so be it.
Genesisag
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Groove -You may have thought it was unfair but this was cause for national news. Can you imagine the uproar if such a large number of our members refused to follow such basic Church doctrine and refused to follow the Prophet's counsel?
NoACDamnit
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quote:
I would call their Stake President and bishop as I did the last time when a similar situation was posted on the board.


Ever considered minding your own business?

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Harry Potter just like the Smurfs and many other things are simply witchcraft made G Rated on the outside but underlying it is still witchcraft and is against the will of God.
El Sid
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I posted this for two reasons.

1) I thought people would be interested. It is thoughtful and well-written.

2) I thought that the obviously heartfelt and thoughtful nature of the letters might reach an LDS reader here. (Obviously, ibm didn't care to read it at all. He assumed the "apostate" was a rotten sinner, and he wants the scoop!)

CLWinNC
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groove- you're right. you did speak up about the tone of that thread.

i appreciate the way you've raised the tone of debate on the LDS threads especially.
05AG
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Simple question, why don't the LDS members of these boards ACTUALLY answer a question or even address it. All we ever get is well they are have a hidden agenda against the Mormon church etc. It's kinda of hard to convert us "non-believers" when we can't even get serious answers! Here is one I would really like a serious answer to.
quote:

Why have we never heard that Brigham Young preached Adam is God? (J.D. Vol. 1, p. 50) Or that BY said some people are so evil that Christ’s blood won’t atone for their sins and they must be killed and their own blood shed for their salvation? (J.D. Vol. 4, p. 215) Or that BY said a white man who marries a black should be killed on the spot according to the law of God and that it will always be that way?


_______________________________________________________
"You see character does count. For too long we have gotten by in a society that says the only thing right is to get by and the only thing wrong is to get caught. Character is doing what's right when nobody is looking. " -JC Watts
AGinHI
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quote:
I posted this for two reasons.

1) I thought people would be interested. It is thoughtful and well-written.

2) I thought that the obviously heartfelt and thoughtful nature of the letters might reach an LDS reader here.



Do you think people would be equally interested in a thoughtful and well-written post about why I left the Catholic Church after I set out to find the truth?

Would you also hope that by so posting in a "heartfelt and thoughtful nature" "the depth and breadth of the falsehoods and deceptions the [Catholic] church has foisted" on my family for generations that I might reach a Catholic reader here?

Would you think I am amazing? Would I too give you hope?

You're full of it.

I never thought I could not like people whom I have never met, but there are several people here who I just don't like.



quote:
It's kinda of hard to convert us "non-believers"


...and I'm not interested in converting anybody here.
El Sid
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AGinHI, I would be interested. This is, after all, the religion and philosophy forum!
El Sid
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Sorry you don't like me. I am not sure what I have ever done to offend you. Surely there is nothing offensive about this post, is there?
groove
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quote:
Simple question, why don't the LDS members of these boards ACTUALLY answer a question or even address it.


I believe I have answered a question -- sometimes more like an accusation -- or two. Just on this very thread I ttempted to explain the significance of the Mormon undergarment. Apparently this doesn't count as an "answer" unless it tacitly ties my faith to Satanism or some such.

quote:
It's kinda of hard to convert us "non-believers" when we can't even get serious answers!


I have no intention of "converting" anyone. Especially not on some internet message board. The best I can hope for is that readers on the board would feel okay about hiring an LDS employee or letting their kids play with LDS children without worrying that they are going to sprout horns.

Most LDS people feel that other Christian traditions ought to be their natural allies with regard to some of the moral issues facing society. Most are fairly shocked when they see these folks seriously suggesting that we are a pseudo "church"... or we actually deserve ridicule they dish out.

quote:
Here is one I would really like a serious answer to...


Maybe another time. I am about posted out today. The short answer is that's not what we believe.

[This message has been edited by groove (edited 9/6/2007 8:09p).]
Genesisag
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NoACDamnit -It became my business when they wish to go public and their letter is being used to try to take others with them.
Guitarsoup
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quote:

Do you think people would be equally interested in a thoughtful and well-written post about why I left the Catholic Church after I set out to find the truth?


I'd read it, and I bet you would get a lot of replies.

quote:
Most LDS people feel that other Christian traditions ought to be their natural allies with regard to some of the moral issues facing society.

You tend not to make allies when you declare that those churches are full or false doctrine. What about the old Mormon dramas about the Christian preachers working with Satan?
AGinHI
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quote:
Sorry you don't like me. I am not sure what I have ever done to offend you.


New posters may be unaware, others may not remember, but I have been here since you began posting about LDS and have not forgotten.


quote:
Surely there is nothing offensive about this post, is there?


Yes there is...it is called guile.






P.S. please don't remove that pic from your signature line.

"The actions of men are the best interpreters of their thoughts" - John Locke


Guitarsoup
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quote:
Yes there is...it is called guile.


The old Streetfighter character?

AGinHI
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quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you think people would be equally interested in a thoughtful and well-written post about why I left the Catholic Church after I set out to find the truth?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'd read it, and I bet you would get a lot of replies.


I would much rather share the many good experiences I had, but there would be none here to read them.

I would rather lift up than tear down. I respect the Catholics who frequent these forums and I have no desire in wounding the feelings of any, no matter how "interesting" my personal experiences may or may not be.

quote:
There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic. We believe our work should be our example to people. We have among us 475 souls - 30 families are Catholics and the rest are all Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs—all different religions. But they all come to our prayers.
- Mother Teresa


AGinHI
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lol
El Sid
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My sig is below.

It is humor intended to highlight the fact that the Book of Mormon claims there were horses in the new world when there were no such horses.

It is a spoof on a theory raised by Daniel C. Peterson that maybe the writers wrote "horses" to describe tapirs....in the context of warfare.

The picture skewers this argument. It shows a "Lamanite" on a Book of Mormon "horse" riding into battle.

If you have an ANSWER to the horse issue, I am all ears. Otherwise, I think my signature makes a very good point.



A horse is a horse, of course, of course, unless it's a Book of Mormon horse!
NoACDamnit
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quote:
It became my business when they wish to go public and their letter is being used to try to take others with them.


That isn't your business at all. What a hypocrite. You'll contact church members of someone who has written something that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with you but you won't even admit that you started posting under a new username after your last was banned.

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Harry Potter just like the Smurfs and many other things are simply witchcraft made G Rated on the outside but underlying it is still witchcraft and is against the will of God.
Genesisag
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NoACDamnit -If you want to lead people down your failed path by going public and its gets published on this board, I will make it my business. A slice of cheese can not be cut so fine that there is not two sides and I would find out the other side and give it the attention it should have. If you don't like it, tough stuff!
TxAgKuwait
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El Sid: I find it quite interesting that you have corresponded with that poster...whose initials are AG.....as I have too.

She and I had quite a discussion on goat raising a while back.

Keep up the good work.

And no, I won't give Bob her name and/or address either. And if he asks me for a phone number, I'll just tell him it is BR 549.
jeffdjohnson
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quote:
NoACDamnit -If you want to lead people down your failed path by going public and its gets published on this board, I will make it my business. A slice of cheese can not be cut so fine that there is not two sides and I would find out the other side and give it the attention it should have. If you don't like it, tough stuff!


What is accomplished by calling the Stake President and Bishop?
NoACDamnit
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quote:
If you want to lead people down your failed path by going public and its gets published on this board, I will make it my business. A slice of cheese can not be cut so fine that there is not two sides and I would find out the other side and give it the attention it should have. If you don't like it, tough stuff!


How very Christian of you ibm.

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Harry Potter just like the Smurfs and many other things are simply witchcraft made G Rated on the outside but underlying it is still witchcraft and is against the will of God.
Guitarsoup
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NoAC - he is a Mormon.
El Sid
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Jeff, he is hoping to learn personal "dirt" on the family who left the church. Maybe the mom drank hot tea. Maybe the dad missed his tithe in March 2003. Maybe the son watched an episode of cribs on his mission.

The point is that genesisag doesn't believe these thoughtful people rejected his church because they discovered the fraud. He is sure they must have been "sinning" and just couldn't cut it. So, he wants the "scoop" from the bishop.

It's his M.O.
Genesisag
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It is too bad that you don't understand if you wish to attack my Church publically as a former member, I want to know where you are coming from so that others may have the whole picture. If that is discomforting to you, well, that is the way it is.

I notice they have admitted they have stepped on peoples toes in the past and feel that some may have stepped on theirs. They want be the first that will have left because they got their feeling hurt. The list he gave to the Bishop is a standard laundry list published by a couple of the anti-Mormon ministries.
NoACDamnit
How long do you want to ignore this user?
If you wanted to know where someone was coming from, you should ask them instead of inserting yourself into a situation which is none of your business.

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Harry Potter just like the Smurfs and many other things are simply witchcraft made G Rated on the outside but underlying it is still witchcraft and is against the will of God.
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