Bishop Spong on Revelations

808 Views | 10 Replies | Last: 18 yr ago by Homsar
Macarthur
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I know many on here despise Spong, but I found this an interesting read:

I have never written about the Book of Revelation because I do not regard it as worthy of the kind of study that would be required to write about this book. I'm sorry it was included in the canon of the New Testament because it is so dated. It is a piece of apocalyptic literature written under a code developed by late 1st century Christians. Presumably the community that wrote this book and that received it would understand that it was designed to strengthen them to endure a persecution that was probably local, not empire wide, in the last decade of the 1st Christian century. It is a product of the same Johannine School that produced the Gospel of John and the Epistles of John in the New Testament though it is not by the same author. It probably does participate in the idea that the world is coming to an end soon but that was obviously a mistake since we are here now. In early Christianity there was an idea that the second coming of Jesus and the dawning of the Kingdom of God on earth would come in the lifetime of people living then. Paul advances this idea both in I Thessalonians and in I Corinthians. By the end of the 1st century that idea had begun to die out and was replaced by the suggestion that the church must be built for the long term. The book of Acts reflects this new consensus. The book of Revelation reflects a throwback to the earlier attitude and may have been inspired by the current local persecution that was interpreted as the beginning of the cruelty that would accompany the end of the world. In later years, when the supposed date of Jesus' birth was set and time counted from that day forward, end of the world talk has always accompanied the end of a century and was even more pronounced at the end of a millennium.
I have no truck with those who read the Bible this way. Predictions about the end of the world, talk about the "rapture" and "no child left behind" are all so much literal nonsense to me.

I have read the book of Revelation on several occasions. I studied it when I was in seminary, but in no great depth. Today I would rather spend my time on the gospels, Paul, or even the prophets, all of which have enriched my life greatly. I do not see such potential in the book of Revelation.

When one tries to interpret the symbols as Mr. Redel does in his letter, he falls into the trap of assuming that there is some literal truth that needs to be discovered. That is not the case. If all the copies of the book of Revelation were lost tomorrow, I do not believe much of value would disappear. However, it does keep some religious fanatics busy so maybe that is its primary purpose.

Thank you for your letter.

-- John Shelby Spong
Homsar
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
If all the copies of the book of Revelation were lost tomorrow, I do not believe much of value would disappear.

Wow.
Win At Life
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
It is a product of the same Johannine School that produced the Gospel of John and the Epistles of John in the New Testament though it is not by the same author.


Granted, there is some uncertainty about John’s authorship of Revelations, but most give it the benefit of the doubt unless. He seems convinced it’s not even though the evidence for the Apostle’s authorship are greater than the evidence against.

quote:
persecution that was probably local, not empire wide, in the last decade of the 1st Christian century.


Here he also assumes an AD 90 writing of Revelation, which is probably the most widely held view, but before dismissing it as he does, he should consider the evidence for a pre-AD 70 writing of Revelation.

quote:
It probably does participate in the idea that the world is coming to an end soon but that was obviously a mistake since we are here now.


*update* Soon for the Jews who came out of egypt was about 400 years, so John doesn't know how to interpret scripture from scripture.

quote:
"no child left behind"


Wow! The guy can’t even keep writings from the Apostle John separate in his head from Hillary Clinton.


[This message has been edited by Win At Life (edited 4/13/2007 3:51p).]
Cyprian
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Johnny talks like he's a big tough man who has all the answers, but he's a big softie when it comes to hard analysis and looking past his rhetoric.
Guadaloop474
How long do you want to ignore this user?


Dr. Scott Hahn does the best explanation of the Book of Revelation, from a Calvinist Catholic perspective.
Frankenstein
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Spong is likely the dark one himself, given all the damage he and his followers have wrought.

EDIT: It occurred to me that accusing a bishop of being satan incarnate is an ill-advised thing to do right after hitting submit.

However, I cannot shake the feeling that he's got some hidden ulterior motive. He has all but condemned TEC.

[This message has been edited by Frankenstein (edited 4/14/2007 11:36p).]
Guadaloop474
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I think I saw him at A&M way back when. If I remember correctly, he lost me when he said that "life begins at birth. If you don't believe me, just ask the IRS." I thought then, and still do, that that was a strange thing for a clergyman to say.
discobrob
How long do you want to ignore this user?
i watched a lecture he did at a local church in louisville. he refuted the virgin birth and the deity of Christ. he said people back then weren't as learned as we are today, and had to explain things they didn't understand by miraculous language. he said we that now we know that a virgin birth is ridiculous and etc etc etc. he also refuted the atonement. yikes.
Frankenstein
How long do you want to ignore this user?
he has also stated that the resurrection never happened, and there is no nobility in the sacrifice of the crucifixion.

Spong is a real crud.
yesno
How long do you want to ignore this user?
This is nothing new under the Sun: Amillennialism
BQ Mole Man
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
Spong is a real crud.

And yet he has never been called to the carpet by his fellow bishops. He is the perfect illustration of how the Faith can be gravely undermined by lack of authority (both in teaching and in discipline).
Homsar
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
And yet he has never been called to the carpet by his fellow bishops.

Because his 'church; has been relegated to a hierarchy and a bunch of buildings.

quote:
He is the perfect illustration of how the Faith can be gravely undermined by lack of authority (both in teaching and in discipline).

I agree if you capitalize the "A" in "authority".
Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.