Would it Matter if Jesus was Married?

551 Views | 35 Replies | Last: 19 yr ago by McNasty
Apetree
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He is still the Savior, still the "Word", and still part of the Trinity.

From a Christian perspective would it matter if Jesus had married?

Also, could someone explain a brief history of the gnostics?


Homsar
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No, it would not matter. However, he happened to not take a wife.
Dad
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I think it would not matter if he was married and that was how the story was told in the bible.

It would matter, IMO, if he was married and had kids and there was this great attempt to cover it up. It would make me question other facts about his life from the bible.
Macarthur
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It probably would not have mattered in the big picture. However, I think the big difference in the church would have been the influence and importance of women. Christianity has always treated women as second class citizens, especially in the church (Jesus did not harbor this treatment of women, by the way).

I think the jist of this Da Vinci stuff is to try and paint Jesus' stance on women and the Mary stuff kinda supports this. I think the makeup of the church would have been much different had women been an integral part.
opk
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Would it Matter if Jesus was Married?

Not as long as she's a nice Jewish girl.






.....sorry. I couldn't resist.
Homsar
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well-played opk
Homsar
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quote:
It would matter, IMO, if he was married and had kids and there was this great attempt to cover it up. It would make me question other facts about his life from the bible.

Do you believe there may be a cover-up?

Christian Pulisic FanBoy
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The odds of Jesus not being married are slim to none. If he was the son of God, his children and descendants would be divine as well, and they would have a pretty hard time living up to dear ol' dad.

Dad walked on water, what did you do?

Mule_lx
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quote:
.....sorry. I couldn't resist.

please don't, you throw some great ones out from time to time.
Mule_lx
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The vatican is making such a big deal about the da vinci code, I should write a book saying that Jesus was in a gay marriage. I'd be a billionaire from all the free publicity I'd get from the church.
ramblin_ag02
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quote:
It probably would not have mattered in the big picture. However, I think the big difference in the church would have been the influence and importance of women. Christianity has always treated women as second class citizens, especially in the church (Jesus did not harbor this treatment of women, by the way).


Interesting take on it. It seems to me that the exact opposite would be true. If they were married to Mary Magdalene, then we would have a convenient reason to downplay her involvement in the Gospels. After all, they couldn't just leave her out completely.

If he was married to someone else, then it would mean that they didn't think his wife was worth mentioning. To me that would be even more insulting to women.

I think the Gospel account is the most respectful to women of these possibilities. We know Mary Magdelene traveled with Jesus, and we know they were very close. To me, this shows that Jesus valued her as both a pupil and a friend without any regard to her gender. I always thought that disregarding of gender was the whole point of feminism.
Mule_lx
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quote:
without any regard to her gender.

Let's be honest here, everyone always regards gender even if it is a subconscious thought. I bet Jesus checked out those...


[This message has been edited by Mule_lx (edited 5/22/2006 4:06p).]
Bird Poo
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One of the major reasons to get married is to have children; and if Jesus did have children, would they not be divine?

The idea is contradictory because he came to save us. He leaves the "be fruitful, multiply" for us to do. It would matter if he were married.
Dad
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quote:
Do you believe there may be a cover-up?
No, but my point is that the cover-up in The Da Vinci code was a bigger deal than the fact that Jesus was married. It meant that the bible told us the story as this group in 300 a.d. wanted us to be told and it would make you question everything from his story such as whether he was just a man or God.
Homsar
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And where do you stand on the question of Jesus' divinity?
BTHOB
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If Jesus had children, I do not believe they would necessarily be divine.

Jesus was both God and man. This duality provides for different possibilities. Let us assume that Jesus had children. The question becomes, "How were those children conceived?"

If Jesus' children were conceived in the same way Jesus was conceived (without sex), then a strong argument could be made that the children, too, would have divine qualities.

However, if Jesus' children were conceived naturally, then I believe that the part of Jesus that was Man would be passed down to the children and they would be 100% "Man" as opposed to being partly divine.
Mule_lx
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Because you've conducted breeding experiments with deities? We have a regular Gregor Mendel for the gods!
Dad
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I think his children would be giants. Andre the Giant was the last of the line.
Mule_lx
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Andre ruled
opk
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jynx! That you?
McNasty
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quote:
To me, this shows that Jesus valued her as both a pupil and a friend without any regard to her gender.


Then why was she not considered 1 of the 12 (or 13) disciples? When it comes to the attitude towards women, it seems that the New Testament was a regression from the Old Testament. Any thoughts?
ramblin_ag02
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quote:
Then why was she not considered 1 of the 12 (or 13) disciples?


I have no idea. You'll have to ask the guy who picked them when you get the chance. It is still possible that she was one of the 70, but we have no way to really know.

quote:
When it comes to the attitude towards women, it seems that the New Testament was a regression from the Old Testament. Any thoughts?


Considering Mother Mary, Mary his pupil, Lydia, and all the other women given as examples to believers, I will have to disagree.
Guadaloop474
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Yes, it would matter. Tradition says that Jesus was celibate. The DaVinci Code and Opie say different. I go with Tradition.
Homsar
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quote:
When it comes to the attitude towards women, it seems that the New Testament was a regression from the Old Testament. Any thoughts?

Galatians 3:28- "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
Losman
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texasag73

Slavery was a tradition at one time......
94chem
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Macarthur said:

quote:
Christianity has always treated women as second class citizens,


Poll question:

Is macarthur:
a) ignorant of history
b) blinded by his own hate
c) deliberately spreading lies

I honestly can't pick. I'd guess b), but elements of a) and c) may also be present.
Macarthur
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So are you saying Christianity, especially the church, has treaded women as an equal to man?

This was taken from religioustolerance.org:

As stated in our menu on the status of women in the Bible, women were considered as property through much of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). Jesus later preached a revolutionary message: the equal status and worth of women. He demonstrated this concept throughout his ministry. Paul continued this tradition in the very early days of Christianity. But sections of the Christian Scriptures (New Testament), that are believed by many to have been written in Paul's name long after his death, show that later church leaders gradually lowered the status of women towards its level before Christ's ministry.

Some of the great leaders of the Christian church continued this trend of denigrating women.




Church leaders and commentators, prior to the 20th century:
St. Tertullian (about 155 to 225 CE):

"Do you not know that you are each an Eve? The sentence of God on this sex of yours lives in this age: the guilt must of necessity live too. You are the Devil's gateway: You are the unsealer of the forbidden tree: You are the first deserter of the divine law: You are she who persuaded him whom the devil was not valiant enough to attack. You destroyed so easily God's image, man. On account of your desert even the Son of God had to die." 1,2

St. Augustine of Hippo (354 to 430 CE). He wrote to a friend:

"What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman......I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function of bearing children." 10

St. Thomas Aquinas (1225 to 1274 CE):

"As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence."

Martin Luther (1483 to 1546):

"If they [women] become tired or even die, that does not matter. Let them die in childbirth, that's why they are there." 9

Matilda Josyln Gage, et. al, "1876 Declaration of Rights" on the rights of women.

"...we declare our faith in the principles of self-government; our full equality with man in natural rights; that woman was made first for her own happiness, with the absolute right to herself - to all the opportunities and advantages life affords for her complete development; and we deny that dogma of the centuries, incorporated in the codes of nations - that woman was made for man - her best interests, in all cases, to be sacrificed to his will. We ask of our rulers, at this hour, no special favors, no special privileges, no special legislation. We ask justice, we ask equality, we ask that all the civil and political rights that belong to citizens of the United States, be guaranteed to us and our daughters forever.6



20th century writings/sayings on the role of women:
Reformation Fellowship of the East Valley, Mesa, AZ (circa 1995)

"In the beginning God made man male and female. He made Adam first, and then made Eve from Adam's rib. This order of creation subordinates wives to their husbands in marriage, and women to men in the church. As an act of submission to their Creator women are commanded to submit to their husbands and to male leadership in the church. Women are not allowed to teach or have authority over men in any formal capacity in the church." 3

Pope John Paul II (1995)

"Woman's identity cannot consist in being a copy of man, since she is endowed with her own qualities and prerogatives, which give her a particular uniqueness that is always to be fostered and encouraged... To all in our age who offer selfish models for affirming the feminine personality, the luminous and holy figure of the Lord's Mother shows how only by self-giving and self-forgetfulness towards others is it possible to attain authentic fulfillment of the divine plan for one's own life." 4

Statement by "Christians for Biblical Equality" a conservative Christian organization

"...the Bible, properly interpreted, teaches the fundamental equality of men and women of all racial and ethnic groups, all economic classes, and all age groups, based on the teachings of scripture as reflected in Galatians 3:28: 'There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.' " 7

Jerry Falwell

"Most of these feminists are radical, frustrated lesbians, many of them, and man-haters, and failures in their relationships with men, and who have declared war on the male gender. The Biblical condemnation of feminism has to do with its radical philosophy and goals. That's the bottom line.

The Council on Biblical Manhood & Womanhood (1997)

"...God, by creating Adam first (Gen. 2:18; 1 Cor. 11:8) and also by creating woman for man (Gen. 2:18,20,22; 1 Cor. 11:9), has set the gender-based role and responsibility of males in the most basic unit of society (the family) to be that of leader, provider and self-sacrificial protector (also cf. Eph. 5:25; 1 Peter 3:7), and likewise has set the gender-based role and responsibility of females to be that of help and nurture (Gen. 2:18) and life-giving (Gen. 3:20) under male leadership and protection (cf. 1 Peter 3:7)..." 8

Randall Terry, head of Operation Rescue

"...make dads the godly leaders [of the family] with the women in submission, raising kids for the glory of God."

Unitarian Universalist Association: statement of principles and purposes. This faith group had been classified as a Christian denomination in past years. By 1999, only about 25% of its members regard themselves as Christian.

"The Association declares and affirms its special responsibility, and that of its member societies and organizations, to promote the full participation of persons in all of its and their activities and in the full range of human endeavor without regard to race, color, sex, disability, affectional or sexual orientation, age, or national origin and without requiring adherence to any particular interpretation of religion or to any particular religious belief or creed."

Anon, "Why women need freedom from religion," pamphlet 5

"The various Christian churches fought tooth and nail against the advancement of women, opposing everything from women's right to speak in public, to the use of anesthesia in childbirth...and woman's suffrage. Today the most organized and formidable opponent of women's social, economic and sexual rights remains organized religion. Religionists defeated the Equal Rights Amendment. Religious fanatics and bullies are currently engaged in an outright war of terrorism and harassment against women who have abortions and the medical staff which serves them."



[This message has been edited by Macarthur (edited 5/23/2006 10:33a).]
Apetree
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quote:
So are you saying Christianity, especially the church, has treaded women as an equal to man?



Christianity..yes!

If by "church" you mean the Roman Catholic Church, then no.

Macarthur
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I think my point is, supported by the above post, Jesus very much treated women equal, but Christianity did not.
94chem
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Okay then, b) it is. This means that I owe you no rational explanation, but for the sake of others who are reading, consider:

--Paul said that it is good for a man not to marry, but because there is so much immorality, it is good for each man to have his own wife. In the Greek, this clearly refers to sexual contact. Jesus did not have this problem with immorality; there was no reason for him to be married.

--Jesus makes no mention of his wife while on the cross. He points out his mother, but his wife - no. Who would you make sure got cared for if you were hanging on a cross?

--Would you marry someone if you knew you had only 3 years for ministry and that it would end in your public execution?

--Paul states that it is okay to take a Godly wife, such as Peter did. Now, if Paul were looking for an example of marriage, don't you think he would've mentioned Jesus as "Exhibit A"?

--In all of the gospel accounts, WOMEN were the first to discover the empty tomb. Since ROMANS and JEWS did not even allow their testimony in court, it is interesting that the Christian writers told the story this way. I mean, who would believe a woman? The point is, the gospel writers weren't hiding anything, or they would've certainly changed this detail. Yet, among all those women, no mention of Jesus' wife...
AgGermany
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Jesus is married. His bride is the church. This is a spiritual ideal, "physical" marriage between a man and woman are even "below" the Spiritual ideal. It is what marriage should teach people.

People who do not fear God cannot make sense of women's roles and foolishly long to finding notions of unfairness in what the Bible states.
Spirit of Aggieland
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quote:
Jesus is married. His bride is the church.


Very good AgGermany!
muster ag
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quote:
People who do not fear God cannot make sense of women's roles


Good luck with that one. Can I use that when I tell my wife to go make me a sammich? I wonder what that would get me?
Macarthur
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So, chem94, I ask again, do you think the church and many of the figureheads (outside of Jesus) of Christianity for the last 2000 years have treated women equally?
Karrde
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quote:
Yes, it would matter. Tradition says that Jesus was celibate. The DaVinci Code and Opie say different. I go with Tradition.


Why does it matter? Does "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" mean something different depending on whether or not Jesus was married? Is there anything that Jesus taught which would somehow be negated if he had a wife?

If Jesus happened to be married, I don't think it makes any of his teaching any less important, or any less valid. It's a complete non-issue on that front.
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